standard or heavy barrel????
#11
ORIGINAL: jecole360
Obviously I don't know a whole lot about rifles and I keep hearing people reffering to sub-moa groups. What does that mean (moa)???
ORIGINAL: coyote#68
I have a remington 700sps in 243 and it shots sub-moa with the federal fusions
I have a remington 700sps in 243 and it shots sub-moa with the federal fusions
#12
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Jecole - Two years ago, I went out and bought a Kimber Longmaster VT (84m) in .22-250.It was a beautiful firearm with a laminated stock and stainless / flutted heavy barrel. I hunted with it 4 times and really disliked lugging 11lbs around. I sold it and bought a Remington 700 Mountain rifle in .243. It only weighs 6 lbs and accuracy is great. With the .55grain bullets, It shoots as fast and flat as the .22-250. But I also use it to hunt deer with 100gr bullets, something I wouldn't do with the .22-250.
Unless you're hunting prarie dogs / shooting multiple shots, I'd recommend the sporter (regular) barrel
Unless you're hunting prarie dogs / shooting multiple shots, I'd recommend the sporter (regular) barrel
#13
ORIGINAL: jeepkid
MOA= Minute of Angle. At 100 yards it is ~1". So a sub-moa rifle is usually 3-5 shots in an inch at 100 yards.That's the quick answer, it gets different as the range goes longer.
MOA= Minute of Angle. At 100 yards it is ~1". So a sub-moa rifle is usually 3-5 shots in an inch at 100 yards.That's the quick answer, it gets different as the range goes longer.
#14
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,056
Likes: 0
From: WY
If all you're ever going to hunt are those same two fields, then it probably doesn't matter WHICH of the two you choose. Coyote rifles tend to have different characteristics than your standard "varmint rifle". Most notably, they're light enough to carry from setup to setup. Leave the heavy-barrel jobs for the prairie poodles and the groundhogs.
My all-time favorite coyote rifle was a Remington 788 in .243. The .243 did cause significant pelt damage (though bullet weights less than 75 gr weren't available then). I use a variety of .223s on coyotes today
If you're just learning, stick to the basics. No need for that gee-golly-whiz rangfinding scope. Especially if you're hunting the same fields all the time, it shouldn't be that difficult to set up some range markers to practice and learn to estimate ranges by sight.
My all-time favorite coyote rifle was a Remington 788 in .243. The .243 did cause significant pelt damage (though bullet weights less than 75 gr weren't available then). I use a variety of .223s on coyotes today
If you're just learning, stick to the basics. No need for that gee-golly-whiz rangfinding scope. Especially if you're hunting the same fields all the time, it shouldn't be that difficult to set up some range markers to practice and learn to estimate ranges by sight.
#15
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,408
Likes: 0
From:
ORIGINAL: jecole360
Thanks, that helps alot. I wonder why they call it that though(minute of angle).
ORIGINAL: jeepkid
MOA= Minute of Angle. At 100 yards it is ~1". So a sub-moa rifle is usually 3-5 shots in an inch at 100 yards.That's the quick answer, it gets different as the range goes longer.
MOA= Minute of Angle. At 100 yards it is ~1". So a sub-moa rifle is usually 3-5 shots in an inch at 100 yards.That's the quick answer, it gets different as the range goes longer.
#16
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,408
Likes: 0
From:
The advantages of the heavier barrel are:
1) Stiffer - greater accuracy potential
2) More shots before overheating - longer barrel life and greater accuracy at the end of long shot strings
3) Heavier gun - easier to shoot accurately
So the heavier barrel is favored for:
1) Situations where you'll shoot fast enough to overheat a barrel - preserve accuracy and barrel life
2) Care about maximal accuracy - longer range shooting
Your situation sounds like it does not demand a heavier barrel, though you could still opt for it. The only real trade-off is weight, and you'll have to make that decision.
1) Stiffer - greater accuracy potential
2) More shots before overheating - longer barrel life and greater accuracy at the end of long shot strings
3) Heavier gun - easier to shoot accurately
So the heavier barrel is favored for:
1) Situations where you'll shoot fast enough to overheat a barrel - preserve accuracy and barrel life
2) Care about maximal accuracy - longer range shooting
Your situation sounds like it does not demand a heavier barrel, though you could still opt for it. The only real trade-off is weight, and you'll have to make that decision.
