Shoot Don't Shoot scenario "The Quickie Mart"
08-18-2007, 05:32 AM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: Shoot Don't Shoot scenario "The Quickie Mart"
ORIGINAL: Chris_H
Great job Fred! When Fred made eye contact with me, the robber would most likely instinctively turn his head to see what Fred was eyeballing. By the time I'd taken aim, I would have shot his knee caps... or the general area. He is an immediate threat to me... I'm not sure if shooting him without reasoning first is against the law, but I'm not about to try to reason with him; its my life I'm dealing with here. I could get shot in the process. A shot below the waste is not attempted murder, so thats what I would do. I'm cant tell you what I'd do next... it depends. Will he drop to the floor and release the weapon? Will he drop to the floor and NOT drop the weapon and aim at me?
A tough scenario, I'll give ya that Matt!
Great job Fred! When Fred made eye contact with me, the robber would most likely instinctively turn his head to see what Fred was eyeballing. By the time I'd taken aim, I would have shot his knee caps... or the general area. He is an immediate threat to me... I'm not sure if shooting him without reasoning first is against the law, but I'm not about to try to reason with him; its my life I'm dealing with here. I could get shot in the process. A shot below the waste is not attempted murder, so thats what I would do. I'm cant tell you what I'd do next... it depends. Will he drop to the floor and release the weapon? Will he drop to the floor and NOT drop the weapon and aim at me?
A tough scenario, I'll give ya that Matt!
Always shoot center mass... you are stopping a threat to your life with gunfire... plain and simple.
08-18-2007, 05:41 AM
#32
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: Shoot Don't Shoot scenario "The Quickie Mart"
I would have shot him outright.... soon as he goes down, or his weapoin is dropped... I'm getting Fred and myself out of the store and calling 911 from the payphone outfront, or the cell phone. I'm staying put unti authorities arrive, and willingly surrender and cooperate.
Soon as that weapon is dropped, or the robber is incapacitated... threat is removed. If he dies... he does... if not... good for him... I'm alive, so is Fred... mission accomplished.
Soon as that weapon is dropped, or the robber is incapacitated... threat is removed. If he dies... he does... if not... good for him... I'm alive, so is Fred... mission accomplished.
08-18-2007, 08:32 PM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 1,184
RE: Shoot Don't Shoot scenario "The Quickie Mart"
ORIGINAL: kdvollmer
Sure, nobody wants to shoot a 15 year old kid. But it still comes down to whether or not you are willing to gamble with Freds life, or yourown. Read the scenario, you have your gun drawn and Fred makes eye contact with you. What do you think that armed criminal is going to do, not bother to look and see.
As far as the gun turning out to be a fake. Until he s down, and somebody canpick it up and see, that guy is still commiting a felony act of Armed Robbery. And as far as what the money is for....cold as it may sound, that is irrelevant. Even if there is a sick little brother, thereare childrens hospitals to help kids like that. Look into the Shriners. IT IS STILL ARMED ROBBERY. IT IS STILL ILLEGAL. If somebody has a gun and are robbing this store that I am in, it is not my responsibility to be like " hey kid, what'cha need that money for" and to reason with him. He has made a concious choice to ROB at GUNPOINT this store. At that age, everybody knows that is wrong and illegal.
See back when I lived in California, and applied for a CCW, and because it was California, it was denied, I continued to try to get it. I was talking with several guys I knew on the Sheriffs Department about carrying...etc. I made a comment that I wasn't looking to carry 100% of the time and to be some gun toting danger to society, lookng to be the vigilante. They told me that if I were to give it to me, that they would hope that I would carry all the time. No sense in giving a permit not to use it. (read this didn't say they wanted me to be the crazy guy vigilante, but somebody that would carry in just this situation.)
ORIGINAL: robbcayman
I know what you are saying, but what if it was a 15 year old and the gun turned out to be a fake. Or worse yet, he was stealing the money to get his sick little brother a treatment his family couldn't afford. I think most (myself included) assume this is a dangerous killer, but what if it is not? Would this change your attitude on killing him??? After thinking about the situation I may try to get him to drop the gun, if he didn't then he is dead.
ORIGINAL: kdvollmer
This is going to sound cold as hell to some, but 15 doesn't change anything. A real gun, is a real gun, and it doesn't matter who pulls the trigger,an adult, or a 15 year old kid.the result is still the same. That might make living with it harder, but I am not willing to get shot just beacuse they look 15. I said it before, if they are robbing a store, and using a gun to do it, commiting this illegal violent crime, then why would you believe that they won't use that gun. Age has nothing to do with it.
