RE: Magnum haters?
 

+1 true

RE: Magnum haters?
 

I've been kind of staying out of this but now I feel I have to step in. There ARE legitimate uses for magnums and I own some myself BUT most of the time,they aren't needed. The facts of the matter is shot placement and proper bullet design/treminal bullet performance is EVERYTHING. It don't matter what the game animal was shot with-let's use deer for comparsion,all that matters is it being shot in right place with a good bullet. A gutshot deer from a magnum is just as gutshot as a gutshot deer with a "peashooter". In the vast majority of deer I've seen taken,and of the 1s I've helped to recover,the deer badly hit with magnum that ran off,seemed to go every bit as far as those marginally hit with lesser calibers. In fact,I havn't been able to notice ANY difference between say a 7mm08 w/140 gr bullets with proper hit and a .300 win mag w/180 gr bullets. The ONLY difference that I could possibly notice is the .300 kicked a hell of a lot harder. Like I said,magnums DO have their place-but not in 95% of "normal" hunting.

RE: Magnum haters?
 

No, a magnum isn't a guarantee that you'll do more damage. Depends on the animal, the range,the bullet, andvelocity at that range.

The only elk I've been able to recover a bullet from the .300 Wby from was hit at just over 300 yards. The other two elk were pass-throughs at less than 300 yardsand both required tracking. On the other hand, the only bullet I've NOT recovered from an elk hit with the .30-06 was one shot at less than 100 yards. Only one of the four elk I've shot with the .30-06 took more than a couple steps after it was hit, and the damage was considerably more than any of those I'd hit with the .300, with the exception of the one hit at just over 300 yards, which was about equal. The pass-throughs eventually laid down and bled out, but there was relatively little associated tissue damage.

You CAN drive a bullet too fast for it to adequately perform. At ranges less than 300 yards, you increase the risk of that considerably with a magnum.

You're assuming a lot when you suggest that a magnum will kill faster than a "Pea Shooter" in a gut-shot scenario. The tissue encountered in the gut is significantly different than that around the vitals. Very little bone, very little muscle, mostly water, often very little blood to trail. Bullets don't tend to perform on the gut, regardless of what they're fired from. Nearly everyone I've talked to who's gut-shot a deer with any modern centerfire rifle has had the bullet pass through. There's a reason they call "vitals" what they do. A deer can't function without them. On the other hand, the less vascular tissue in the gut can produce death from minutes to days later.

No, I could care less if you think a .243 is a"Pea Shooter" for deer. I've two nice 5x5 Whitetailson my wall thanks to it.

I can't disagree that you owe it to the game topractice, or thata quick kill should be the first priority.

I don't agree that a magnum will do it better though.Really, the only thing my .300 doesmore of than what my 30-06 does is "speed". Close in, velocity can be a liability. Beyond 400 yards, I might start giving an edge to the magnum, since it's thendriving the bullet at about the same velocitythat the .30-06 drives it at 100 yards.

Like what kind of situation? The only situation I can imagine getting into through no fault of my own where the extra "oooommmmph" would be useful is if I found an elk at over 400 yards that I was comfortable taking a shot at. We don't have any bears where I hunt whitetails, just mountain lions. A .243 will handle both a cat or a deer handily.

Again, I don't "hate" magnums, I have two of them. I rather choose the tool that'll do the job best under the conditions I expect to hunt. For deer, the terminal performance of bothmy .30-06 and .243 are completely adequate and I have no reason to up-gun to a magnum.Truthfully, sometimes I think the .30-06 is too much for deer. If I go somewhere where I expect to be shooting at elk over 400 yards, I'll take the magnum.Will that make you feel any better?

RE: Magnum haters?
 

That deer had probably been reading the forums here and just knew he was dead if RR was doing the shooting! :)

How fast is your bullet going at 600 yards? If a standard drove the same bullet at the same velocity at, say 200 yards, could the same hit then have produced the same result?

RE: Magnum haters?
 

Let me give you a situation that actually happened to me. And the only reason I scored was because of the confidence I had in my magnum.

I was elk hunting in NM, and I was over watching a large open are. A group of about 15 elk ran approximately 200 yards, and they ran within 5 yards of my position. I had a large 5X5 bull standing at 5 yards distance and he was looking staight at me with his chin up. I already had my rifle raised and was pointing it straight under his chin. The cartridge was a 340 Weatherby. It was either take the shot or not!!! I had 100% confidence that the 250 grain bullet I was shooting would drop him right there with that shot. It did.

