MUZZLE BRAKE ????'s
06-05-2017, 04:58 PM
#21
Spike
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 1
Quiet MB?
I shoot the .300 WM.
I am considering a muzzle brake. But not too familiar with any of them.
So I ask yous guys . . . Which one do you recommend that will maintain maximum accuracy? Minimize (most)recoil? Not deafen three counties? And what would I expect to pay a gunsmith for it as well as instalation?
Anything alse would be appreciated.
I am considering a muzzle brake. But not too familiar with any of them.
So I ask yous guys . . . Which one do you recommend that will maintain maximum accuracy? Minimize (most)recoil? Not deafen three counties? And what would I expect to pay a gunsmith for it as well as instalation?
Anything alse would be appreciated.
06-05-2017, 05:51 PM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,186
There is no such thing.
I strongly suggest you use other options like a limbsaver recoil pad, mercury recoil reducers, weight, etc... etc...
You should wear hearing protection every single time you fire a rifle with a brake on it including when you are hunting.
WhenI am at the range and someone sits down next to me with a brake on their rifle I double up on my hearing protection with plugs and muffs no matter if they are shooting a .223 or a 300 ultra mag. They are all extremely loud.
I strongly suggest you use other options like a limbsaver recoil pad, mercury recoil reducers, weight, etc... etc...
You should wear hearing protection every single time you fire a rifle with a brake on it including when you are hunting.
WhenI am at the range and someone sits down next to me with a brake on their rifle I double up on my hearing protection with plugs and muffs no matter if they are shooting a .223 or a 300 ultra mag. They are all extremely loud.
06-05-2017, 06:19 PM
#24
Typical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 995
But still a viable topic and one with some new technology. The new L6 cone breaks are just one of many with the forward break system. My dad had one on his 7mm08 AR made for him several years ago. It wasn't the L6 but was similar technology. I have to say it is much quieter than any break I have seen. I think it actually dampens the sound a bit. Not much but a couple of decibels. I know his AR is quieter than my 7mm08 bolt rifle. Now before you ask why the old man had a break installed on a 7mm08, that rifle was purpose built for longer range hog shooting so he wanted to minimize as much muzzle lift as possible so he could get on another hog in the pack if he ran across a sounder at range. But he didn't want something that would blow his hunting buddies ears to hell.
06-05-2017, 08:28 PM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,905
One thing which changed in the almost 10yrs since this thread was last posted was Vais going out of business. Sadly so, they were a very good break.
What may have also changed considerably in the 10yrs is the selection and availablity of suppressors. I don't recall more than two or three locations in Kansas which had them available in 2008, whereas there are probably a half dozen shops just on the close aide of Wichita to me which sell them now. While they might not break recoil quite as much as a rearward directing brake, the reduction is substantial, and the noise reduction is even moreso. If the HPA passes, my son might never know what an non-suppressed centerfire rifle even sounds like.
What may have also changed considerably in the 10yrs is the selection and availablity of suppressors. I don't recall more than two or three locations in Kansas which had them available in 2008, whereas there are probably a half dozen shops just on the close aide of Wichita to me which sell them now. While they might not break recoil quite as much as a rearward directing brake, the reduction is substantial, and the noise reduction is even moreso. If the HPA passes, my son might never know what an non-suppressed centerfire rifle even sounds like.
06-06-2017, 07:33 AM
#26
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Martin, TN
Posts: 854
06-06-2017, 09:18 AM
#27
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Maine & northern FloRida
Posts: 195
06-07-2017, 03:49 AM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 2,568
If you own a rife with a muzzle break on it you had better be retired if you want to shoot it on our club range. Open twice a week for rifle shooters with breaks Tuesday morning at 9:00 AM till noon. Thursday afternoon from noon to 4:00 PM.
No one wants all that noise blasting them while shooting.
Do suppressors cut the felt recoil or just reduce the noise?
I have my 300 wm Mag Na Ported. Cuts the felt recoil without all the noise.
Al
No one wants all that noise blasting them while shooting.
Do suppressors cut the felt recoil or just reduce the noise?
I have my 300 wm Mag Na Ported. Cuts the felt recoil without all the noise.
Al
06-07-2017, 10:25 AM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,905
The short version: Suppressors significantly cut actual recoil, not just noise. Can't do one without the other - noise is reduced by reducing the velocity of the propellant gases as they release from the rifle and slowing those gases reduces their contribution to recoil.
The long version for those interested: A suppressor "quiets" the muzzle blast by slowing down propellant gases, which also reduces recoil. Brakes and suppressors reduce recoil differently: Brakes redirect the gases, which actually creates a partial forward force as the gases slam into the front edges of the ports and are redirected at high velocity. Suppressors expose the escaping gases to a tortuous path, slowing ("letting down") the gases to reduce the muzzle blast as they reach atmospheric pressure.
Most guys never consider how much our charge weight contributes to recoil, but it's relatively substantial. For those not familiar with the formula for recoil velocity calculation:
Recoil Velocity = [(mass of bullet x velocity of bullet) + (mass of charge x velocity of gases)] / mass of rifle
*For those keeping track, this is nothing more than the law of conservation of momentum, solved for velocity of the rifle.
