30-06 vs 308
 

Okay, I know some people are tired of this argument, but as I read up on peoples’ opinions, I learn more and more and see opinions change all the time (especially my own).

Let me give you some background: I'm pushing 40 years of age and am taking up hunting (all kinds) for the first time in my life. I've been reading books, blogs, and magazines for the past year or so, and 2009 will mark my first hunting season(s). I have a bow, a slug gun, andnow I want a rifle.

My first question is this; 30-06 or a 308?

From what I have read, a .30-06 will shoot farther and flatter than a .308—period. However, from what I have also read, sharp shooters are more accurate with a .308 on average—period—because whatever the 308 lacks in ballistics it more than makes up for in recoil reduction.

Additional background: I want to hunt everything from rabbits to bears.

According to the Alaska Department of Fish & Game (http://wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=huntalaska.firearms), magnum cartridges are NOT needed to hunt 1600 lb. Moose or 1500 lb. coastal brown bear. Bearing that in mind, and no pun intended, I am looking to the two classic all-in-one rifle calibers. By the way, the Alaskan government also lists both the 308 and the 30-06 as acceptable for anything Alaska has to offer.

More background: I have a 22LR, a handgun (not for hunting), a pump shotgun, and a slug gun; my wife will kill me if I buy too many more guns, and I need a couple more shotguns, so I’m looking for a due-it-all centerfire rifle.

So, is there anything I should consider besides what I mentioned between the two calibers? For example, is one better than the other for smaller game/lighter loads?

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

The 30-06 is plenty accurate enough for hunting and recoil isn't that much more than the 308. With it's longer case and greater capacity, the 30-06 can throw heavier bullets faster than the 308. Nice is you're hunting in Alaska.

Non-magnum for a 1000lb brown bear? It's possible, but I wouldn't want to do it. :D

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

There isn't enough of a difference (IMO) to weigh that much on one being better than the other. Short action versus long, little bit more velocity/powder and the upside of being able to throw 220 grain offerings from the -06 whereas a .308 pushes 180's on the far side. Whatever you shoot better would be my suggestion. I'm an -06 guy but .308's are really just as good for what you're looking to accomplish. If you're going to be steering towards predominantly deer sized game and smaller, the .308 is your way to go, as most major ammo companies produce varmint loads up to the .308 range and usually no further.

Either way, good problem to have I guess.

(Don't look past the 7mm-08, either).

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

If I had any intensions of hunting brown bear the mininium I would want is the 30 .06. I know the .06 is good enough if the bear is broadside to you & doesn't know you're there but if you spook it in the brush and it charges you I personally would want more gun.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

If you're talking big game in alaska, hands down I would get a .30-06 over a .308, and I would guess many outfitters and others would want you to have something even bigger, though a .30-06 I think for most things there would be the starting point of cartridges.

You really can do it all in N.A. with the '06.

If you were just talking deer hunting....that would be a different discussion. As well if you were talking multiple guns...

From rabbits to brown bear....I'd get a 3 gun combo...1 light, 1 in the middle, and 1 magnum.

.243 Win, a .270 win or .30-06, and probably a .338mag or .375H&H.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

remington 30.06 model 700 i love it

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

First of all I have zero experience with anything larger than mule deer, white tails and wild hogs. So no way I can advise for elk, moose, bear, etc. I have a pretty good and 40+ years experience hunting with both the 30.06 Spr. and 308 Win. I hand load for both and have shot 1000's of rounds of each at the range. In my opinion, for us average shooters accuracy is a function of too many inputs to be cartridge only. By far, No. 1 of these is us-n's ... the shooters. In truth, there is indeed a great dependency in the accuracy upon the quality of the rifle, a good trigger and having ammo that matches the idiosyncrasies of that particular rifle. Having said that, there seems to me to be something about the 308 Win. that seems optimizes the performance of many, many quality bullets and powder charges. Maybe it is the shape of the case ???