#17
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,320
Likes: 0
In its simplest of terms "sub MOA" means that a gun has the ability to shoot slightly smaller than 1" groups at 100 yds.
MOA is 1/60 of one degree of an angle. Extended out to 100 yds. this equals just slightly over 1". At 200 yds. the amount is linear and is just a bit over 2".
Most guns that are described as such on the internet fail miserably to perform at this level in actual use.
MOA is 1/60 of one degree of an angle. Extended out to 100 yds. this equals just slightly over 1". At 200 yds. the amount is linear and is just a bit over 2".
Most guns that are described as such on the internet fail miserably to perform at this level in actual use.
#18
i wish you were close id let you feel just how heavy, and top heavy, my SPS in 22-250 actually is! its so top heavy i have to sling it barrel down...and when i walk, i have to watch because its so close to the ground(im only like 5'9"-5'10" but with the scope and bipod, its just a heavy rifle...when i goto a new stock it'll likely get HEAVIER. i cant see that stock thats on it weighing much.
great rifle...but believe me, if your walking very far, very often, you'll likely curse it lol....i carried it predator hunting uphill to 1 set....i wanted to leave it at the truck all the way...snow, up hill, cold and bundled up...i was in no mood to carry that sucker plus my light, up the hill lol. but, when the yotes and foxes hang up at 200yds i know all i gotta do is send em a 55gr pill and they will take a dirt nap so i suffer and lug it to some of my open field and long range setups...it aint fun to carry though....
heres a pic of mine fully setup...

great rifle....but it aint built to carry around IMO. im used to packing and carrying gear a good distance whether its the bow and treestand and pack, or surf rod and bait and cooler, or the predator gun and light, or 22, light and dog tracking system and fur...etc etc...im used to it and still find carrying the SPS to be a bit cumbersome...
when i redo it, its going to be made into a more compact, lighter, rifle...like the others said, 300yds and less, you really dont need the weight of a 26" heavy barrel....unless you WANT it..
great rifle...but believe me, if your walking very far, very often, you'll likely curse it lol....i carried it predator hunting uphill to 1 set....i wanted to leave it at the truck all the way...snow, up hill, cold and bundled up...i was in no mood to carry that sucker plus my light, up the hill lol. but, when the yotes and foxes hang up at 200yds i know all i gotta do is send em a 55gr pill and they will take a dirt nap so i suffer and lug it to some of my open field and long range setups...it aint fun to carry though....
heres a pic of mine fully setup...

great rifle....but it aint built to carry around IMO. im used to packing and carrying gear a good distance whether its the bow and treestand and pack, or surf rod and bait and cooler, or the predator gun and light, or 22, light and dog tracking system and fur...etc etc...im used to it and still find carrying the SPS to be a bit cumbersome...
when i redo it, its going to be made into a more compact, lighter, rifle...like the others said, 300yds and less, you really dont need the weight of a 26" heavy barrel....unless you WANT it..
#19
That's a nice setup you got there. That is basically what I want and I have held the gun, it just didn't have the bipod on it but I know what you mean about it feeling top heavy. The stock on it felt really lightweight and cheap so if I get the gun I plan on putting a better stock on it.
I'm not going to be doing too much hiking with it and I'll probably be doing more target shooting withit than huntingso I think that's the one I plan on getting. Thanks for all the input.
I'm not going to be doing too much hiking with it and I'll probably be doing more target shooting withit than huntingso I think that's the one I plan on getting. Thanks for all the input.
#20
Spike
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
MOA is close to an inch at 100 yrds, 2 inches at 200 yrds, 3 in. at 300 yrds and so on.
If you want a lighter gun but want the heavy barrel you ought to look into a Howa m1500 varmint. It weights under 10lbs without the scope. They will shoot under moa with ease. Nice rifles. And by the way I have one for sale if you are interested. Research them and im sure you will be impressed.
If you want a lighter gun but want the heavy barrel you ought to look into a Howa m1500 varmint. It weights under 10lbs without the scope. They will shoot under moa with ease. Nice rifles. And by the way I have one for sale if you are interested. Research them and im sure you will be impressed.


