accuracy question for deer hunting
 

I have a savage 110 with a pentax scope. I sighted this gun in at 100 yards using a lead sled. I can't see to get this gun to shoot any better than this target.

My question is, could this be the ammo i am using? its a 7mm-08 using standard Winchester 140 XP2 bullets. Could ammo make this big of a difference or should i be looking at something else.

the gun has been cleaned etc.... any ideas?

I believe this is probably accurate enough to hunt with but my other rifles are right on.

It's probably accurate enough for 150 yards, but it wouldn't be accurate enough for me. Did you try any different ammo. My Savage 111 30-06 LOVES Winchester 150 grain Power Points. Sub-MOA all day. What you might try is to loosen the action screws front and rear, then stand the rifle on the buttstock to make sure the recoil lug is firmly back against the stock. Then tighten the front screw finger snug, then the rear screw snug. Then give the front screw another 1/2 turn or so, and the back screw 1/4 turn. This is what I did when I had a strange accuracy problem with mine. Turns out that I didn't seat the action into the stock after removing the stock to adjust the Accutrigger.

Mike

Thank you, i hate to ask but where are the action screws? i don't usually screw around with my guns. sorry, this may be a dumb question but i want to do this correctly.

semi, First, do you rest the barrel or the stock on the Lead Sled? Supporting the barrel instead of the stock on the rest can cause this problem. If not, I would try another manufacturers ammo first before going any further. Quite often, a firearm may not like a specific load. Stay with the same grain bullet and see if this tightens up your group.

no, i have the walnut on the sled and the barrel is free from the rest. using a standard vice for sighting.

i am hoping its ammo. i just wasn't sure if ammo could make this BIG of a group.

What do you mean vice? If you are using a led sled then why do you also have a vice?

sorry, didn't mean vice, meant where the stock sits. Bad choice of words.

Are you moving the scope turrets after each shot?

Check the bases and rings to make sure their tight. Could be that the gun don't like the load but you should be getting much tighter group from a Savage. I'd also check the action screws.

yes adjustments are being made after each shot based on the previous shot. Gun keeps wanting to go to the right.

The rings and bases are the cheap ones i got with the savage package. I did replace the scope however. I checked those and they are tight thou.

Shoot 3 shot groups. Allow the barrel to cool between shots. If you don't get a group that makes sense with 3 shots, it's pointless to adjust the scope. It may be ammo, but it's impossible to tell because you've made adjustments based on limited info.

I agree, take at least 2 - 3 shots after each adjustment. The scope may need to recoil to stabilize after the adjustment.

First, you've been given some excellent advice above. Make sure the gun is properly assembled and that the scope and rings are tight.

Next, remember there is no such thing as an "accurate" gun, accuracy is a product of consistency. A rifle that places rounds in a consistent place can simply be adjusted to be accurate (in others words, to hit where the sights indicate it should hit).

If the rifle is inconsistent, in other words it disperses shots widely, then you have a different problem and different possible solutions.

OK, the first thing I would try is to buy 2 different types of ammo.

Then, fire a 5 shot group with each of the 2 new brands. DO NOT adjust the scope between rounds, just fire 5 shots with Brand X and 5 shots with Brand Y. Don't cheap out and fire just 3 shots, this can give you inconclusive results. Fire slowly and let the barrel cool a little between rounds. Take your time.

What you're looking for is the ammo brand that places the rounds in the tightest group. At this point it doesn't matter if they're 5 inches right or whatever, as long as they're all in an acceptably tight group and all about 5 inches right.

What usually happens is that you'll see that one brand is noticeably more consistent than the other. In other words, one brand will have all shots inside of about a tennis ball where the other will be shooting about a softball size group.

Stick with the most consistent brand and NOW you can start making scope adjustments. Move your scope and then fire 3 rounds. Make fine adjustments. If you think you need to move 5 inches left, for example, start by only moving 3 inches. Confirm your adjustments are producing the intended result, don't "chase" by making large adjustments all at once.

BTW, this may seem obvious but I just have to say it: Make sure you're adjusting your scope in the correct direction. Let's say your 5 shot group is 5 inches to the right of the center. Then you want to adjust your scope to the left. Sorry, I just had to mention this on the off chance you might be confused because I've seen this happen.

Good luck.

Grouse

i thank you for all the advice. This is kind of how i sighted the gun in. I had assistance from the range master. You will see on the graphic that we did do 3 shot groups and they were all over the place. This was with one type of ammo thou. I know i said i adjusted after every shot, i meant every 3 shot group. If you look at the graphic you will see triangles. Each triangle was one group, then an adjustment was made.

Yes, I would definitely try different ammo then. As I said, buy 2 different brands of ammo and fire an initial 5 shot group at separate targets.

In general, I would expect most modern rifles to do far better than the groups you're shooting now. If you were shooting handloads, I'd have all kinds of ideas as to what is causing this scattering, but with factory ammo your best bet is to change brands.

Grouse

Whoa!
 

something aint workin right there!!!

try some different ammo, work up some hand loads. I've been shooting Savage Rifles for over 40 years and never seen that!

I absolutely agree with this and with what UncleNorby wrote. For all you know you might have mashed the trigger when you shot your second shot... and having dialed in rifles professionally (I know its retarded.... but for $50 plus ammo sales.... you'd do it too...) for several years.... you can pull shots on a lead sled.

Honestly, if it were me.... I'd get you a good set of sandbags and get away from the sled. I have seen more than one rifle damaged by them (one of them was mine... and it was a 7mm-08 too.... cracked the stock on my Encore). And while I didn't used to believe it... the gun needs the give of your shoulder in order to shoot correctly... and no matter how you slice it... unless you are carrying a lead sled with you hunting (have fun with that!) then you need to shoot it off your shoulder anyway.

I'd look at two other makes of ammo on very opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm honestly kinda suprised it didn't like the 140 PPs.... most guns will at least shoot them decently.... check out Fed Premium 140 Nosler Ballistic Tips.... I hate fed shotgun shells... but their rifle ammo is awesome. Also, give a try to some of the Hornady Light Mag 139s.... Innerloks or SSTs... your choice.

Good luck.

Need to start over.



Re-mount your scope, and laser-sight it all over again.




BTW - Yes, different ammo will shoot better or worse, sometimes a lot (4"-9").

To answer your original question...Yes, ammo can make that much difference, even if everything else mentioned is good...
I have a .243 with a custom target barrel that just hates Hornady 100grs, Winchester Supreme 95grs and Federal Fusion 95grs...I'm talking 3-4 inch groups from a gun that will group other ammo into a dime at 100 yards...

Keep working at it and it will all come together for you...

I have never seen a Savage shoot that bad. The first thing I would do, being that you seem inexperienced, is to take the rifle to the local gun shop and have him re-install the scope. Even if it means buying a new set of rings.
Then, before you leave, buy 2 boxes of different ammo (at least). Get rid of that Lead Sled and get some good old sand bags.
When you shoot, be as consistant as you can: location of rifle's forearm on the sand bags, cheek pressure on the stock, grip, etc. Try to keep everything the same.
If you still aren't getting tighter groups, don't have too big an ego to ask someone else with a bit more experience if they would shoot it for you.
Good luck

My advice is to shoot a 3 or 5 shot group without moving the scope. That way you can see what the actual group size is. When your adjusting the scope after every shot you never know how tight the group is. Recheck your bases and rings for tightness first. If the gun still want group, I would try a different brand of ammo. If still no luck after that I would mount a different scope and see what the groups are. I have had a one rifle that wouldnt group any better than 3 inches at a 100 yards, I tried everything including glass bedding it, no luck. That rifle is no longer with me now.