For a conventional bottleneck cartridge, SAAMI lists the STANDARD for unsuppressed propellant gas velocity is 1.75 times greater than that of the bullet. So in a 30-06, running a 150grn bullet at 2950fps over 50grns of powder, if you consider how much recoil velocity comes from the bullet and how much comes from the powder (converting grains to pounds mass to scale the numerical results, otherwise not worrying about weight vs. mass):
Bullet momentum = 150grn x 2950fps / 7000grn/lbm = 63.2 lbmft/sec
Prop Gas momentum: 50 x 1.75 x 2950 / 7000 = 36.9 lbmft/sec
Total = 36.9 + 63.2 = 100.1 on the rifle.
So a touch over 35% of a rifles recoil is from the gases (in this case). Slow those gases down to 75% of the bullet speed instead of 175% and you reduce total recoil by 21%.
Another way of looking at it - because the propellant gases are traveling faster than the bullet, even though they are only 50grns, act as if they were an extra 87grns of bullet weight. We're all familiar with what shooting more bullet weight at the same velocity means in terms of increased recoil. By slowing the gases down to 75%, those 50grns only act like 37.5grn of bullet - a 50grn swing compared to the unsuppressed contribution. So comparing a suppressed vs. non suppressed 30-06 is VERY similar to comparing that 150grn 30-06 to a 100grn .243win.
Not to mention - you're adding usually 3/4 - 1 lb of rifle weight by adding a suppressor, which slows recoil velocity by another ~10%, AND positioning it at the muzzle helps reduce muzzle rise as well.
The long version for those interested: A suppressor "quiets" the muzzle blast by slowing down propellant gases, which also reduces recoil. Brakes and suppressors reduce recoil differently: Brakes redirect the gases, which actually creates a partial forward force as the gases slam into the front edges of the ports and are redirected at high velocity. Suppressors expose the escaping gases to a tortuous path, slowing ("letting down") the gases to reduce the muzzle blast as they reach atmospheric pressure.
Most guys never consider how much our charge weight contributes to recoil, but it's relatively substantial. For those not familiar with the formula for recoil velocity calculation:
Recoil Velocity = [(mass of bullet x velocity of bullet) + (mass of charge x velocity of gases)] / mass of rifle
*For those keeping track, this is nothing more than the law of conservation of momentum, solved for velocity of the rifle.
For a conventional bottleneck cartridge, SAAMI lists the STANDARD for unsuppressed propellant gas velocity is 1.75 times greater than that of the bullet. So in a 30-06, running a 150grn bullet at 2950fps over 50grns of powder, if you consider how much recoil velocity comes from the bullet and how much comes from the powder (converting grains to pounds mass to scale the numerical results, otherwise not worrying about weight vs. mass):
Bullet momentum = 150grn x 2950fps / 7000grn/lbm = 63.2 lbmft/sec
Prop Gas momentum: 50 x 1.75 x 2950 / 7000 = 36.9 lbmft/sec
Total = 36.9 + 63.2 = 100.1 on the rifle.
So a touch over 35% of a rifles recoil is from the gases (in this case). Slow those gases down to 75% of the bullet speed instead of 175% and you reduce total recoil by 21%.
Another way of looking at it - because the propellant gases are traveling faster than the bullet, even though they are only 50grns, act as if they were an extra 87grns of bullet weight. We're all familiar with what shooting more bullet weight at the same velocity means in terms of increased recoil. By slowing the gases down to 75%, those 50grns only act like 37.5grn of bullet - a 50grn swing compared to the unsuppressed contribution. So comparing a suppressed vs. non suppressed 30-06 is VERY similar to comparing that 150grn 30-06 to a 100grn .243win.
Not to mention - you're adding usually 3/4 - 1 lb of rifle weight by adding a suppressor, which slows recoil velocity by another ~10%, AND positioning it at the muzzle helps reduce muzzle rise as well.
06-09-2017, 03:37 PM
#30
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW Montana
Posts: 550
I shoot the .300 WM.
I am considering a muzzle brake. But not too familiar with any of them.
So I ask yous guys . . . Which one do you recommend that will maintain maximum accuracy? Minimize (most)recoil? Not deafen three counties? And what would I expect to pay a gunsmith for it as well as instalation?
Anything alse would be appreciated.
I am considering a muzzle brake. But not too familiar with any of them.
So I ask yous guys . . . Which one do you recommend that will maintain maximum accuracy? Minimize (most)recoil? Not deafen three counties? And what would I expect to pay a gunsmith for it as well as instalation?
Anything alse would be appreciated.
Old post, but so what? It's an ongoing question.
I put KDF muzzle brakes on my .375 RUM and on my .300 Weatherby, along with Limbsaver pads and in stock recoil reducers. Both of these cartridges are burning 30-40% more powder than a .30-06 or 7mm Rem mag, so they are loud with or with out the brake.
Before I had the brake installed on my .375 RUM I couldn't stand to shoot it enough to develop loads for it. After I had the brake installed, I took that rifle on two African hunts shooting a variety of animals from Steenboks to Buffalo, and some from prone positions, all with no recoil issues.
I often take two or more rifles to the range so that I can alternate shooting them to allow the barrels to cool. My .300 Weatherby and my .308 Win are both Weatherby vanguards of about equal weight and fit. Both have Limbsaver pads. The .300 Wby has a KDF brake and a mechanical recoil reducer.
The felt recoil of the .300 Weatherby is noticeably less that the recoil of the .308 Win.
As for accuracy, I feel that my shooting accuracy is improved with the reduction of the recoil of my rifles, as I can concentrate on the trigger squeeze and I can keep cheek contact with the stock after the shots.