From a ballistics stand point, which any reloading chart will confirm, the 30.06 Spr. starts to outshine the 308 Win. when the bullet weight exceeds about 165 gr. In the 130 gr. to 165 gr. bullet weight, the two are very, very close in every way. I have found that my 308 Win. rifle "likes" a 165 gr. bullet at about max load best. My 2 - 30.06 Spr. rifles do great with the 165 gr., however 1 of them will darn near cloverleaf 180 gr. bullets pushed at near max as recommended by the Speer reloader manual I have. This is true in all 3 of these rifles for both flat based and boat tailed spitzers.

My personal hunting rifle of choice on all but the little bit of western hunting I have done, where shots could be 400-500 yards, is my 308 Win. However, I would think that if you are going to "one rifle" yourself, the 30.06 Spr. would be a better choice. The longer case will handle longer bullets better. I am guessing that bullets in the 180 gr. and up in the 308 Win. case are so long that they start to take up space that could otherwise be used for additional powder charge.

Truth for deer, either would be great. For moose and elk, I'd say ditto. For big bears ... ???

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

I'd take the 30-06, hands down. There are more load offerings for this caliber than any other on the market. You can go from reduced 125's to full power 220's. My understanding on the 308 is that there is some sort of "magic" balance with that particular case length, powder charge, burn rate, velocity, and a 168 grain bullet.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

.30-06 for sure. And get yourself a nice muzzleloader while you're at it to round out your gun collection.:)

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

+1
The 168gr boattail hollow point round is incredibly accurate. Long range, high power rifle championships have been won with it!

With my Savage .308 and a 165gr round or the match grade 168gr BTHP, heck, even I can get cloverleaf groupings! ;)

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

Both are fine rounds, no question about that. I would choose the 06 because I have much more experience with it. It is easy to reload for, not picky with powder or bullets. For brown bear wow im sure there has been many brown bears killed with the 06, but I think I would choose something in the .338 win magand up for anything that can bite back.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

I just bought a new rifle in .30-06. I have much more experience with the .308, but went back to the 06 this time. I had several reasons, first, the 06 was my first centerfire rifle, and when I sold my old 760, I missed having it around. The .308 is going to provide more consistent ballistics than the .30-06 as a general rule, but you don't really notice much of a change until you start shooting out to 800-1000 yards. I don't know about you, but my hunting doesn't afford me an opportunity for a 1000 yard shot. I also like the 06 for shooting up to a 200 gr. round. It can be loaded down to 120 grain if you want to do it as well. Not to mention I can still get boxes of 06 Federal for $13. The same box of .308 is going for around $22. I did kick around the idea of getting a 7mm-08, lots of guys on here love them, and if I had not sold the 760, I may have gone for that. Maybe next time.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

I have used the 30-06 for everything from groundhogs (90gr) to brown bear (180-220gr), and could not be happier with the perfomance.
The only experience I have with the 308 is on deer....it did the job just fine, but the recoil was the same as the 30-06. I just don't see the need for the 308 when the 30-06 outperforms it in practically every aspect.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

If you going to hunt bear you better drop the BB guns and get a 300 WIN MAG Lol
No I use 270 but I would Say 30-06 for sure

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

I love my 06, but for deer sized game, I mostly use my .270. When we go Elk hunting I use the -06 for the heavier bullet weights available. Any one know why the military switched from the -06 to the .308? I figure there must be a reason...
John-

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

The way I understand it, the military switched because the short action .308 case got jammed less often then the long action 30.06. I like my 06 Remington 760. It gets the job done just fine, but I've often thought about going to a .308 thinking it has less recoil. I'm glad I read this thread.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

With bullets in the 150gr-168gr range, the two cartridges are more or less equivalent (the .308 was designed as a 30-06 replacement by the military). The 30-06 can be a little faster, the .308 a little more accurate, and recoils just a little bit less. For hunting, these differences are so minor that neither you or your game can tell the difference. Either cartridge will kill any deer on the planet with ease.

For hunting, the real differences are:

The .308 uses a shorter action. If a rifle maker chooses to (and they don’t always) a .308 rifle can be made a little lighter and a little handier than an equivalent 30-06.

The 30-06 has a larger case. It can be loaded with heavier bullets (180gr-220gr), and still have enough room for the necessary powder. Heavier bullets may be a better choice for moose and elk. This makes the 30-06 a little more versatile.

