Can Someone Explain to Me
 

I am having a problem digesting these ammo price increases. I realize metal prices have increased but give me a break. I mostly reload, but I do shoot factory in my AR's, and at the price of shot it is cheaper to buy factory rounds.

This is what I can not figure out. If a normal $10 box of ammowent up $5 that is one thing. Butthe premium ammohas went up as much as $20 a box. How can metal increase effect inexpensive ammo only $5, buteffect premium ammo by $20??? Does premium amm have more lead and brass in it,as compared to inexpensive ammo??? I do not think so.

I think we are being SCREWED!!! What can we do about it???

I feel the same way about bullets, and all components. The premium bullet companies are really laying it on heavy. What can we do??? Tom.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

About the only thing we can do is bend over and take it. [:@]

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

I know for sure that I will cast alot more of my bullet's this year, than what I did in the past. I always shot jacketed bullets out of my 30 caliber's, but I will be buying a 30 caliber mould this year. And I will be spending more time shooting my 45-70's. The only jacketed bullet I will shoot this year is for my 22 caliber ground hog rifles, and I bought 2400 bullets in December, so I will be good for a long time. Tom.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

I would hate to see it if you had to buy slugs. My coppersolids went from 12 dollars a box, to well over 15. Thats a bunch of crap.I can see the XM193 surplus going up as they are not making any more.

IMO, they are screwing us. Even if the price of copper doubled, you raw product only went from 20cents to 40cents.

Petro and energy prices and the weak dollar comes in play too. Making the product takes energy. I have a feeling this has more to do with it than anything.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

Oh yeah Big time minus the vaseline

What can we do not buy them and they will lower their prices. Midwayusa is one of the worst perpetrators as is Cabelas,Gander, Basspro. DOn't buy ammo or any componentsfrom those clowns. No reason why I canwalk into a local mom and pop store and buy premium ammo for 10-15 dollars less a box then what the above mentioned retailers sell their stuff for and I bet they don't get the quanitity discounts they get either. Call them up and complain about their prices..sooner or later it will sink in .

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

It is unfortunate simple economics. There is now a developed market for premium ammunition.Ammunition companies use these products to create a high profit margin. In short it is all about business and as usual it is all about the money. The same reason that the new Remington 798 cost $100.00 more than it did last year when it was sold by Charles Daily. Anyone who thinks that the American sporting goods industry actually cares about the American sportsmen is mistaken.
Please don't misunderstand,I am all for profit and successful business,but things are getting a bitout of hand. And as an added bonus quality cntinues to be underwhelming.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

+1 on that

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

Jeez...I hate to get political with this...but you can thank the current administration for the total mess the economy in general is in. We are in a flat out reccession!

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

one word war

5.56 or .223 ammo is the ammo the govt and nato uses in there service weapons so the longer we fight the war on terror the higher and higher it will be

but after the war i think it will drop alot.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

how is it bush's fault for the cost of ammo
would you prefer gore and Kerry was elected and they took our guns away the surrendered the country to osama

Were fighting two wars soon tobe a third with Iran
and there are uncountable conflicts in other country's AfricaSudan so on those country's and militant groups are buying all the ammo they can

If you look the cost of brass and cobber and lead has gone up all over the country.
i took some scrap copper pipes in a scrap yard 6 months ago then a month ago and it went up 25cents a pound for scrap

it is not bush who caused it but it will be bushwho fixes it.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

Take up reloading!!!

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

They're trying to make their money NOW. The understand that the sheep in this country are going to let the Dems get control and there will not be a need much longer for ammo and components.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

This trend started many years ago. It has very little to do with any currrent political situations. The biggest example is the post 64 Winchester. A rifle designed strictly for lower production cost(I don't actually disagree with this as long as quality does not suffer) and ease of production. Craftsmenship was not a consideration. Speaking as someone who has been in the business I can say first hand that in many cases at the S.H.O.T. Show you see the European exhibits touting quality,while the American manufactuers focus on low cost importation. In general many companies would rather spend money on marketing than production.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

Must be the Big Ammunition cartel sticking it to the little man. Yeah!
[:-]

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

I have 3 reasons.

MONEY MONEY MONEY

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

I am just curious. Do any of you guys work for a large company and work on thier financials, or budget, or operating cost to publicly disclose to traders or wall street? I admit I don't either. But did you guys think that when petrolium hit over 80 dollars a barrel, and all raw cost doubled in the last 2 years, there wouldn't be any change in operating cost? To build just about anything takes some sort of chemical from oil. Whether it being benzene, or lubercation, or just the heating process.

Guys, every one of you want as much as you can get from your employer money wise. Don't be so shocked and shooken, when investers do too. Be glad you live in a free country.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

Well said BC. Has anyone ever noticed the sir charge for fuel lately on transport. It all add up one way or another...

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

Does anyone know what kind of markup there is on ammo? I repeat how is my mom and pop dealer able to sell ammo substantially cheaper then the big retailers and still make a living. It is Greed and using raw material shortages as an excuse for these rises in ammuntion prices. If anyone doesn't believe there is a bit of gouging going on I have some Idaho oceanfront property for sale

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

I can’t explain about mark up but I do know that raw material and fuel prices have gone up. Has anyone gone out to purchase a spool of 14/2 copper wire lately!!!

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

Well, could be many things old. I myself, like you I suppose, stop at mom and pops all over the place. I myself have yet to see any mom and pop in a 100 mile radius that is cheaper than bass pro, cheaper than dirt, or the rest. Thats just me. But I have yet to see it in the MD, WV, Ky, Va area. Mom and pop does not go thru ammo like bass pro, and could be just selling for the margin they planned 1 year or more ago when they bought it. Its sounds like you got yourself a nice relationship with a mom and pop down there, that has some awesome prices. But I assure you, all independents are not this cheap.


