Military Rifles for Recreational Use
08-07-2009 | 04:19 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Spike
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20
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Military Rifles for Recreational Use
Military Rifles for Recreational Use
By Chuck Hawks
Introduction
I should make it clear from the outset that I am neither an expert in the field nor a particular fan of military rifles. What appeals to me is a nicely figured walnut stock of slender and elegant contour, precisely cut checkering, and highly polished finishes on both wood and metal. I insist that all of my rifles be scoped because I prefer to hit what I shoot at, and I want the scope mounted low and over the bore.
These features are not typical of any military rifle I have ever seen, and the only military rifle in its original condition I have ever owned is a Swedish Mauser Model 1896. I once owned a sporting rifle based on a British Lee-Enfield SMLE action, but all that was left of the original military rifle was the action itself. The action had been polished, blued, re-barreled, and re-stocked in black walnut. It looked and handled like a civilian hunting rifle, which was what I wanted. Unmodified late 19th and early 20th Century infantry rifles generally have unreasonably long barrels for hunting purposes, which makes them slow and awkward in the field.
Since the end of the Second World War a great many surplus military rifles have been imported and sold in the United States. Among the best known of these (there have been many others) are the Argentine Mauser Model 1891 (7.65x53); British SMLE Lee-Enfield rifle and Jungle Carbine (.303 British); German Mauser Model 1898 (8x57JS); Italian Carcano Model 1891 (6.5x52); Japanese Arisaka Type 38 (6.5x50) and Type 99 (7.7mm Japanese); Russian Mosin-Nagant Model 1891 (7.62x54R); Spanish Mauser Model 1893 and Model 1895 (7x57); Swedish Mauser Model 1894, Model 1896 and Model 36 (6.5x55); Swiss Schmidt-Rubin Models 1889, 1896, 1896/11, and 31 (7.5mm Swiss); U.S. Model 1892 Krag (.30-40 Krag), Model 1903 Springfield (.30-06), and Model 1917 Enfield (.30-06); and the U.S. M1 Carbine (.30 Carbine).
All of these except the U.S. M1 Carbine (an autoloader) are bolt action rifles. The supply of most of these rifles has long since dried up, but they are still seen on the used market. And a few models are still being imported as various militaries around the world, particularly in the smaller nations, clean out their reserve stocks of obsolete rifles. That list of military rifles, attenuated though it is, is far too long to allow me to cover them all, even briefly. But I will comment on a few of the models I feel are most suitable for the recreational shooter.
Mauser Model 98
I think that the best military action of them all (for sporting purposes) is the German Model 98 Mauser. This action has formed the basis of a great many custom built sporting rifles. It is one of the best bolt actions ever designed, and it heavily influenced the design of all subsequent bolt action rifles. Most "improvements" on the Model 98 design are in fact attempts to cut production costs--the Mauser 98 is an expensive action to manufacture.
German wartime production (both First and Second World Wars) was good at the beginning, but degraded as the war went on. Actions made late in either war are liable to be poorly heat treated and thus soft and unsuitable for sporting purposes. Peacetime production was uniformly good.
In Germany, Model 98 rifles were produced by Mauser, Kreighof, and Simson as well as by government arsenals. Model 98's were also turned out in Austria, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Mexico, Poland, and perhaps other places.
The Mauser 98 is a better action than most modified Model 98 actions. The latter include the American 1903 Springfield, the 1917 Enfield, and the immensely strong Japanese Arisakas. The Model 98 locks at the front of the bolt by means of two large locking lugs, and ****s on opening. It handles escaping gas from a burst case better than the other military actions. It has a strong, one-piece firing pin. Its safety lug is small and strong. It is located forward of the bolt handle, and turns down into a recess in the receiver. It is a controlled feed action with a full-length extractor that takes a very large bite on the rim on the case. The ejector is fixed and mounted in the receiver. All of these features have been widely copied in subsequent actions, both military and civilian, but seldom are they all present in one action.
A good, sound Model 98 military rifle is well worth having, and worth spending money on to have it converted into a custom sporter. German Model 98's are normally chambered for the 8x57JS, a classic big game cartridge on the order of the .308 Winchester. The military "S" load drove a 154 grain FMJ spitzer bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2880 fps and muzzle energy (ME) of 2835 ft. lbs. With proper bullets there are not many animals it can not take.