For things with teeth and nasty temperaments like brown bear, you’re talking a different class of rifle (eg – 338WM, .375HH). Sure, a .308/30-06 can kill a brown bear, but IMO that’s looking for trouble.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

The military designed the .308 to replace the 30-06 mostly because a shorter case worked better in automatic/semi-automatic applications, and worked better in box magazines. Also, being smaller, they required less brass, less powder, and a soldier could carry more rounds with the same weight.

Using the same bullet, advances in powder technology allowed more or less the same ballistics as the .30-06 ball ammo used in WWII.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

Can anyone read between the lines here? The short magnum concept was originally a government conspiracy fueled by WWII and the search for the same efficiency in a compact cartridge. Hmmph, and Winchester thought they were going to corner the market on those things.....

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

I own a .308. My brother owns a 30-06. We shoot fairly regularly. We are 6'3", 250lbs and 6"6, 290lbs (recoil not much of in issue). We hunt together a majority of the time. .308 is accurate. 30-06 is accurate, but not as much as .308. I prefer the .308, but do not have anything bad to say about the other. When I buy a new rifle, it will be another .308. My brother has recently purchased a new rifle in a .243 and has used it quite a bit over the past year. as he is the bigger of us, he dosen't like to admit, but the recoil did have a factor in it. As far as ammo goes, i preferred round is the Winchester balistic silvertip .308, 150 gn.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

I have both. I prefer the 30-06. It is more versatile for an all around hunting rifle cartridge with a bigger bullet selection. It is definitely better with heavier bullets. Recoil is modest with 150g bullets. For deer size game with 150-165g bullets, the 06 will give you about an extra 100 to 200 fps. The accuracy advantage of the 308 is modest in comparably loaded cartridges and would be advantageous in a high power match, but not in the field.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

Easy! 30.06! It will shoot better than most of us can. The ammo is cheaper, more abundant, and much, much bigger selection. Not to mention the dough you will save on ammo.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

I'd vote for the .30-06 as well, as it's more capable with the heavier bullets that one would use for certain Alaskan game.

Cost savings wouldn't be a reason though. I've never been to a store where 06's were cheaper than .308's. They're always exactly the same price around here.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

Or local wallyworld sells 06 blue-box Federals in 150 and 180 for $12.97 a box. The same box in .308 is $20. I buy 2 boxes every time I go. I haven't found anyone else selling it that cheap, and I might as well get it while it's still legal.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

The .308 Winchester and the .30-06 are so similar that either will serve you well (did you say "coastal brown bears?") My advice would be to go with the .30-06 because of bullet weight.

The .308 and -06 perform nearly equally from 125 grains - 180 grains (the bullets are the same after all). At 180 grains and up though, the bullets must get longer and to be positioned for correct overall length must be set back further into the case mouth...not a problem with the -06...room to spare...a big problem with the .308 no room to spare (you must reduce the load or go with a more compact powder without effecting pressure). This is where the -06 is better.

If you are serious about including the big browns and even grizzlies, consider something larger(I personnally prefer an Abrams main battle tank)...except for the availability of ammo (and the $$$) the .300 Remington Ultra Mag with power level ammo (III = -06, II = Win Mag, I = Ultra Mag for the big nasties) is very versatile.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

As a Canadian, im surprised to here your ammunition prices. Here, 308 and 3006 prices are virtually identical for deer ammunition ($15-20), with 3006 premium bullets usually being a bit more expensive.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

Given the choice, for a do it all lower 48, I would choose 308. Including AK, I think I would go to the 30-06. For longer range lower 48, 300 WSM.

Another good choice would be 338 federal. I think the only thing it leaves wanting is a long Elk or Antelope shot. Other than that, pretty much ideal, IMO.

Bigger bullets always beat more velocity for killing, IME. Wanna shoot my 375 JDJ pistol?[:-]

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

The reason for the high prices is that there's a rumor going around that the Feds are going to ban .308 ammo, because it's a military round, that's their only idea, not taking into account the fact the a 7mm Rem Mag will do more damage, as well as a host of other cartridges. In any case, we shall have to wait and see, but if they do ban .308 ammo, I might have to sell my rifle to one you Canucks and get myself a 7mm-08 or a .270.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

if your government confiscates all 308 ammo, it'll affect me too. Pretty well all our ammo comes from you guys.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

Banning .308 because it's a military round?

