Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

So for the past week or so all over the news here in IL has been on a gunman coming into a Lane Bryant Store and shooting/murdering 5 women with 1 survivor I believe. Here in IL we have some of the strictest gun laws if not the strictest in the nation and in Chicago one must register their guns. I was thinking how idiot these gun laws are, and I know in many states, particularly Arizona, one can fairly easily get a consealed weapons permit, I konw they take a class, I wonder how high gun violence is in this state? My point is that had 1 of these 5 women, or anyone else in the store had a concealed weapon, things would probably be very different, and a while back the virginia school shooting also could have been different. I even think about how many firearms owners in this state may own guns etc....but what good do they do locked up in a safe unloaded even if you're attacked in your own home, what are the odds you can get to a loaded weapon in time? vs. having a sidearm on you at all times? or more apt to be closer to your jacket etc...with your sidearm. Let's get concealed weapons permits approved in all states!

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

Arizona has concealed carry but also has open carry. It is quite a deterrent. I wish more people here would open carry.

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

You know I have heard little about open carry, which I think i read is legal in more states than concealed? ie holster on your hip? I think people are more comfy with concealed, out of site out of mind, though I'm for both, I'd take either one being legal in IL. or anywhere for that matter.

Why is it rocket science that criminals will always have / use guns illegally, and that responsible citizens won't be using them illegally / in a wreckless matter? I read somewhere that in the 1920's that women had pocket pistols and so did men, and people really weren't mugged because of this. Criminals knew people had pistols and would use them. Sounds pretty logical to me.

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

And plus we need weapons to protect ourselves from our own government, thats why the 2nd amendment exists in the first place. I plan on getting my concealed carry permit in the near future.

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

I dont think open carry is worth a flip, if for god bid you are thrust into an insident, you would be one of the first targets. It is documented that a person with a knife,within 10 pace's, can cut a subject faster than they can react and draw their firearm and shoot, why help them make you a target!. As for states with conceiled carry laws, the proof is in the pudding!, crime rates lower than the national average with the states that dont allow CCW. To go one step farther, the town of Kennesaw Georgia requires at least the head of household to be armed, crime in that part of the state is nill!. Look at it this way, if your the crook, are you going to be that brazen if you know your next victem could accually fight back and kill you? I dont think so!. If the school's and colledge campuss'es would commit part of their staff to learn weapons training and carry a concealed weapons, the outcomes of the school related shootings would diminish, would'nt stop, but the body counts would never be as high as they have been in the past!. A national CCW has been talked about in the past, it is growing legs everyday, more and more states are getting it finaly, even letting other states CCW permits to be used as long as you follow that states guidelines, unfortunatly, the up-comeing elections can put a sudden hault to this prossess, you can blame the brady-bunch and liberal government for this. I also dont beleive that everyone that can legally buy a firearm be allowed to carry without extensive training, it takes alot more than knowing how to operate it to be able to use it responcibly. Everyone should be able to compleate a self defence course, " not the normal course you receive to get your CCW, but a true to life course, how to use it, when to use it, alternatives, and the laws that pertain to takeing anothers life! for just the basics, this is more than a day course. Countless hours also are needed in shooting for self defence, going to the range once in a while, shooting targets doesnt cut it!, you need to practice defensive shooting, working senerios from contact shooting, shooting while seeking cover and every other perdicument that you might have to face. To sum it all up!, CCW is good as long as the person that carries a firearm for self defence does it with respocability, I read an article a while back that stated that," people who carry CCW are in fact a comunities security force", I happen to agrea with this statement, you are out there to protect more than just yourself!.

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

I think Washington state has some of the most liberal gun laws, basically you have to have a good reason NOT to get a concealed permit. I don't hear about too many of these things happening there.

However it could though. Most of these cases are buy people that purchased weapons legally and are carried out in areas where concealed weapons are not allowed anyway, even if you had a permit. Here in MI you can get one, but where you can actually carry is pretty limited.

Paul

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

Sorry to hear the mess happening in your state and nobody but the politicians and police having the means to defend themselves.

Regarding open carry making you a target, chances are the criminal is going to go away and look for an easier target. Especially if more than one person is carrying in an open manner. Contrary to popular belief, the vast majority of criminals like being alive, and therefore try to pick the weakest appearing targets they can find.

The biggest problem with open carry is all the morons who don't realize it is perfectly legal and are scared to death of even looking at a weapon. At least some places, even if open carry is legal, it doesn't seem to be uncommon for the idiots to call the police on open-carrying individuals even though the gun never leaves the holster and the carrier is not being hostile.

That is the sole reason I like concealed, particularly in states where you don't break the law if your firearm should happen to print or become visible (you reach for something on a shelf, etc). Of course concealed holsters aren't nearly as comfortable (to me anyway) as a good old fashioned outside the waistband holster, and the draw is between a little and significantly slower.