1903 Springfield
The U.S. 1903A3 Springfield is also a decent action and it is adaptable to sporting purposes. The military stock has such a short length of pull that few adult shooters can comfortably use it well. A 1903 Springfield rifle almost begs to be re-stocked before it can be used for recreational shooting. In a pinch, a thick slip-on recoil pad can help extend the length of pull.
The action is a modified Mauser 98, modified in an attempt by the U. S. government to avoid paying Mauser royalties. Almost all of the modifications were retrograde, and in any case the ploy failed. Mauser took the U. S. Government to court and won. The Springfield uses a two-piece firing pin that is liable to breakage, a unnecessarily large safety lug on the bolt, a coned breech that leaves part of the head of the case unsupported, and it does not handle escaping gas nearly as well as a Mauser 98.
Many fine custom built hunting rifles have been based on the '03 Springfield action, particularly between the world wars, and if you find a nickel steel or double heat treated Springfield action in good condition it can serve as the basis for a fine custom sporter. Such an action was used as the basis for the American Custom Gunmakers Guild's 1903 Springfield 100th Anniversary presentation rifle, which is as elegant and beautiful a custom sporter as you can imagine.
The .30-06 cartridge, for which the '03 Springfield rifle is chambered, is the most popular all-around big game cartridge in the world. It is the largest and potentially the most powerful of the 20th Century infantry rifle cartridges and served the United States through both World Wars and the Korean War. The American M2 service load drove a 150 grain FMJ spitzer bullet at a MV of 2740 fps and ME of 2500 ft. lbs.
Lee-Enfield Jungle Carbine
The neatest surplus rifle for use "as is" for big game hunting is probably the British Lee-Enfield Jungle Carbine. It is no longer available as surplus, as far as I know, but it has become are so popular that new rifles of the type have been made to fill the demand. The Gibbs Rifle Company offers the Quest II Extreme Carbine, a newly manufactured Jungle Carbine clone in .308 Winchester caliber.
The original Lee-Enfield Jungle carbine is a shortened version of the standard SMLE infantry rifle, and was chambered for the .303 British round. These weighed about 8 pounds, came with a short 20 inch barrel, and had an overall length of about 40 inches. They were handy and hard hitting carbines. If I had to take a stock military rifle deer hunting, this would be the one I would choose.
The .303 British Mk. VII load drove a 174 grain spitzer bullet at a MV of 2440 fps and ME of 2319 ft. lbs. The .303 British has proven itself a fine big game cartridge all over the world with appropriate (expanding) bullets. Do not use military FMJ ammunition for hunting.
More here:
http://curioandrelicfirearmsforum.yuku.com/topic/17698
By Chuck Hawks
Introduction
I should make it clear from the outset that I am neither an expert in the field nor a particular fan of military rifles. What appeals to me is a nicely figured walnut stock of slender and elegant contour, precisely cut checkering, and highly polished finishes on both wood and metal. I insist that all of my rifles be scoped because I prefer to hit what I shoot at, and I want the scope mounted low and over the bore.
These features are not typical of any military rifle I have ever seen, and the only military rifle in its original condition I have ever owned is a Swedish Mauser Model 1896. I once owned a sporting rifle based on a British Lee-Enfield SMLE action, but all that was left of the original military rifle was the action itself. The action had been polished, blued, re-barreled, and re-stocked in black walnut. It looked and handled like a civilian hunting rifle, which was what I wanted. Unmodified late 19th and early 20th Century infantry rifles generally have unreasonably long barrels for hunting purposes, which makes them slow and awkward in the field.
