Except that a .308 doesn't have a short case- its a bit shorter than a 30-06, but looks looong compared to any of the PPC cartridges which are about as wide as they are long in the body. A short fat case wouldn't explain why a .300 magnum or .338 lapua magnum is a better long range cartridge than the .308, let alone that the .223 is at at least as accurate as the .308. If you want to go shorter, one could claim by the same reasoning that the 7.62x39 cartridge should be much more accurate than the .308.

One can make a case for PPC cartridges being short and fat and accurate, but it just doesn't wash with the .308, its a completely different bird altogether.

shorter cartridges are more efficient, this is proven.
I dont own a .308 so dont think I am biased.
When I said 6mmbr I meant 6mm ppc

I own a .308 and a few 30-06s, and really don't have a bias either.

I know you are looking at the 2 standards, but What about the 30-tc? does everything the -06 does in a short action. the -06 outshines the 308 at long ranges with heavier bullets. [/align][/align]The .30 Shrinks Again[/align]T/C's first-ever proprietary round delivers big power from a small case.[/align]By Craig Boddington[/align][/align]

In 1903, the United States military adopted a rimless bottleneck cartridge for use in the new 1903 Springfield rifle. It featured a 220-grain round-nose bullet at 2,300 fps--fast for the day--but three years later, this round--our beloved .30-06--switched to a 150-grain spitzer bullet at 2,700 fps. That was real speed back then.





The first deer to fall to the .30 TC, which is shorter than the .308 but with punch equal to the .30-06.[/align]

Over time, though, engineers realized that, with different propellants and advancements in case design technology, the .30-06's 2.494-inch case was longer than it needed to be--a realization that eventually culminated in the development of the .308 Winchester, which produced 2,750 fps in a 2.015-inch case.


Today we have even more and even better propellants, and we know a lot more about how case design influences cartridge performance. Enter the .30 Thompson/Center, which is headstamped and will probably always be known as the .30 TC. The .308 Winchester is essentially a shortened .30-06 case; the .30 TC, in turn, is essentially a shortened .308 Winchester case. It uses the same .473-inch rim and case-head diameter, with minimal taper and similar shoulder angle. The primary difference is a case shortened to 1.920 inches. This makes it relatively short and fat for its length, which, as we now know, considerably enhances ignition and burning efficiency.

[align=right][/align][/align][/align][align=center][/align][/align][/align][/align]

A joint development between Thompson/Center and Hornady, the .30 TC is the first commercial centerfire cartridge to bear the TC headstamp. As of this writing, the cartridge is still in its infancy, and designers are still working to finalize all the exact dimensions. I had a chance to use the initial run of ammo in T/C Pro Hunter rifles, both on the range at the T/C factory and on the range and in the field on a Kentucky whitetail hunt. This still-experimental ammo featured a 150-grain Hornady SST bullet at 2,950 fps--whopping velocity from such a short case.


At the T/C factory, accuracy was astounding. In Kentucky, with just one .30 TC Pro-Hunter available (and just one load to try), accuracy was modest. This doesn't worry me. We know that burning efficiency is conducive to good accuracy. As production ammo rolls out of Grand Island, Nebraska, I assume that, in good barrels, the .30 TC will prove to be an extremely accurate cartridge.


There are, of course, other super-accurate .30-caliber cartridges (like the .308 Winchester), so what does the .30 TC offer? First, it's a new cartridge design. We Americans love our .30 calibers, and we know what .30-06-like performance can accomplish, so I assume the .30 TC will be successful. I also assume its very short case will almost immediately be necked this way and that. In time there will be other cartridges based on this case, and some may be better and more popular than the original.


Second, this level of performance from such a short case means that .30-06-like capabilities can be housed in extra-short actions. Hunters will look at it as a superb mountain cartridge to chamber in an ultra-light rifle. It has the potential to find favor with benchrest shooters as well.

This is a mud boggedChevy vs. Ford thread.

V8 chevy vs. straight 6 Ford that is.....

If I were in need of a .308ish based chambering I'd opt for the 7mm version and suffer better ballistics..............

If a 30 was the ONLY option, despite the '06 being one of my favorites, the 300 WSM will walk circles around the .308 win.

That would be a good one if you are ok with:
A. Ok with buying proprietary Hornady factory ammunition to get anything near the advertised velocities (you aren't going to get them by handloading)
B. you don't plan on using bullets bigger than 165gr. (a huge consideration if you are shooting long range)

BTW, Boddington's article is full of factual errors, not that its anything new from him or other gun scribblers.

Want long range performance in something that was made for handloading and short actions and skips all of the hype and hyperbole of all of the craptastic new 'tactical' or 'supershortmagnum' cartridges? Take a look at the 6.5 Creedmoor.

"Not only conceiveable, but people are actually doing just that- I've heard of people pushing 200 gr bullets to close to3000 fps using very slow powders such as rl-22 in the 30-06."

I have loaded the 200-grainer in the .30/'06 to as fast as I could get it to go safely with Norma N205, MRP, and RE22. It will do 2700 FPS, but with those three powders, I would not want to try for 3000 FPS with BRASS cases!! Ther may be some powder that will do it, but I do not know which one!

The 7.62X39mm is indeed a very accurate CARTRIDGEwhen loaded with precision and fired from an accurate rifle! The reason it appears to have such a sorry rep is easily expressed: SKS/AK 47!! After all, the PPC's are close derivatives of the 7.62X39mm via the ".220 Russian".......

Take the money that you were going to spend on a custom and get a Remington 700P in .308, then use the rest of the money to get a nice scope and reloading equipment. Once you shoot that one and learn how to load for it, then get yourself a custom LR rig.

308