Would they not also have to ban .223 and 9mm, .30-06, .45 acp, .45-70, .45 colt, etc.?

These are some of the most popular cartridges in the US.

Color me dubious.

-nosualc

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

Plus the .308 is dropping in popularity for military snipers, from what I've heard (the main military use for it I know of...the grunts are using .223). If something is going to be banned, it would be .50 cal over the whole "one mile assassination" thing. In fact, I've often run into fears about civilian .50 caliber rifles, but never about the .308. I guess people could be freaked out about the AK-47 and such rifles, since 7.62 is almost fully interchangable with .308.

Either way, it makes handloading even more attractive. I'm not sure if it's as cheap to pick up .308 military surplus as it used to be, but once you have a good supply of brass the primers and bullets will always be easy. If I didn't have a friend who loved handloading I would do it myself. I still may, at some point. My coworker's husband spent $50 on a box of .25-06 shells right before hunting season because it was all he could find in stock locally...I just find that staggering compared to what it costs for her to make a .308 round.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

I have hunted with both and to me it's six in one hand and half a dozen in the other. No complaints about either one. If you are worried about recoil I know they make reduced recoil ammo now.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

there's not enough difference in those two to make a true argument....with the exception of case capacity...you can shoot 220's with a 06, but you'd be better off with any magnum 7mm or bigger...:)

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

What you said on your first post is correct about the 06 being faster and flatter in trajectory. They are both 30 cal. and shoot the same bullets. The only difference is basically speed, as is comparison of the 06 to the 300 Win. Mag., or the 300 Win. Mag to the 300 Ultra Mag. etc. With the added speed you will get some added recoil, but the difference between the 06 and 308 is very little. Both are excellent deer / Black bear,( and other big game)calibers IMO.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

my pick would be the 308 thats my favorite gun

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

Thanks everyone!

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

Okay, I'd like to leave politics out of it, but I thought this was worth mentioning. My state is a battleground state (politically). Many of the Democrats are very pro gun in this state. In fact, I live in a VERY Republican county and I am more conservative about guns than anyone I know (except another fellow Democrat). Let me quote Heston and just say that they'll have to pry my gun out of my cold, dead hands.

There are a few high profile anti-gunners that get the attention, but you would be surprised how many Dems are all about guns. I think every citizen of sound mind and age should wear a sidearm at all times. Liberal gun-hating people are on their way out, as they should be (IMO). There is no place for them in a democracy or democratic-republic. Even though I ended up with a .30-06, banning .308 ammo is not an option!

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

My wife shoots a .30-06.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

Someone else mentioned it, and I'd have to agree. With a .338 Federal, you can hunt anything that lives in North America and have a solid 300-yard range. All this with recoil equivalent to the .30-'06 and trajectory equivalent to the .308 Win. In terms of knockdown power, it beats both of them.

I just bought a rifle in .338 Federal. I doubt I'd ever need anything else, except for pronghorn or mule deer on the open prairie, where I'm going to want my .270 Win. However, I'm sure I could just work my way to within 350 yards and handle those shots with the .338 Federal, too.

RE: 30-06 vs 308
 

I agree the .338 is a stellar caliber. I would have to say, however, that the .30-06 is all I will ever need in North America. I read on the Alaskan DNR website last year that, not only were magnum calibers not needed to take brown bear, but that the .30-06 was all you needed to harvest bear (that and good aim). I went back about a month ago but couldn't find it (the quote) again to give people the reference. In any event, Teddy Roosevelt was happy using it to take an elephant (with iron sights no less). That's not to say it isn't prudent to use a stronger caliber for brown bear, it is (and elephants too), but throughout history, an element of danger was always part of hunting, so I personally will not choose to go with a magnum caliber. That's just me (and maybe I'm foolish). The 338 Federal would be nice to have though!