Since the end of the Second World War a great many surplus military rifles have been imported and sold in the United States. Among the best known of these (there have been many others) are the Argentine Mauser Model 1891 (7.65x53); British SMLE Lee-Enfield rifle and Jungle Carbine (.303 British); German Mauser Model 1898 (8x57JS); Italian Carcano Model 1891 (6.5x52); Japanese Arisaka Type 38 (6.5x50) and Type 99 (7.7mm Japanese); Russian Mosin-Nagant Model 1891 (7.62x54R); Spanish Mauser Model 1893 and Model 1895 (7x57); Swedish Mauser Model 1894, Model 1896 and Model 36 (6.5x55); Swiss Schmidt-Rubin Models 1889, 1896, 1896/11, and 31 (7.5mm Swiss); U.S. Model 1892 Krag (.30-40 Krag), Model 1903 Springfield (.30-06), and Model 1917 Enfield (.30-06); and the U.S. M1 Carbine (.30 Carbine).
All of these except the U.S. M1 Carbine (an autoloader) are bolt action rifles. The supply of most of these rifles has long since dried up, but they are still seen on the used market. And a few models are still being imported as various militaries around the world, particularly in the smaller nations, clean out their reserve stocks of obsolete rifles. That list of military rifles, attenuated though it is, is far too long to allow me to cover them all, even briefly. But I will comment on a few of the models I feel are most suitable for the recreational shooter.
Mauser Model 98
I think that the best military action of them all (for sporting purposes) is the German Model 98 Mauser. This action has formed the basis of a great many custom built sporting rifles. It is one of the best bolt actions ever designed, and it heavily influenced the design of all subsequent bolt action rifles. Most "improvements" on the Model 98 design are in fact attempts to cut production costs--the Mauser 98 is an expensive action to manufacture.
German wartime production (both First and Second World Wars) was good at the beginning, but degraded as the war went on. Actions made late in either war are liable to be poorly heat treated and thus soft and unsuitable for sporting purposes. Peacetime production was uniformly good.
In Germany, Model 98 rifles were produced by Mauser, Kreighof, and Simson as well as by government arsenals. Model 98's were also turned out in Austria, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Mexico, Poland, and perhaps other places.
The Mauser 98 is a better action than most modified Model 98 actions. The latter include the American 1903 Springfield, the 1917 Enfield, and the immensely strong Japanese Arisakas. The Model 98 locks at the front of the bolt by means of two large locking lugs, and ****s on opening. It handles escaping gas from a burst case better than the other military actions. It has a strong, one-piece firing pin. Its safety lug is small and strong. It is located forward of the bolt handle, and turns down into a recess in the receiver. It is a controlled feed action with a full-length extractor that takes a very large bite on the rim on the case. The ejector is fixed and mounted in the receiver. All of these features have been widely copied in subsequent actions, both military and civilian, but seldom are they all present in one action.
A good, sound Model 98 military rifle is well worth having, and worth spending money on to have it converted into a custom sporter. German Model 98's are normally chambered for the 8x57JS, a classic big game cartridge on the order of the .308 Winchester. The military "S" load drove a 154 grain FMJ spitzer bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of 2880 fps and muzzle energy (ME) of 2835 ft. lbs. With proper bullets there are not many animals it can not take.
1903 Springfield
The U.S. 1903A3 Springfield is also a decent action and it is adaptable to sporting purposes. The military stock has such a short length of pull that few adult shooters can comfortably use it well. A 1903 Springfield rifle almost begs to be re-stocked before it can be used for recreational shooting. In a pinch, a thick slip-on recoil pad can help extend the length of pull.
The action is a modified Mauser 98, modified in an attempt by the U. S. government to avoid paying Mauser royalties. Almost all of the modifications were retrograde, and in any case the ploy failed. Mauser took the U. S. Government to court and won. The Springfield uses a two-piece firing pin that is liable to breakage, a unnecessarily large safety lug on the bolt, a coned breech that leaves part of the head of the case unsupported, and it does not handle escaping gas nearly as well as a Mauser 98.
Many fine custom built hunting rifles have been based on the '03 Springfield action, particularly between the world wars, and if you find a nickel steel or double heat treated Springfield action in good condition it can serve as the basis for a fine custom sporter. Such an action was used as the basis for the American Custom Gunmakers Guild's 1903 Springfield 100th Anniversary presentation rifle, which is as elegant and beautiful a custom sporter as you can imagine.
