sighting in a 30-06
 

Hello, I bought one of those savage 111 packages, (that comes with the simmons scope), in 30-06 and tried to sight it in today. I started out at 25yards,and then went to100 yards, and was hitting all over the target. One shot would be 6 inches low, and then the other could be 4 inches to the left and 5 inches high.I tried doingadjustments but they didn't seem to work. I'm pretty sure I wasn't flinching. Any help on sighting in would be appreciated.I'm going tobe goingfor white-tails, mule deer, and moose thisfall.The bullets I were using were Federal: 30-06, 165 grain, trophybondedbear claws.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

Mark,

Couple of quick things to check...make sure all the screws are tightened on the scope base and rings (scopes can creep and make life miserable). Check to see if there is sufficient clearance between the front of the scope bell and the rifle barrel...there should be at the minimum the thickness of a dollar bill. Is the gun stock wood or synthetic? If it’s wood you could be having some contact between the barrel and the stock (could happen with the synthetic stock but I really wouldn't think so) and might need to be sanded down some and maybe freefloated and glass bedded. Just a couple of things to get you started…

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

I would DEFINATELY remove all the screws associated with mounting the scope and lock-tie them. From what you are saying IMO you have something loose there.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

It sounds exactly like you have a loose scope.It will drive you crazy if the rings are a little bit loose.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

I bought the exact same package a while ago. It shot well out of the box but it shot better after a couple of boxes. Make sure you burnish your barrel: fire a couple of shots, clean it and repeat the procedure for about 1 box. But maybe it is me getting use to the rifle. I noticed the rifle shot really dirty for the first box but now it is relatively clean.

The scope mount / rings are not great. On my package, I had rings with only 2 screws. One screw at the bottom to tighten the ring to the mount and 1 screw at the top to tighten the scope. Not very good. I ended up replacing the mount/rings and scope. I have now a 2 piece Leupold mount and standard rings (make sure you use the extended ring otherwise you will have too much eye relief on the 111).

One more point, the synthetic stock can easily bend if you use the hasty sling as a shooting aid. Make sure you do not pull too hard on the sling.

Hope this help.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

I have the same rifle with the Accutrigger and scope. My rifle will shoot 5 shot groups anywhere from 1.5 to 3" at 100 yards. This is using some old Federal 150 gr stuff that somebody gave to me years ago. Just to prove that the rifle is intrinsically accurate, I loaded up some Sierra Matchkings and got the groups to an inch. Savage rifles are accurate, even with the cheap Simmons scope on it. Make sure everything is tight after each shot if you have to. If you really want tight groups you must allow time between shots for the barrel to cool. Sporter weight barrels heat up quick.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

Sounds like your scope is dancing. Get some semi-permanent loc-tite or even clear nail polish and put it on the base and ring screws. Get close at 25 again and then head to 100 and see what happens.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

It may be loose mounts,but it could certainly be the scope as well since those scopes are of fairly low quality,and you may have gotten a defective one..

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

I had the same problem with my sons 30-30 when we put a scope on it. After about 3 shots the thing started hitting all over the place. After about a box of shells I finally checked the screws and sure enough one side was loose. After retightening things the proper way, the gun shoots great and we where able to get it grouped in reasonably well.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

One cannot zero in a rifle unless it is shooting groups reasonably small. For whatever reason, yours was not! Thus, making ANY sight adjustments under such circumstances is just a drill in futility. Boy, did you poop off some expensive ammo, or what??

I recommend that, before you do anything at all to the gun, let a proven marksman (or woman!!) shoot it for you off the bench, just to make sure the poor performance was due to the gun, and not due to you!

You are "pretty sure" you were not flinching. If you were flinching, you'd KNOW IT! If in doubt, have a buddy help you, and do the old GI "ball and dummy" exercise with you. That'll sure reveal a flinch right off!

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

You have a good, accurate rifle with loose screws.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

there was a similar post like this called wandering zero for 30.06 or something like that. i had commented on it that i have an older savage06 and the same thing had happened to me, i think the barrels heat up quick within 2 shots and throw it off.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

First off, stop shooting that TBBC ammo to sight you gun in. Your wasting about $35 a box. Go get some blue box federal or green box Remington. Check your scope bases and rings to make sure all is tight, then check theaction screws for tightness. Once you have all that done, then you can try sighting the scope in. If still getting the same results then have a known good shot put several rounds through it. If still bad buy a quality scope.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

Ok, this will repeat good advice already posted, and add some basic stuff which I apologize if you already know it.

Check all mounting screws and torque and lock-tite per specs. If this is unfamiliar to you, or if you feel uncomfortable with it, take it to a reputable gun shop or gun smith. IF (big if) they charge you for it, it will be negligable. Chances are, if you buy a couple boxes of shells or other gear, they'll just do it. Regardless, you need to make absolutely sure the scope is mounted properly so you can not only zero it, but also to make sure that it's not defective.

Buy some decent, readily available factory ammo. Winchester, Remington, Federal, etc. Something that you could virtually buy anywhere, any time. Don't go premium at this point. Later, you can fine tune the ammo you use, but for now, you can get groups good enough to zero the gun with anything.

Set yourself up at the range with a good sighting system. Buy or make some sandbags at the very minimum. Buy a sighting stand if you can afford it. It is critical that gun movement is eliminated as a factor.

If you suspect flinching at all - put a temporary pad on the butt of the gun. I use a slip on crude pad I made from foam pipe insulation. As an alternative, wear your warm hunting jacket(s). Do some dry firing to get used to squeezing the trigger w/o flinching. You need to make absolutely sure that you're not flinching.

Then go through the process of getting groups at 25 yds, 50 yds, etc. The groups will naturally spread out with distance.

If all of this falls into place and you're getting consistent groups at (whatever range you choose), then zero the gun with that ammo.