But all that said, I do see your point somewhat. For instance, when I bought a 300RUM when it first came out, you could buy it for 30 dollars a box. But i notice lately people telling me its 50 dollars a box. So I see both sides.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

On some of our R&D products we are workin on, we use solid gold for use of coatings, and its killing us. Over 800 dollars an ounce

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

Oh absolutely right on that most are not anywhere that cheap. He almost apologizes anytime I bring ammo to the counter to check out.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

OEH, next time your over there, could you check how much 2.75" remington coppersolid 1oz slugs are there. This is the whats kicking me in the butt right now.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

BC sent you a pm

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

"About the only thing we can do is bend over and take it."

Spoken like a model "screw-ee!" This attitude is what the "screw-ers" love to hear.

"I think we are being SCREWED!!! What can we do about it???"

I agree with your hypothesis. A price increase due to metal prices and transportation costs (ie, oil pricces) would pretty much cause a relatively uniform increase in the price of all ammo, not just that which is loaded with premium components.

We ARE being screwed, and just as with gasoline prices, you can bitch all you want, BUT our only weapon is to reduce demand. IF we keep buying at the present rate, nothing will change. IF we cut down on the amount we buy, and the ammo starts clogging up the distribution system, prices will drop.

I say stop buying factory ammo. Eithershoot less, or reload your brass- and use cast bullets wherever possible!

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

I don't know how you figure this, but I hate to bust your bubble. Far from being in a mess, the U.S. economy today is in better shape than it has ever been. Just one example is the fact that the stock markets are clsong these days higher than ever before in history. There is on e nbig sore spot, however, the current price of oil. If anyone is to blame for that, it is OPEC. And the last time I checked, the President of the U.S. has no control at all over OPEC. Actually, Hugo Chavez has more to say about what OPEC does thangeorge Bush has. NEITHER major party has done a damn thing to reduce our dependency on foreign oil - only the people at large can do that-by using less gasoline!! We as a nation have become so used to waiting for the government to save us that we've forgotten that ultimately, we are individually responsible for our own fates.....

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

I just looked at the price for 50 rounds of Win. .218 Bee from Sportsman's Guide. This stuff has always sold for 5X-6X what it cost me to load the same number of rounds in new cases, BUT $66.00+ per box is a tad on thge ridiculous side!

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

I agree. I feel the same about saboted slugs these days. I was telling someone they are up to 3-4 dollars a shot. Thats premium dangerous game ammo. And they can't say its because of low sales. There are a whole lot of slug only states these days.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY. HOWEVER ELDEQUELLO PUT IT MUCH MORE ELEGANTLY.

I worked in the hunting industry for years. And the company I worked for was the largest ammunition distributor in the world. And I can say with 100% confidence that the retail price of premium ammo is not based on the cost to manufacture. It is based solely on what they think they can get.

I remember when Winchester "Supreme" ammo came out. The mfr. was giving sales incentives of close to $1.00 a box for every box I sold. At the same time if I sold a box of SuperX I made $.06---yes 6 cents. IWOULD REALLY LIKE SOMEONE TO EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THIS AMMUNITION COSTS MORE TO MFR. OH YA THE BRASS WAS MORE SHINY!!

Why do you think the mfrs. are so excited about all the new cartridges?? The 17HMR is a 22 magnum case!! The 17 caliber bullet weighs less-so it has less raw materials. But yet the ammo sold at a premium of 65% over 22 magnum ammo. Give me a break. THE 17HMR IS THE BIGGEST GIMMICK THE SHOOTING INDUSTRY HAS HAD IN A LONG TIME. Tom.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

I can remember selling 12 gauge slugs for $1.75 a box. I made a whopping 2 cents per box on that sale.

Slug prices are up because the mfr. wants or needs to make X amount of dollars for every box of ammo sold. It does not matter if it is a 5, 10, 20, 40, or 50 round box. They do not base their markup on a percentage. They base it on per box sold. Why do you think they do not sell slugs in a 25 round box?? They do not sell them that way because hunter's would split a box. And to the mfr. that is a NO NO. That would mean only one profit amount instead of two. The day's of retail cost based on mfr. costs are long gone.

The easy way to prove this is with turkey loads. Why do you think they went to a 10 round box. Then all you read about in the gun magazines is "well since you only have to buy ten rounds you can go out and buy several boxes to experiment with in your shotgun". Then after you get the load you want you have to go out and buy another box, because you do not have enough to hunt with. YA RIGHT. Tom.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

My two cents. All of the brass and copper that was used to make our ammo has been allocated to the war effort. The demand for those raw materials onced used to build our ammo is very high. Thus driving up prices. We need to get on the phone, speak with your local ammo representative and demand answers. Anybody gets a number...post it....we will all call them.

Heck, I paid $180 for 100 count 30-378 brass and it is now 250 bucks a little over a year later.

I understand the fuel prices going up and I work for a large manufacturer of building products. We ship trucks all over the US and Canada and have had minimal price increases due to gas prices.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

That is not a price gauge. That is creating a new Grand Canyon. Tom.

RE: Can Someone Explain to Me
 

Helloooooooooooooooooooooo we have been getting the shaft for a very long time .
A box of 38 spec costs about 4 bucks w xtp's and 357's cost about 5.25 so a box of 38 lrn's are 8.00 and a box of 357 sp's are 19.00 at "Moe's baitshop" . Try 60.00 per 100 in bulkpack for 45 Colts at the ultimate toy store . I bought a BPS about 10 yrs ago and paid 300.00 all but new asking price now is 550 plus fees and the bbl I paid 135 for 6 yrs ago is 245 now . Of course I guess fuel doubling last year is excuse enough .