The .30-06 cartridge, for which the '03 Springfield rifle is chambered, is the most popular all-around big game cartridge in the world. It is the largest and potentially the most powerful of the 20th Century infantry rifle cartridges and served the United States through both World Wars and the Korean War. The American M2 service load drove a 150 grain FMJ spitzer bullet at a MV of 2740 fps and ME of 2500 ft. lbs.
Lee-Enfield Jungle Carbine
The neatest surplus rifle for use "as is" for big game hunting is probably the British Lee-Enfield Jungle Carbine. It is no longer available as surplus, as far as I know, but it has become are so popular that new rifles of the type have been made to fill the demand. The Gibbs Rifle Company offers the Quest II Extreme Carbine, a newly manufactured Jungle Carbine clone in .308 Winchester caliber.
The original Lee-Enfield Jungle carbine is a shortened version of the standard SMLE infantry rifle, and was chambered for the .303 British round. These weighed about 8 pounds, came with a short 20 inch barrel, and had an overall length of about 40 inches. They were handy and hard hitting carbines. If I had to take a stock military rifle deer hunting, this would be the one I would choose.
The .303 British Mk. VII load drove a 174 grain spitzer bullet at a MV of 2440 fps and ME of 2319 ft. lbs. The .303 British has proven itself a fine big game cartridge all over the world with appropriate (expanding) bullets. Do not use military FMJ ammunition for hunting.
More here:
http://curioandrelicfirearmsforum.yuku.com/topic/17698
08-07-2009 | 06:28 PM
#2
Fork Horn
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
From:
I have two....
One is a WWII era Springfield M1 Garand that I purchased a few years ago.
Second is a 6.5 Japanese Arisaka Carbine that my step-grandfather brought back from the war. Has all matching serial numbers, and the mum is completely intact.
One is a WWII era Springfield M1 Garand that I purchased a few years ago.
Second is a 6.5 Japanese Arisaka Carbine that my step-grandfather brought back from the war. Has all matching serial numbers, and the mum is completely intact.
08-08-2009 | 05:05 AM
#5
Thread Starter
Spike
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
My Mosin 91 is a great rifle and is dead on. Unfortunately the bolt action is quite sticky. I am not sure if it is the surplus ammo I shoot or the rifle itself. My Mosin 44 was unissued and remains unsued.
08-08-2009 | 01:19 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,802
Likes: 0
From: Coralville, IA. USA
I've had two ChiCom Mosin/Nagant rifles (a rifle and a carbine), two ChiCom SKS's, and a Soviet SVT 40. Of the three, the only one I really had any fondness for was the SVT-40. Both Mosins were not particularly accurate 4-6 MOA typically, and with the straight bolt handle, they don't accommodate sporterizing very well, though it can be done. The SKS's were also very inaccurate, with one shooting at best 6 MOA, and one that couldn't keep 10 of 10 shots on a large pizza box at 100 yards. The latter had a crookedly mounted front sight post, so even with the front sight drifted as far right as possible, it still shot roughly 6" right at 100 yards, requiring "Kentucky windage" to compensate. I wouldn't consider any of them particularly well suited to hunting, but they were fun guns to shoot, and (at the time at least) dirt cheap to buy and shoot.
The SVT-40 was a whole different animal. It was well made, fairly accurate for a semi-auto shooting about 2-3 MOA if I really focused on trigger control (the trigger was a typical eastern-bloc semi-auto trigger, long and heavy, though not gritty like my SKS's triggers). It would have made a good short range hunting rifle provided you can shoot with the crappy Soviet battle sights, but it was very long and heavy, and it had a muzzlebrake, which made it EXTREMELY LOUD. I made the mistake of shooting it once without hearing protection, and my ears rang for hours. The only problem I had with it was that it'd tend to slamfire with anything other than Soviet milsurp ammo because of the rather heavy floating firing pin. It also had a fluted chamber, making reloading for it not practical or maybe not even possible. I do regret selling it as I bought it for a little over $100 in the early '90's (pre-Slick Willie), I sold it to a C&R collector in 2001 or 2002 for a little under $500, and now they can bring in almost $1000 in the condition mine was in (which was 95+).
If you like your Mosin, it's acceptably accurate (which some are, depending on where/when they were made), and you want to hunt with it, there's not reason not to. The 7.62x54R is more than powerful enough to hunt elk with.