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

Regarding open carry making you a target, chances are the criminal is going to go away and look for an easier target. Especially if more than one person is carrying in an open manner. Contrary to popular belief, the vast majority of criminals like being alive, and therefore try to pick the weakest appearing targets they can find
Sandman, I am not contradicting you,you are correct to a point, but most hardened criminals, the ones that wouldnt care if they take anothers life, are not going to give you a warning and would make you the first target, how many times do you see and read about police being killed, they knew the cops had pistols on their side!. It comes down to suprise tatics really, unless you notice odd behavior on their point, and ready yourself for the threat, they will strike only after checking their surrondings to see if they will be able to get away with it!. Now ifthey see a pistol on you, and you are the only one tostand in their way, and they see an opertunity to get away with it, they will attack you first, and probably be able to overcome you and kill you with your own weapon!, it has happened many times in the past!, which is also the same reason for constant practice!. In your own mind you need to think about what you would do if someone cassualy walks up in front of you and assults you, how fast do you think you can react to that!, nine times out of ten, you wouldnt be able to react fast enough to walk away un-injured if not dead!, those are slim odds!. That is why concealled is a better method of carry compared to open!, if he dont see it he wont know its there!, and not see you as an immediate threat!.

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

My understanding is you can't even own a handgun in Chicago. That's thanks to Liberals like Osama Obama...

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

wow even here in MA I can carry concealed even though I had to jump through hoops to get a class A licence. But if anyone sees my gun I can get arrested for brandishment. But I feel much better with one on my side.

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

I am in Mass for school and even to have a long gun here is a pain in the ass. I want to get my concealled carry for back home in NY but they make you jump through so many hoops and make it so inconvienent that I haven't done it yet...which is really what they want. They can't make it illegal (yet) but they can make it so difficult that people don't get it.

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

It because of this, and many other recent shootings I am investing in a high quality concealed carry pistol.

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

Unless you live somewhere that has open carry or have spent some time there, you probably wouldn't understand. Most bad guys are not going to walk into a busy place and try to hold them up knowing that any one of the people standing around might be packing. Open carry does catch some people off guard and they freak out seeing a gun. Especially our immigrants from that liberal state to the west.

The law states that it can't be concealed. All that needs to be showing is the holster or butt of the gun. You can be within the law and still not be conspicuous. You see a lot of motorcycle riders carrying here too. I think that it helps cuts down on road rage. :)

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

Which only proves that the most repressive gun laws do not work.

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

I know several guys that have their Concealed Carry License and if someone would ever come into a place where they are and starting shooting innocent by-standers I hope like heck they would protect theirselfs and others in there.Most of them know how to use a gun and wouldn't beaffraid to use it.Look at how many people have been shot or killed in our Schools,Churches and Courts!I know of a few Churches that lock their doors after everyone has come in and they have hall and door monitors with walkie talkies....it is shame what we have to do to protect ourselfs now a days!

There have been several shootings and deaths where I live,our own neighbor was going to get her belongings and leave her husband because of personal problems,he shot and killed her,killed his brother in-law,shot and wounded his son in-law,shot at and missed his sister in-lawand then shot himself.There was a shooting in Kirkwood Mo. (St. Louis area) where a guy went into a town meeting and killed several people including a Police Officer.

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

All of which prohibit concealed carry fire arms, so the permit would do you no good unless you were willing to carry illegally. So in reality why bother with getting the permit?

Paul

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

Less than have died from choking on an ice cube...

Not a good argument.

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

There is just no evidence, and never has been that any "gun control" law or regulation has ever had any tendency to reduce violent crime, or even GUN CRIME!

Back in the days of Prohibition, when people like Al Capone & Co. wer murdering each other and everyone else daily, organized crime got over 90% of their guns by stealing them from the police, national Gurad Armories, and elsewhere. Gun laws are BS, always have been, and some are even a JOKE. Here in PA right now, some moron in the state legislature has proposed that ALL BULLETS and CARTRIDEGE CASES have microscopic SERIAL NUMBERS stamped on themso when they are used in crimes, they can go arrest the person that bought them! IF such idiocy was not so serious, it would be FUNNY! Can you imagine the poor dealers and the poor cops, or whoever, trying to keep records of all those damned numbers??? Geez, this is an insanity worthy of the Governator of Kally-fornia, right here in PA. I hope the rest of the PA legislators get a hugh belly laugh out of this one!!

(I wonder if the bozo who dreamed this up knows that OVER 1 MILLION ROUNDS of .22 LR ammo alone is fired int he U.S. EVERY DAY!!)

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

Open carry in WI is legal, but NOBODYdoes. I believe it is because there are too many secondary restrictions that make it impractical. For example, I don't think you can carry loaded in a vehicle, open or otherwise. Then there is the schools issue, 1000' I believe. Most people in WI would **** if they saw someone walk into a store carrying, or even on a city street.

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

I thought that Illinois and Wisconsin were two of the three states that could not do the open Carry.

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

Nv is open carry except lil ca ah I mean Clark co (Vegas) , state and federal office property . The federal /public lands for the pourpuse of hunting is ok to to carry conceled . Open season for coyotes /and all wild dogs , lions/cats , and jack rabbits , all an enforcement officer askes is that let them know its there before they find it and that there is" not around in the immediate firing chamber" 4 in a 6 gun .

RE: Recent Gun Violence in IL
 

I liked the law that was in effect in New Mexico when I lived there in the 1950's...."One must disarm when entering a settlement." This was open to interpretation. Most places I went, I carried a handgun (.45 COLT) openly, with a cartridge belt full of ammo, and unloaded it when I got to atown... No-one ever said a word to me about it.