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Argintine Mauser?

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Argintine Mauser?

Old 12-27-2007, 01:52 PM
  #11  
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Default RE: Argintine Mauser?

ORIGINAL: Solitary Man

eldeguello covered it nicely (as he always does). I've got one of these rifles too, though mine was made by DWM (Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken). It's all original except for the crest havingbeen ground off. My grandfather bought it years ago and I ended up with it when he passed away in '73. I use if for hunting occassionally, but nota lotas I don't care muchfor hunting with iron sights.

The cartridge is in factthe 7.65x53 or 7.65mm Argentine. Norma makes ammo for it. Imostly shoot handloads inmine using150 gr.Hornadyor Sierra bullets. Sierra bullets are .311" in diameter while Hornadys are .312". I getbetter accuracy with Hornadys.
Thanks for the kind words. Here's how .308" bullets shoot in mine, loaded in Norma brass... This 100-metergroup was shot with both Sierra and Nosler Partition 200-grain bullets. In my 29" barrel, the MV is over 2650 FPS. This makes a hell of a great long-range sniper rifle! With the Sierra bullet, it delivers 1500 foot/pounds of energy at 600 yards!


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Old 12-28-2007, 09:35 PM
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Default RE: Argintine Mauser?

how do you tell what is the exact round for the rifle ? can a gunsmith check the bore ?
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Old 12-30-2007, 07:20 AM
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Bought the rifle . Thing looks pretty dang good ,wood not beat all to crap.Blue on mag very good shape.rifling look good ,But I have not put a brush and some good stuff down it yet to get the real picture.Been to busy trying to set up that Brownie.Soon as I figure out how to post pics. I will put some on here[8D].
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Old 12-30-2007, 08:36 AM
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ORIGINAL: brush buster

how do you tell what is the exact round for the rifle ? can a gunsmith check the bore ?
You don't need a gunsmith to tell you that the cartridge for the Modelo Argentino 1891 or Modelo Argentino M 1909is the 7.65X53mm Mauser round. (BUT, it isa good idea to have a gunsmith check the HEADSPACE on any old military rifle before it is fired. Unless the previous owner has been shooting it with no problems!)

This particular cartridge WAS designed by Paul Mauser, UNLIKE the 57mm-long ones of various calibersthat are all based on the 7.8X57mmJ (8X57J) cartridge which, although called "the 8mm Mauser", is not a Mauser cartridgeat all, but was designed by the Prussian Infantry Rifle Commission, along with the Gewehr 1888 rifle. Paul Mauser favored cartridges SHORTER than 57mm. That's why this one is only 53mm long. The 7.65X53mm roundwas used by Argentina, a couple of other latin American armies, Turket & Belgium at least. Belgium used it in their M1889 rifle, which has the same single-row protruding magazine box in front of the trigger guard as does the Modelo Arg. 1891.

Funny thing is that all the later "Mauser" cartridges using 57mm-long cases to shoot bullets ranging from .224 all the way up to 9.3 are made by necking the M1888 Commision cartridge up and downand calling them "Mauser", when they weren't Mauser desgns at all...........
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Old 12-31-2007, 12:01 AM
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eldeg...my hat is off to you. Your gun knowledge is amazing!
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Old 12-31-2007, 09:39 AM
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Nice shooting eldequello. And you're getting 2650 with 200 grain bullets? Heck I'm only getting that or a little more with 150 gr. bullets in mine (29" barrel also), though I'm not trying to push the envelope with my loads. Course the rough bore might have something to do with that too, it has a lot in common with sandpaper. Even so, it shoots pretty well. Here's a picture of a 50 yard group with the Hornadys:



Notice that I aimed at the bottom point of the diamond. It shoots 5" high at 50 yards! I have to remember to compensate for that when I'm hunting with it.
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Old 01-01-2008, 01:29 PM
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Default RE: Argintine Mauser?

You don't need a gunsmith to tell you that the cartridge for the Modelo Argentino 1891 or Modelo Argentino M 1909is the 7.65X53mm Mauser round. (BUT, it isa good idea to have a gunsmith check the HEADSPACE on any old military rifle before it is fired. Unless the previous owner has been shooting it with no problems!)
I'm not sure about the 1891s, but a lot of 1909s were reamed to chamber 30-06 to extend the service life of the rifle due to the endless suply of surplus 30-06 ammo from sugar daddy Uncle Sam.
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Old 01-01-2008, 02:28 PM
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Default RE: Argintine Mauser?

ORIGINAL: Solitary Man

Nice shooting eldequello. And you're getting 2650 with 200 grain bullets? Heck I'm only getting that or a little more with 150 gr. bullets in mine (29" barrel also), though I'm not trying to push the envelope with my loads. Course the rough bore might have something to do with that too, it has a lot in common with sandpaper. Even so, it shoots pretty well. Here's a picture of a 50 yard group with the Hornadys:



Notice that I aimed at the bottom point of the diamond. It shoots 5" high at 50 yards! I have to remember to compensate for that when I'm hunting with it.
Well, that's a nice group also that you have there. You have to keep in mind that my rifle is a Model 1909. When I got my rifle, the stock wood showed evidence of rough handling, but the metal parts appeared new, including the bore. No evidence of having ever been fired.

I worked up that 200-grain load using IMR 4350 powder and .308", rather than .311" or .314", bullets. I ran out of space for more powder in the cases with those 200-grain bullets and never encountered anysigns of excessive pressures with that load, although it may be excessive in many rifles. I've heard that some of the M1909's have soft receivers and that the bolt can set back the locking surfaces in the receiver with slightly high pressures, resulting in excessive headspace. Mine has NOT done that, even with 52.5 grains of IMR 4350 behind those 200-grain bullets. You may have noted that two of those three shots had identical instrumental velocity readings at 10' from the muzzle (2691 FPS).
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:12 AM
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I suppose if I had the 1909 I might also be inclined to experiment with some stronger loads. However, with the 1891 I don't want to push my luck. To be honest, these days I don't do any serious load development with it. Haven't hunted with it in a couple of years in fact. I take it to the range once or twice a year to knock the dust off of it.
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:50 AM
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Default RE: Argintine Mauser?

ORIGINAL: Solitary Man

I suppose if I had the 1909 I might also be inclined to experiment with some stronger loads. However, with the 1891 I don't want to push my luck. To be honest, these days I don't do any serious load development with it. Haven't hunted with it in a couple of years in fact. I take it to the range once or twice a year to knock the dust off of it.
I agree with you. I would NOT want to stretch things with an M91 either. The rifle is just as effective at .300 Savage ballistics levels anyway! I have never hunted with mine. Every time I get ready to go hunting, just selecting the rifle gets to be a real pain! That's why I've been using flintlocks alot lately!
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