I, personally, have been long over my Com-Bloc surplus rifle days. Now I prefer a rifle that will shoot 5 shots into a quarter at 100 yards over banging away with a milsurp rifle and not really hitting anything.
Mike
The SVT-40 was a whole different animal. It was well made, fairly accurate for a semi-auto shooting about 2-3 MOA if I really focused on trigger control (the trigger was a typical eastern-bloc semi-auto trigger, long and heavy, though not gritty like my SKS's triggers). It would have made a good short range hunting rifle provided you can shoot with the crappy Soviet battle sights, but it was very long and heavy, and it had a muzzlebrake, which made it EXTREMELY LOUD. I made the mistake of shooting it once without hearing protection, and my ears rang for hours. The only problem I had with it was that it'd tend to slamfire with anything other than Soviet milsurp ammo because of the rather heavy floating firing pin. It also had a fluted chamber, making reloading for it not practical or maybe not even possible. I do regret selling it as I bought it for a little over $100 in the early '90's (pre-Slick Willie), I sold it to a C&R collector in 2001 or 2002 for a little under $500, and now they can bring in almost $1000 in the condition mine was in (which was 95+).
If you like your Mosin, it's acceptably accurate (which some are, depending on where/when they were made), and you want to hunt with it, there's not reason not to. The 7.62x54R is more than powerful enough to hunt elk with.
I, personally, have been long over my Com-Bloc surplus rifle days. Now I prefer a rifle that will shoot 5 shots into a quarter at 100 yards over banging away with a milsurp rifle and not really hitting anything.
Mike
08-09-2009 | 06:23 AM
#7
Thread Starter
Spike
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
I shoot my Mosin 91 with Iron sights and at 100 yards, my groupings are almost all in the black. My jungle carbine is even more accurate. One of these days I may scope one. I have a Yugo Mauser and that thing sprays bullets like a shotgun sprays shot. It is terrible. I think it all depends on the soundness of the barrel you get.
08-09-2009 | 05:03 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 0
From: Sierra Nevadas., Ca
What you need to do is take the bolt down completely and clean the heck out of it. They were packed in cosmoline for so long (I guess) that it got way down into the cracks and crevices of the bolt. Caused it to stick. At least that's my impression and I've heard others do the same.
After I did that, used gun grease in and on it and had no problems. Probably shot four or five hundreds rounds before cleaning to see if it would do it again. Never did.
As for accuracy, I might have gotten lucky, but I get 4 inchers or better at 100 yds. Offhand. That's about as good as you're gonna get from a Mosin. Viced, I get 2 or 2.5 inch groups. That's good enough for me to trust it hunting. Never shoot past 150 yds usually anyway.
Best part about them is the price of ammo. It's gone up a little, but still well below any others. Only downside is they don't, and probably never will, make copper ammo for it. Not as far as I know. If there is, I'd love to know. I can't use lead ammo in some of the areas I hunt. Guess I could load my own, just gotta find dies for it.
08-09-2009 | 06:13 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Spike
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Thanks for the tip, I could imagine how comso would get in the way if not properly removed.
I actually have a lot of experience with C & R rifles (have a 03 FFL). Whenever you get a C & R rifle, it is best to break it down to its parts and soak the metal ones in boiling water with a good amount of Dawn detergent in it. That will remove the cosmo. My Mosin went through the process and has no cosmo left in it.
I suspect it is the surplus ammo I am using (it has painted casings). One of these days I may buy some new production ammo and try it out.
I actually have a lot of experience with C & R rifles (have a 03 FFL). Whenever you get a C & R rifle, it is best to break it down to its parts and soak the metal ones in boiling water with a good amount of Dawn detergent in it. That will remove the cosmo. My Mosin went through the process and has no cosmo left in it.
I suspect it is the surplus ammo I am using (it has painted casings). One of these days I may buy some new production ammo and try it out.
08-17-2009 | 04:50 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 0
From: Spokane Washington
I love my 6.5 Swede. It is very accurate and easy to handle. Low recoil and did I mention accurate? Mine isn't the real long sniper version though, its the shorter more civilian version. (Still learning about the different types). All the #'s match and its in excellent condition.