Then, you can experiment with various brands and types of ammo depending on your source of game and figure out which one is most accurate (smallest groups) with your gun. Don't worry about where on the target it hits, just look for group size. When you find the consistently smallest group size, then zero for that particular ammo. My personal philosophy (not a re-loader) is to try to figure out which COMMONLY AVAILABLE ammo is best, or acceptably accurate, in my gun. That way I can just buy a box of it wherever I am.

Good luck.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

If all else fails. Remove the screws holding the simmons scope in place. Grasp the scope by the bell end. Slowly raise the scope over your head and behind your back. Now in one fluid motion throw that POS as far as you can onto a concrete driveway. Now retrieve said POS scope and throw the pieces in the trash. Head to your local retailer and check out Nikon, Leupold, Bushnell.... Buy a decent piece of glass. Nikon gives the most bang for the buck on the low end prices.

That simons scope is a weak point. At some point its going south. Most times its when athirty pointer is in the cross hairs. I wouldn't put a simmons scope on my no good brother in law from Illinios' rifle.[8D]

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

Well said, Shato............

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

Yer poor brother in law :D

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

The last Simmons I shot din't hold up well at all....

Thecenter mass hit via TSX kinda broke it a little........................

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

I agree with BEARFAN.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

I am not sure what type of bench rest your using but I just read something the other day about having the actual baerrel in contact with what you are using for a rest. It said that if your barrel is resting on whatever your using for a rest instead of just the forend that it will throw flyers all over the place. Something about it messing up the harmonic vibrations or something to that effect. By what this stated make sure that the barrel is not resting directly on whatever your shooting it off of. Like most have already stated though usually it is something that is loose.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

While I agree about the package scope being a weak link I assume this config was bought due to budgetary reasons, so unlikely you'll trash it at this point based on our suggestion to do so.:eek:

So the first thing I would do is check the mounts - bases and rings screws. If that checks out ok, I would agree with the suggest to empoly some help of a buddy, etc. I think we've all had those days and doubting our equipment certainly doesn't help when saddling up behind it. Some sandbags for a rest to help steady things- a must IMO. Don't keep shooting, 1 group of 3 shots then break - no rush. Don't make any adjustments until you can verify its grouping with some normality. Chasing a bullis a sure way to a big headache.

By your description I suspect either scope/mount or shooter error. Try addressing these areas first. If you can get a spare verified scope to tryat the rangein the event nothing is solved with mounts, rest or shooting tech.

Good Luck

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

I was at the local pawn shop today. They had a used bushnell elite 3200 for sale for $100 with nothing wrong with it but ring marks. I offered 50 and the clerk countered 75, and I walked out grinning from ear to ear. that was until my buddy caught up with me at lunch and gave me a sob story about needing a good cheap scope. Well at any rate he got a good scope for $75. My point is a decent reliable scope can be had for reasonable amounts of $$$. No need in keeping that simmons any longer than absolutely necessary. If you hunt with that scope make darn sure you don't bump it on anything, or your zero will most likely be off.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

There you go using logic again!

Ever hear the joke about logic?

Joe was walking his dog one day and runs into a guy on the corner with a sign that says: "I can tell you five things about your life using logic"

Joe ask the guy what he means. street preformer tells him for a dollar he'll show him. so joe pays a buck.

Performer says: "I see you have a dog"

Joe: thats obvious

Peformer: I say you are Hetrosexual, married, have kids, have a managerial job, and you drive a pickup.

Joe: "holy cow, you could tell that just from my dog!"

performer: Logic tells me that men with dogs usually have children. Logic tells me that men with children usually are hetrosexual. logic tells me that hetrosexual men with children generally are married. Logic further dictates that hetrosexual married men with children that arewalking a dog in the middle of the day are either unemployed or have a managerial job. and I guessed on the truck.

Joe was thoroughly impressed. A few block later he runs into a friend bob. He tells bob he has a new trick and wants to demonstrate it. Joe asks: "Bob you got a dog?"
bob: NO
Joe: ******!

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

Thats pretty good but don't quit your day jiob.;)

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

This is very true, holding the barrel or resting it on something dampens the barrel. Obviously, a tiny change in the way the barrel vibrates can have inches (or more) effect downrange. Another way to think of it is that the gun's points of contact when sighting in should be the same as when you're shooting in the field.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

Your scope must be loose or you ARE flitching. You should know it if your flitching though or you might be movingwhen you goto pull the trigger if your(not to say afriad) but i guess bracing for the recoil you might be moving when you pull in thetrigger and that could be causing it to be very unaccurate.But make sure you check yoru scope. It sounds like its loose

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

What is a "ball and dummy" exercise?!

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

I think that's the one where you have your buddy load your rifle and he puts a dummy round (no powder or no primer or just hand feeds an empty case). If you flinch and the gun dosen't go off, you might be the problem not the scope.

RE: sighting in a 30-06
 

I would not make this statement lightly, I can surely understand hesitation on this suggestion, IT IS MOST LIKELY A BAD SCOPE! I am not being crass. I stopped selling Simmons many years ago, I did not want my name associated with. I have had much experience with the Savage/Simmons Package, a local business sold many in our area, and MOST scopes would not hold true. Add in that you are shooting a 3006 I say waste no more ammunition. Sorry to say also that the mounts I saw with that package would be on my list of upgrades. More bad news, in my experience Tropy Bonded will not shoot well in all guns.

Good news, the Savage Rifle is a super value and as a rule very accurate. I suggest you buy leupold bases and rings, and buy something like a Nikon Buckmaster for $200. If you really can't afford a $200 scope try BSA or the lower line of Leupold or Nikon. There are hundreds of combinations you can buy, I just mention products I have had good success with on a budget.

Good luck!