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.40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
I have a Highpoint .40 carbine.Is a .40 caliber an ok round to whack a WILD HOG.The rifle is very reliable and acurate with 10 rounds to back me up,or should i stik with my .308 semi REM.I bought the carbine so i can carry my Glock 23C as a sidearm and carry the same ammo.
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RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
Man, take a hunting round to go hunting. I was hog hunting and saw a guy hit a hog a few times with a 40S&W. Didn't do much to it. The bullets used are not made for it.
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RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
Thnx Brother for info.Best to stik to the big guns,whould"nt want a ricochette.Have"nt met my insurance premium yet this year!
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RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
I would use a .357 or .44 Magnum if I were considering pistol hunting hogs.
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RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
ORIGINAL: Snakebite101 I have a Highpoint .40 carbine.Is a .40 caliber an ok round to whack a WILD HOG.The rifle is very reliable and acurate with 10 rounds to back me up,or should i stik with my .308 semi REM.I bought the carbine so i can carry my Glock 23C as a sidearm and carry the same ammo. |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
In 1960 i hunted with a guy in eastern TN who decided that he wanted to hunt with a .44 magnum pistol. He wounded a huge boar that came after him and tore upone upper and both lower legs very badly. We had to put tourniquets (sp) onhis legsto get him to the hospital where it took 217 stitches to sew him up. Luckily there were six of us to carry him out of the woods.
Usually zap three of four hogs, mostly boars, a month. Most of mine have been killed with a .50 muzzleloader and 240 grain XTP or 250 grain SST bullets. Have shot the suckers at ranges of 25 to 200 yards.For some reason that big bullet from a muzzleloader does a goodjob on hogs. There is something about a hog that i have never seen discussed on a board. They can be lying on the ground, apparently dying after a shot. Let them catch a glimpse of you or hear a human voice and they can be up and gone in a flash. If you are closea wounded hog can be up and after you in a flash. The heart of a hog is much lower in the chest than that of a deer. Aim accordingly. http://www.texasboars.com/anatomy.html |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
i have seen a guy take a pig with a .177 pellet gun, you can do anythign with any gun with a good shot.
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RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
That's a great link, Falcon.
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RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
ORIGINAL: Adirondack Hunter i have seen a guy take a pig with a .177 pellet gun, you can do anythign with any gun with a good shot. |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
I have a Ruger PC-4 carbine and it takes boar all the time, big (250#) and small (75#). I have taken them at 20 to 80 yards. I also hunt with a group of cops that routinely take coastal deer and hogs at <30 yards with a .40 pistol. Just because some people say they "wouldn't" hunt with less that a magnum round or a rifle round does not mean it won't get the job done. The key is accurate shot placement. If you can shoot a 2" group at 80 yards, you will have no problem. From the side, I usually aim low on the shoulder, a couple of inches above where the front leg meets the chest and have ended up hitting the dip in the spinal column, the heart or the lungs. All were fatal with a single shot. I had one shot from behind and above at 40 yards. He was running and I aimed between the shoulder blades. It broke his back and dropped him on the spot, but did not kill. I advanced and took a 2nd shot at 10 yards that killed him.
In my book, one properly placed round is superior to 3 or 4 poorly placed rounds of any caliber. True enough, the .40 S&W was designed to drop a mere human and hogs do have a shield or armor of cartlidge and scar tissue that people don't have, but I have seen .40 rounds out of a pistol go clean through the steel trunk of a police car. Like the .45 ACP, the .40 S&W does not achieve it's maximum potential in a pistol barrel. An 11-16" barrel gives you maximum velocity, maximum energy and the most accuracy from these rounds. So, go kill a hog with your .40 carbine and post a picture here for all of the non-believers. |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
ORIGINAL: MM4L I have a Ruger PC-4 carbine and it takes boar all the time, big (250#) and small (75#). I have taken them at 20 to 80 yards. I also hunt with a group of cops that routinely take coastal deer and hogs at <30 yards with a .40 pistol. Just because some people say they "wouldn't" hunt with less that a magnum round or a rifle round does not mean it won't get the job done. The key is accurate shot placement. If you can shoot a 2" group at 80 yards, you will have no problem. From the side, I usually aim low on the shoulder, a couple of inches above where the front leg meets the chest and have ended up hitting the dip in the spinal column, the heart or the lungs. All were fatal with a single shot. I had one shot from behind and above at 40 yards. He was running and I aimed between the shoulder blades. It broke his back and dropped him on the spot, but did not kill. I advanced and took a 2nd shot at 10 yards that killed him. In my book, one properly placed round is superior to 3 or 4 poorly placed rounds of any caliber. True enough, the .40 S&W was designed to drop a mere human and hogs do have a shield or armor of cartlidge and scar tissue that people don't have, but I have seen .40 rounds out of a pistol go clean through the steel trunk of a police car. Like the .45 ACP, the .40 S&W does not achieve it's maximum potential in a pistol barrel. An 11-16" barrel gives you maximum velocity, maximum energy and the most accuracy from these rounds. So, go kill a hog with your .40 carbine and post a picture here for all of the non-believers. Hogs can be both difficult and dangerous, it's irresponsable to suggest his 40 is a better choice. |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
No, I am not joking. I have seen plenty of .308's go through and through a hog and require extensive tracking, sometimes to no avail. Whereas a hollowpoint .40 S&W not only delivers the full kinetic energy, it is less likely to over penetrate the target. Which delivers more "punch" a 30 caliber round that goes through and through or a 40 caliber round that opens up to 60+ caliber and stops inside the target?
