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Todd1700

I' m late to this discussion but put me down for a vote on the over gunned side, at least here in my neck of the woods. The deer here in Alabama rarely get bigger than 225 lbs despite the gross over estimations of some hunters. And a 225 pound buck is a monster in these parts. Most of Alabama is thickly wooded and shot opportunities out to 400 yards are rare. And lets be honest. Most hunters unless they have really consistently practised at that range shouldn' t attempt a 400 yard shot even under ideal circumstances. I have heard a lot of stories about 400+ yard kills at the local barbar shop and around the campfire but I strongly suspect most are exagerrations. Since I purchased a laser range finder 2 years ago I have discovered that most people grossly overestimate distance. A point I have demonstrated on numerous occasions much to the chagrin of a few self professed experts at distance estimation. Stepping off the distance, is also very inaccurate and varies greatly depending on whos doing the stepping. I' ve found the pacing it off method to be as much as 5 yards off by the time some people made it to what they thought was 40 yards. Imagine how badly they could be off by the time they got to what they thought was 400 yards.
I own a 243, a 30-06 and a 7mm mag. I can shoot the 2 larger calibers well enought to kill deer at most reasonable ranges but I can drive tacks with my 243. Why? Its lesser recoil makes it a pleasure to shoot and therefore I shoot it a lot. The lesser recoil also means that I don' t flinch at all when I pull the trigger. Something that many people do when firing the larger magnums whether they admit it or not. NOW! HOLD ON! Before anyones blood pressure goes so high that they rupture a hemaroid. I know that some of you are not bothered by recoil and can shoot a 300 mag just as well as I can shoot that little 243. God bless you. You have my compliments. The average hunter cannot and I therefore feel he or she is better off with a gun that has less recoil. (This is pertaining to deer in Alabama keep in mind. If we are hunting elk in Montana its a different story.)
I have heard a lot of horror stories about the big buck that got away after being shot with a small caliber rifle like the 243. Stories about bullets blowing up on the skin or ribs. Stories about bullets not penetrating the shoulder. I think most of these can be filed into two categories. (1.) lumping the 243 in with calibers like 22-250, 222, 223, 220 swift or 221 fireball. Most of these guns fire a 50 or 55 grain bullet that is totally inadequate for large game and could definetely account for some of the aforementioned horror stories. (2.) Using the wrong type 243 bullet. The 243 has a wide range of bullet types and grain weights. Some down in the 50 to 70 grian range are intented as varmit rounds but have unforetunatly been taken into the field to hunt deer as well. Stick with a 95 to 100 grain bonded bullet that is designed to enhance pentration and a 243 will shoot through any whitetail deer in the south and proabably any in the country. I am living testiment to that fact. I' ve never had one go more than 40 yards.
What advantage does a big magnum really offer for me or the average hunter here in Alabama. As I see it a big gun does two things. It will either drive a medium range bullet (150gr) at velocities that will give a flat trajectory over extreme ranges. (As I said before thats a rare need here and my 243 will shoot beyond my abilities and those of the average hunter already.) Or it can drive a very large bullet (220gr) at the velocities necessary to expand such a chunk of lead on large game. This is certainly not suited to whitetails as such a bullet would strip through without even fully expanding. So I see no benefit for myself.
In closing I will say that many of my friends shoot 300 mags and 7mm mags like I used to. Do their guns kill deer. Yep! Are they killing more deer or deer that I can' t because of these guns? Nope! Am I able to lift my arm at work Monday morning after a Sunday afternoon at the local gravel pit. Yep! Are they able to? Well lets ask them. If yes raise your right hand! Oops! Maybe we better change that to saying yea or nay.

ELKampMaster

South east USA - hot humid climate - keeps deer smallish. Small/(medium) job, small/medium rifle. Makes sense to me. Not the only solution, but makes sense..... for the majority of folks.

Of course, majority of folks choose to hunt close to home, whereas a few " adventurous" souls gaze at the far horizon and aspire to something a little more grand. Much to the consternation of the local folks that choose not to stray beyond the local deer patch, some of these " adventurous" souls are even brazen enough to practice BOTH at the local target range AND on the local game species with the bigger tools they plan to be using on their bigger game.

" Put those big things away!" " Such preparations don' t make sense" . " Why don' t you just wait until you' re on your multi-thousand dollar hunting trip up north or out west and figure it all out then" ? " Stop that nonsense, you' re making such a racket, and you might be damaging your shoulder" !

