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RE: DRT Frangible Ammo
So basically what you are saying is that you feel so confident about the product, its ballistics, it killing power, and itstechnologythat your willing to give all of us simple people a free box to test it against our current bullet of choice and report back to you what we feel is better for our hunting styles?
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RE: DRT Frangible Ammo
OK...they are just a gimmick, that is why the counter snipers that guard our President use them, and why DevGRU uses them, and why the AMU has thousands of them in storage and refuses to use them because they are an "unfair advantage against civiilians" in comps like Camp Perry. I guess a few of you geniuses should know, that the last time I checked, the Secret Service Counter snipers have markmanship skills, and do practice.......NavSurfWarDEVGRU has an ammo budget larger than some countries GNP.....we know they practice. When it comes to killing, tissue damage is the measure. In the real world, lead bullets don't hold a candle to this new technology. And who on earth could say "just shoot them in the gut"? That sounds incredibly unethical to me. At least that is what I was taught. |
RE: DRT Frangible Ammo
Sounds like the Extreme Shock ammo, except for rifles....
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RE: DRT Frangible Ammo
If we can get past all of the BS from the guys who have not used this technology, and truly know nothing about it, I think I can explain how the technology works, and perhaps some will see it has real utility in some applications. Lets get some facts on the table upfront.....
1. I do not advocate gut shooting an animal, it is not necessary. I will never advocate this. 2. There are two schools of thought concerning terminal ballistics in a hunting environment. The first is "Don't over penetrate, use all of energy of the projectile to cause tissue damage." The second school of thought is, "Make sure you have a large exit wound so the blood trail is easy to track." Although both methods will kill game, we know that the first method is more efficient and will kill quicker, all other criteria being equal. We know this from Fackler's research, and from live tissue tests and other data collected. I much prefer an animal to fall in his tracks, I know right where to find him, especially on dangerous game. No one wants to follow a blood trail into tall grass or dense brush looking for a wounded brown bear, no matter how good the 'blood trail' is........Deleted by CalHunter... 3. DRT bullets are not the same technology as 'Extreme Shok' ammo. The cores are different and the jackets are different. The lead bullet engineer has several tools at his disposal when designing a bullet for a specific application...... A. Jacket thickness and shape B. Percent alloy of lead and antimony (more antimony = harder core) C. Bonding of core to jacket. D. Tip design, (hollow point, lead point, polymer tipped) The DRT engineer has several additional tools that effect bullet performance in a profound way..... A. Core compression B. Percent binder added to the tungsten C. The size and shape of the tungsten particle |
RE: DRT Frangible Ammo
So what happens if they hit bone?
They sound like a great varmint round, I may pick up some for the .243 and give them a try, or just wait and get some from my Secret Service friends....if they even use them....:eek: |
RE: DRT Frangible Ammo
Boy !! Thanks for enlightening us !! I know for one that I feel much better about it now. ...Deleted by CalHunter...
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RE: DRT Frangible Ammo
ORIGINAL: S1 I find it amazing that some shooters here have never tested the technology, but some how know exactly how it will perform? Do tell, where do you get your crystal ball? "Yet another gimmick comes down the pipe that thousands of people will come running after with money in hand hoping yet again this will make up for their lack of practice and decent marksmanship skills......." OK...they are just a gimmick, that is why the counter snipers that guard our President use them, and why DevGRU uses them, and why the AMU has thousands of them in storage and refuses to use them because they are an "unfair advantage against civiilians" in comps like Camp Perry. I guess a few of you ...Deleted by CalHunter... should know, that the last time I checked, the Secret Service Counter snipers have markmanship skills, and do practice.......NavSurfWarDEVGRU has an ammo budget larger than some countries GNP.....we know they practice. When it comes to killing, tissue damage is the measure. In the real world, lead bullets don't hold a candle to this new technology. So if you can't grow up and call a spade a spade, then get a clue. If you have not shot both technologies, compared them side by side, then you should not be talking smack about something you know absolutely nothing about. The 200 grain PT 30 caliber bores a 1/2 inch diameter hole in the shoulder of an Elk, liquifies the lungs, 1/2 of the heart, and the top 1/3 of the liver. Not to mention the animal drops to the ground like a puppet with the strings cut. NOT EVEN A STEP! Done this more than 5 times on bulls, 3 black bears, 1 grizzly, and countless deer. Sorry to wake the clueless from deep slumber, but it is what it is. When these lead bullet manufacturers claim their "Partition retained 82 percent of its weight" on a recovered bullet, where do you rocket scientists suppose the other 18 percent went?:D Isnt that special!!! Why should I have to get a clue when theres genisues out there like you that already know everything and will tell me without me even having to try it or ask about it? Damn I feel enlightened!! Nothing like making a bad hit or a direct heavy bone hit and leaving a festering wound that will kill the animal....3 days later! Hell yeah...now we dont even have to gut them quarter them or nothing and the buzzards will be forever grateful!! As far as knowing which method of killing of more effective I guess we will have to take your word for it since we are all clueless!! :D So good for the president of the company to come out and tell us his research trumps our hundreds of years of collective experience as a board. WOW!! Good luck and hopefully you can sell a box or 2...again I say they will work great for people that cant shoot straight especially after the gut shot theory. I can hear it now.."I knew the conditions werent right for the shot but they told me because of their endless research that all I had to do was hit it and it would DRT!!! Now where there hell did it go?" As far as growing up...good luck at that also... I might not know a spade from a club but I do knowa zealotwith an obvious agenda from a satisfied customer. I will keep your bullets in mind though if I ever become a sniper or get a job with the secret service.....or see a deer or elk masquerading as a terrorist!! Its magic!! Magic I tell ya!!! Wooohoooo!! |
RE: DRT Frangible Ammo
OK...they are just a gimmick, that is why the counter snipers that guard our President use them, and why DevGRU uses them, and why the AMU has thousands of them in storage and refuses to use them because they are an "unfair advantage against civiilians" in comps like Camp Perry. I guess a few of you ...Deleted by CalHunter... should know, that the last time I checked, the Secret Service Counter snipers have markmanship skills, and do practice.......NavSurfWarDEVGRU has an ammo budget larger than some countries GNP.....we know they practice. |
RE: DRT Frangible Ammo
ORIGINAL: Doe Dumper So good for the president of the company to come out and tell us his research trumps our hundreds of years of collective experience as a board. That being said, I too would like to hear a response to the questions posed about bone penetration. |
RE: DRT Frangible Ammo
ORIGINAL: S1 If we can get past all of the BS from the guys who have not used this technology, and truly know nothing about it, I think I can explain how the technology works, and perhaps some will see it has real utility in some applications. Lets get some facts on the table upfront..... 1. I do not advocate gut shooting an animal, it is not necessary. I will never advocate this. 2. There are two schools of thought concerning terminal ballistics in a hunting environment. The first is "Don't over penetrate, use all of energy of the projectile to cause tissue damage." The second school of thought is, "Make sure you have a large exit wound so the blood trail is easy to track." Although both methods will kill game, we know that the first method is more efficient and will kill quicker, all other criteria being equal. We know this from Fackler's research, and from live tissue tests and other data collected. I much prefer an animal to fall in his tracks, I know right where to find him, especially on dangerous game. No one wants to follow a blood trail into tall grass or dense brush looking for a wounded brown bear, no matter how good the 'blood trail' is........Deleted by CalHunter... Stop beating around the bear here (thats a pun.... get it). What is a hunter to do when he hits a shoulder bone? How have these bullets performed versus bone. Because I can tell you how my solid copper and copper/lead bullets have performed when they met bone, and it didn't involve the theory of "energy dumping". |
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