I own .270's, .308's and 30-06 rifles and I have had the most fun and the greatest success with a .40 S&W carbine. This is partly because all of my rifle caliber guns are scoped and my carbine has ghost ring sights. I am able to get on target more quickly with iron sights and I am shooting at closer distances. I have NEVER had to track a hog shot with a .40 and as I said, it is more important which gun you are most accurate with, not the caliber. If I were hunting in terrain where I was taking 100-300 yard shots, yes, I would use the .308 or 30-06. But, in dense terrain where you will take shots at under 80 yards, I think the .40 is an outstanding choice. Just because you wouldn't try it does not mean it is wrong. The .40 is a hell of a round and is quick to be underestimated by hunters because it was not designed for game, it was designed for humans. |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
ORIGINAL: MM4L Which delivers more "punch" a 30 caliber round that goes through and through or a 40 caliber round that opens up to 60+ caliber and stops inside the target? |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
Again, you missed my point. A 30 cal. ball round that overpenetrates is not delivering it's full punch.. the energy is going THROUGH the target and out to whatever it hits beyond the target. The wound channel on a .40 S&W hollowpoint is devastating and while the .40 S&W has less muzzle velocity and less mass, it is the wound channel and delivering ALL of the potential energy (that energy that is LOST when a round exits) that is key here.
I know many people cannot wrap their minds around the physics of real-world wound ballistics, particularly hunters that tend to think "bigger is always better." The fact is, if you have never seen the results of a .40 S&W on a flesh target, you don't really know what it will do. It is easy to jump to conclusions and fall back on "common knowledge" but basic physics will trump you every time. The fact is, the .308 is a great round. One I would not hesitate to use at long distances. But, a .40 is truly designed to kill and is more than adequate for hogs at under 80 yards. Granted, most of my kills have been within 20 or 30 yards, but that is because of the terrain I am hunting in. At that range, a .308 tends to overpenetrate and (in my experience) maims large game unless the shot is accurately places in a vital area, partially because it is not delivering it's full potential punch and partially because the wound channel does not have time to develop due to bullet speed. The much larger wound channel created by the slower .40 hollowpoint makes more "close" shots lethal and reduces tracking or maiming. If you can't understand that, you can continue killing mosquitoes with a nail gun and write me off as the crackpot. |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
ORIGINAL: MM4L I know many people cannot wrap their minds around the physics of real-world wound ballistics, particularly hunters that tend to think "bigger is always better." The fact is, if you have never seen the results of a .40 S&W on a flesh target, you don't really know what it will do. It is easy to jump to conclusions and fall back on "common knowledge" but basic physics will trump you every time. I can wrap my mind around the physics and you're wrong. A 308 bullet passing through a hog STILL expends more engery in the target than a 40 that expends all of its energy inside the animal. Why... because the 308 starts with massive engery advantage overa 40. I have shot and killed numerous smaller pests withmy 40 and I still wouldn't dream of using a 40 on hogsif I had also had 308 in the safe. I'm not a "bigger is better" type of hunter but I absolutely do believe that every hunter should always use enough gun to get the job done. What is enough gun... well each person needs to decide that for themself and IMO a 40 for hog hunting is not enough gun. |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
When did we suddenly start talking about "ball rounds"? First, nobody hunts with FMJ .308's. Second, it seems rather crazy to think that a round with only 500 ft lbs of energy is somehow dumping more energy into an animal than a round with nearly 3000 ft lbs of energy, even though the more potent round goes "through and through."
There's quite a bit of literature on wound ballistics, and I thought that the theory that a bullet that dumps all of its energy into the target (by failing to fully penetrate) is somehow superior had been written off as myth. Read pages 5-7 of this: http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf As far as your contention that ...at 20-30 yards... "a .308 tends to overpenetrate and (in my experience) maims large game unless the shot is accurately places in a vital area," I guess I'll have to cede to your experience. At 20-30 yards, I've never had any problem "accurately placing a shot in a vital area." |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
I respect your opinion.