Don' t pay to be different, gets folks upset - of course that is how its always been.
I' ll take the path less travelled.

Never Go Undergunned,

EKM

JagMagMan

Are we over-gunned? Short answer: yes!
Does it matter? No!
IF, that is, that you can handle the extra blast and recoil of what you are shooting!
That being said, I do not advocate ANY .22 caliber for deer, or the 30-30 for longer range shots on deer. Neither of these are " beginners" calibers! The .22' s are terrible with any shot that is less than perfect! While the 30-30 in beginners hands is a poor choice because most beginners don' t know how to judge distances well and will stretch the capabilities of the 30-30!
Back to " over gunned" !
The .243/6MM with good 100 grain bullets will handle any whitetail on the planet!
Anything from the 7MM-08 to the 30-06 will take any whitetail AND MOST larger game as long as you don' t overdo the range!
When you get to game that bites back, even the 7MM Rem. mag is a little on the weak side! For that you need not only strong medicine, you' d better be a good shot with it too! ( I' ve known of bears that have taken full magazine loads of well placed 7MM Rem. mags and STILL charged!) There is no such thing as being over gunned, when the game bites!!!!!
It all boils down to this; shoot ANY deer in the heart/lungs, even with todays SUPER-DUPER-TRIPLE-X-MAGNUMS, you' ve still got plenty of venison for supper! Shoot something that gets MAD with a PEA-SHOOTER, well, you might just BE supper!
Finally, are we over motored? Most speed limits are 70 MPH, 75 MPH tops! Yet most of our autos will far exceed that! Maybe even double that!
So, IF you can ACCURATELY shoot the gun that is in your hands, at the GAME that you are AIMING at, it doesn' t matter that you are " OVER GUNNED!"
If you CAN' T, then you need to do one of two things: downgrade to a caliber that you can handle, or downgrade to a caliber that you can handle AND downgrade to a GAME that is suitable for that caliber!
Frank

whelen36

in my opinion , a person is over gunned if the gun they have is too powerful for them to handle ,

a person is over gunned if the gun they are using is too powerful for the size of the area they hunt ( for example , state parks , or private land that has any kind of developing near by that a stray bullet could reach , let' s face it , developments are taking over the hunting lands unfortunately )

and as for gun writers , the only one that i dislike is JON R. SUNDRA he almost always has negative things to say about the older calibers especially one of my favorites , the .30-30 winchester. now i' ve got too many guns to mention but , i' ve got standard calibers and i' ve got mega magnums too. but , what it really boils down to is responsibility to know your abilities , know your target , know your terrain , and to respect them all

gobuffs

Soooooo, where will this whole thing leave my new (soon) Marlin 1895 45-70???
Is big and slow as over gunned as big and hyper-velocity???

seattlesetters

gobuffs - Your 45-70 is classic. You are not overgunned, just like your ancestors weren' t when they used the same thing to take down all types of game around the turn of the 20th century. [:-]

By the way, nice choice. And, go Bulldogs!

ELKampMaster

GoBuffs,

Overgunned? Hmm, don' t know about that one, but.....
I bet no one will accuse you of being undergunned!
--------------------------
Loads of heritage -- 130 year old cartridge -- Niche Rifle, A Real Handful -- But Sweet, Great Bear Medicene!
Not currently at the top of my list but I' m keeping a spot open for one!

Never Go Undergunned!
EKM

woodseye

You can be undergunned but never overgunned.It all boils down to using the right construction bullet for the caliber and velocity you are shooting.The ones who want to dictate what size guns we are supposed to use are the ones that worry me.Course some of us might be using too much gun and killing our deer too dead [X(]I' ve got a 7mm-08,308,and a 300WSM all for deer hunting and I prefer the 7mm over the others,not because of what anyone says but because I LIKE IT! Thats the way it should be in hunting circles,not dissing some one else for not using what you like to use.

woods

MATTHEWS

All this talk about which caliber to use, I just want to say that to each his own. Just like archery you need to be and feel confident with your equipment, before entering the woods in search of your game. If you are confident in your equipment prior to entering the woods and can make the shot at the moment of truth, than good for you. But if you are not confident in what you are shooting you owe it to the game you are hunting to stay out of the woods. Ive seen many deer shot with calibers as low as the 220swift up to the 338. Both were very sufficient in the terrain they were hunting. Know your shot placement and distance and what you expect to accomplish on the shot and have confidence in your equipment, and you will be more succsessfull in the outdoors.