I would not have taken that shot with a lesser cartridge. No gut shots involved. But a tough shot that is fully capable of a humane kill with adequate firepower. That is why I cringe when I hear people call a 25-06 or a 243 as adequate elk medicine. I would never have taken that shot with a "Pea Shooter". Do you not agree?? However with the 340 Wby. Mag. there was no doubt of the outcome.

So I either come home to WV empty handed. Or I shoot a trophy bull in a not so every day shot, with supreme confidence. So a magnum can make a difference.

And yes I do believe a gut shot animal with a magnum is much more likely to die and be recovered over a gut shot deer with a "Pea Shooter".

And as far as bullets. Well that is another discussion. Tom.

RE: Magnum haters?
 

The first elk I got was a cow, facing straight on, at 150 yards. I think you know where this is going... I extended the bipod, sat down, and popped the heart with one shot. She turned and ran about 20 yards and keeled over.

Could I have done the same thing with a 30-06? I guess I'll never know because I'm more comfortable shooting my .300 than I am with any other gun.

Extra power isn't an empty trade off, power does have it's perks. Everything has it's limitations, but what's wrong with not being a minimalist? I guess my question is, why not? What would a guy actually gain by downsizing just because you can? I bought this rifle to use, I couldn't care less if I've got more power than what I need, I just like the rifle and how accurate it is and sometimes the extra power comes in handy.

RE: Magnum haters?
 

In the instance you're talking about-at extremely close range,you CANNOT convince me that a 30-06 or some other cartridge would have let him run off wounded and that magnum made all the difference-in fact,ANY proper elk cartridge would have made that shot-as long as it was hit in right spot.
So you don't think a 35 whelen would've killed that elk as quick?

RE: Magnum haters?
 

No, I am not saying the .243 or 25-06 are Elk cartridges!
A 30-06 with the right bullets might have done the same job.

Sorry, but I thought this was really more about Whitetail sized game. In which case, a magnum is NOT needed!

In reality, for deer the .243 or 25-06 will kill them just as dead as any magnum!
For Elk, a magnum is NOT overkill, but within limits, the .270, .308, .280 and 30-06 will easily do the job.
The only time that a magnum as large as the .300 Rem. or larger is really "needed," is when you are hunting something that might want to bite you, or stomp your arse into a mud hole!
Or..... at very long ranges!
Which to me, (ultra longrange shots)borders more on shooting skills than hunting skills! While I am not knocking shooting skills, shooting skills are very important! But, some of the same people that blast things like baiting and other hunting methods, don't mind stretching the ranges beyond say, 400 yards!
If a hunter has the skill to make such shots, my hats off to you!But when you exceed 400 yards or so, (I'veheard the braggers evenspeak of 8, 900 yard shots) you are not doing much more than the guy thats a mediocre shooter, that is willing to pay high dollarto hunt high fence!
I have absolutly nothing against using "magnums," butin MOST cases they ARE NOT necessary!
And lastly, I stand by what I've stated before; I have yet to see the shooter that can CONSISTANTLY shoot a mag, better than they can shoot a smaller caliber!

RE: Magnum haters?
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: stalkingbear

In the instance you're talking about-at extremely close range,you CANNOT convince me that a 30-06 or some other cartridge would have let him run off wounded and that magnum made all the difference-in fact,ANY proper elk cartridge would have made that shot-as long as it was hit in right spot.
So you don't think a 35 whelen would've killed that elk as quick?




No I am not trying to convince you that a 30-06 would not have done the job. But I do not consider the 30-06 as a "Pea Shooter". I am talking about the guys who advocate using sub quarter bore cartridges.

However what I am saying is that I had 100% CONFIDENCE in what the 340 Wby. would do. I guess that is what I am really getting at.

I am confident in my ability to shoot. And I am confident in the cartridges I choose. That is all I am trying to say.

If a person can confidently shoot a "Pea Shooter", but is not capable of being proficient with a heavier cartridge, OR MAGNUM, then so be it. However when I lay down the big bucks for an elk or deer hunt, I want to have supreme confidence. Tom.

RE: Magnum haters?
 

i am sorry but the differance between a gut shot with a 243 and a 300 is the 300 just makes a bigger mess. i personally dont think shooting anything bigger than a .284 is necassary until you get up to moose sized game. i know to many idiots that go out and buy a 30 caliber guns to shoot whitetails and mule deer with and still never recover gut shot deer. bottom line is if you are one of those people that replace practice with bigger firepower you are stupid and dont belong in the woods.