That said, the 47th edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook lists "optimum game weight" (OGW) for a standard 180 gr. solid base ballistic tip partition-type .308 round at 200 yards is 546 pounds. They don't list an OGW for the .308 at under 200 yards. I have calculated the OGW of a 180 gr. JHP .40 S&W round at 50 yards (fired from a 16" bbl carbine) to be 276 pounds. At 20 yards it is 303 pounds. The foot pound energy of a similar .40 is easily double that of a hunting arrow fired from an average hunting-grade bow (or crossbow). So, any argument you have against hunting with a .40 would go double for archers. The last 3 hogs I took were under 150 pounds (as small as 75#) and all were single shot kills. I have taken 200# hogs with the .40 at 65 yards with one shot. I have never had a .40 overpenetrate and I have never seen a .308 or 30-06 that did not overpenetrate a hog. In fact, I have fired the kill shot on a maimed hog that was shot with a 30-06. The 30-06 went through and through while the .40 stopped the hog in it's tracks and the round remained in the carcass. There is no way to accurately measure the energy LOST as a result of overpenetration from one shot to the next. I think you would agree that the .308 is still "lethal" to background targets and similarly, the .40 is less likely to overpenetrate. This means the .40 is more likely to deliver all of it's energy and admittedly, while it is significantly less, it could be much more energy on target if the .308 is moving so fast that it does not create as severe a wound channel and carries that extra (excess?) energy through the target and out the other side. There is more to wound ballistics than muzzle velocity and foot pounds of energy. By your logic, we should be hunting hogs with .223's! We'll just have to agree to disagree. |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
ORIGINAL: MM4L I respect your opinion. That said, the 47th edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook lists "optimum game weight" (OGW) for a standard 180 gr. solid base ballistic tip partition-type .308 round at 200 yards is 546 pounds. They don't list an OGW for the .308 at under 200 yards. I have calculated the OGW of a 180 gr. JHP .40 S&W round at 50 yards (fired from a 16" bbl carbine) to be 276 pounds. At 20 yards it is 303 pounds. The foot pound energy of a similar .40 is easily double that of a hunting arrow fired from an average hunting-grade bow (or crossbow). So, any argument you have against hunting with a .40 would go double for archers. The last 3 hogs I took were under 150 pounds (as small as 75#) and all were single shot kills. I have taken 200# hogs with the .40 at 65 yards with one shot. I have never had a .40 overpenetrate and I have never seen a .308 or 30-06 that did not overpenetrate a hog. In fact, I have fired the kill shot on a maimed hog that was shot with a 30-06. The 30-06 went through and through while the .40 stopped the hog in it's tracks and the round remained in the carcass. There is no way to accurately measure the energy LOST as a result of overpenetration from one shot to the next. I think you would agree that the .308 is still "lethal" to background targets and similarly, the .40 is less likely to overpenetrate. This means the .40 is more likely to deliver all of it's energy and admittedly, while it is significantly less, it could be much more energy on target if the .308 is moving so fast that it does not create as severe a wound channel and carries that extra (excess?) energy through the target and out the other side. There is more to wound ballistics than muzzle velocity and foot pounds of energy. By your logic, we should be hunting hogs with .223's! We'll just have to agree to disagree. |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
I'm curious, do you have any resources proving this theory about "overpenetration"?
I disagree with your premise that the .40 is better because it "expends all its energy in the game" and that the .308 is worse because it "overpenetrates". Game is killed by the destruction of tissue caused by the bullet. Energy transfer is a secondary, and very minor consideration. The game is not killed by energy transfer, hence your statement earlier about archers. As we have eliminated the ".308 ball" from consideration, I believe that a .308 hunting round (i.e. some sort of expanding round designed for moderate sized game, like the Remington PSP Core Lokt) will cause greater damage inside deer/hog sized game than a .40 S&W. http://www.chuckhawks.com/energy_transfer.htm http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/b.../wounding.html http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/b...ics/myths.html |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
...............Uhhhhh........Your analogy to archery is totally off base. It's common knowledge that arrows kill by hemmorhage(sp), not by energy shock. You're comparing apples and oranges.
Also, I'll take a gun that gives pass-thru's every time. Can't argue the fact that it had enough energy to make it completely through the animal vs. not enough energy to do that. Common sense + Physics........... |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
ORIGINAL: Pawildman ...............Uhhhhh........Your analogy to archery is totally off base. It's common knowledge that arrows kill by hemmorhage(sp), not by energy shock. You're comparing apples and oranges. Also, I'll take a gun that gives pass-thru's every time. Can't argue the fact that it had enough energy to make it completely through the animal vs. not enough energy to do that. Common sense + Physics........... |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
ORIGINAL: ipscshooter ORIGINAL: Pawildman ...............Uhhhhh........Your analogy to archery is totally off base. It's common knowledge that arrows kill by hemmorhage(sp), not by energy shock. You're comparing apples and oranges. Also, I'll take a gun that gives pass-thru's every time. Can't argue the fact that it had enough energy to make it completely through the animal vs. not enough energy to do that. Common sense + Physics........... |
RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
Yes I would never use a .40 for hog hunting. We shot one that was wounded and crawling away with a .40 and it took 3 shots to stop it from 10 yards away. I've shot big boars with a .35 Remington and had the shield stop the bullet from exiting at 65 yards. Big boars are tough animals and I would rather have too large a gun than not enough. I've crawled through the brush too many times after a wounded one when someone thought their small gun was big enough to use on hogs. A wounded hog in heavy brush is no fun to deal with. I'd rather use a heavy gun and drop them and not have to worry about following a wounded one. sure you can kill one with almost anything if you get a perfect shot though we hunt them at night and you have about 3 seconds to shoot when the light comes on so you don't always have a perfect shot.
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RE: .40 caliber carbine for HOG HUNTING.
You crack me up!:D It's good to read posts like yours when I need a laugh. To begin with, you mention "ball" ammo from the .308 and everybody KNOWS it's unethical AND illegal (in most areas) to hunt with FMJ ammo. You need to learn what to load your rifles with. Secondly, you claim to know more about ballistics than the rest of us that simply "can't wrap our heads around" ballistics. Thirdly, you show your true knowledge by saying the .308 is going so fast it don't create as severe wound channel instead of acknowledging bullet design plays a HUGE factor in terminal wound channel size and depth. Not only the bullet expanding creates the wound channel, but also energy transfer (of which you keep harping). Energy transfer of an .308 with a 150 gr rapidly expanding bullet (Nosler Ballistic Tip for example), WILL shed MUCH more energy in a animal than the .40 S&W even produces at the muzzle, and sometimes fails to exit. When you compare the wound channels of the .308 so loaded, and the .40S&W you will HAVE to admit the .308 produces the largest wound channel. Muzzle energy also creates HUGE temporary wound channels as they expend their energy and expand. The .40 S&W is totally incapable of this due to the low energy level. Add up the diameter AND length of the terminal wound channel of both and you will see the .308 WITH EXPANDING BULLET produces a much larger wound channel than the .40 S&W. Just because you can play with fire a few times don't mean you'll be able to get by with it forever, and the same goes for stunts such as shooting hogs with barely adaquate rounds. Also you're not taking into consideration the hogs' temperment. And finally, don't you feel just a bit guilty advising a mere mortal to hunt with the popgun you're so fond of with your obviously superior skills?
ORIGINAL: MM4L I respect your opinion. That said, the 47th edition of the Lyman Reloading Handbook lists "optimum game weight" (OGW) for a standard 180 gr. solid base ballistic tip partition-type .308 round at 200 yards is 546 pounds. They don't list an OGW for the .308 at under 200 yards. I have calculated the OGW of a 180 gr. JHP .40 S&W round at 50 yards (fired from a 16" bbl carbine) to be 276 pounds. At 20 yards it is 303 pounds. The foot pound energy of a similar .40 is easily double that of a hunting arrow fired from an average hunting-grade bow (or crossbow). So, any argument you have against hunting with a .40 would go double for archers. The last 3 hogs I took were under 150 pounds (as small as 75#) and all were single shot kills. I have taken 200# hogs with the .40 at 65 yards with one shot. I have never had a .40 overpenetrate and I have never seen a .308 or 30-06 that did not overpenetrate a hog. In fact, I have fired the kill shot on a maimed hog that was shot with a 30-06. The 30-06 went through and through while the .40 stopped the hog in it's tracks and the round remained in the carcass. There is no way to accurately measure the energy LOST as a result of overpenetration from one shot to the next. I think you would agree that the .308 is still "lethal" to background targets and similarly, the .40 is less likely to overpenetrate. This means the .40 is more likely to deliver all of it's energy and admittedly, while it is significantly less, it could be much more energy on target if the .308 is moving so fast that it does not create as severe a wound channel and carries that extra (excess?) energy through the target and out the other side. There is more to wound ballistics than muzzle velocity and foot pounds of energy. By your logic, we should be hunting hogs with .223's! We'll just have to agree to disagree. |
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