Lets look at a little history:
Colombine....need I say more
Seems that those kids shot execution style here recently in the news, one of their shooters was a teen age kid. Just food for thought.
I used to be an Army recruiter outside of oakland, a guy I was working with was shot shortly after i left recruiting duty and wasn't able to join. The shooter, some little punk gangbanger.
TO eldequello: you're right in saying,none of us knowhowwe will react in this situation. But regardless of age, itis stillthe innocent vs the criminal, which is why I BELIEVE I could still shoot. Lord, I hope that I never have to find out.
TO robbcaman: i agree, it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
This is going to sound cold as hell to some, but 15 doesn't change anything. A real gun, is a real gun, and it doesn't matter who pulls the trigger,an adult, or a 15 year old kid.the result is still the same. That might make living with it harder, but I am not willing to get shot just beacuse they look 15. I said it before, if they are robbing a store, and using a gun to do it, commiting this illegal violent crime, then why would you believe that they won't use that gun. Age has nothing to do with it.
Lets look at a little history:
Colombine....need I say more
Seems that those kids shot execution style here recently in the news, one of their shooters was a teen age kid. Just food for thought.
I used to be an Army recruiter outside of oakland, a guy I was working with was shot shortly after i left recruiting duty and wasn't able to join. The shooter, some little punk gangbanger.
TO eldequello: you're right in saying,none of us knowhowwe will react in this situation. But regardless of age, itis stillthe innocent vs the criminal, which is why I BELIEVE I could still shoot. Lord, I hope that I never have to find out.
TO robbcaman: i agree, it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Sure, nobody wants to shoot a 15 year old kid. But it still comes down to whether or not you are willing to gamble with Freds life, or yourown. Read the scenario, you have your gun drawn and Fred makes eye contact with you. What do you think that armed criminal is going to do, not bother to look and see.
As far as the gun turning out to be a fake. Until he s down, and somebody canpick it up and see, that guy is still commiting a felony act of Armed Robbery. And as far as what the money is for....cold as it may sound, that is irrelevant. Even if there is a sick little brother, thereare childrens hospitals to help kids like that. Look into the Shriners. IT IS STILL ARMED ROBBERY. IT IS STILL ILLEGAL. If somebody has a gun and are robbing this store that I am in, it is not my responsibility to be like " hey kid, what'cha need that money for" and to reason with him. He has made a concious choice to ROB at GUNPOINT this store. At that age, everybody knows that is wrong and illegal.
See back when I lived in California, and applied for a CCW, and because it was California, it was denied, I continued to try to get it. I was talking with several guys I knew on the Sheriffs Department about carrying...etc. I made a comment that I wasn't looking to carry 100% of the time and to be some gun toting danger to society, lookng to be the vigilante. They told me that if I were to give it to me, that they would hope that I would carry all the time. No sense in giving a permit not to use it. (read this didn't say they wanted me to be the crazy guy vigilante, but somebody that would carry in just this situation.)
08-18-2007, 10:19 PM
#35
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3,145
RE: Shoot Don't Shoot scenario "The Quickie Mart"
If you go to court and you dropped the guy, the lawyer will ask "Why didn't you try to shoot him in the leg or try to wound him instead of killing him?"
Whatever happens, a lawyer will cast it in the worst light possible for you.
It's best to do what you have to do to protect yourself or another from serious harm. Remember, if you go to court, you win, because you survived.
Whatever happens, a lawyer will cast it in the worst light possible for you.
It's best to do what you have to do to protect yourself or another from serious harm. Remember, if you go to court, you win, because you survived.
08-19-2007, 05:56 AM
#36
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
RE: Shoot Don't Shoot scenario "The Quickie Mart"
ORIGINAL: woofer
No one can say for sure what they'll do!!!! Until you are put in that situation...
No one can say for sure what they'll do!!!! Until you are put in that situation...
08-20-2007, 05:07 AM
#37
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,647
RE: Shoot Don't Shoot scenario "The Quickie Mart"
I prob would of gotton nerves... Fumbled my gun... Scared the Ahole... Ducked back behind the isle... Fred prob would of got iced and the Ahole would of prob gotten away... After it was all over with... I would of second guessed everything that I did... Then I prob would of went to one of those gun trainning course to learn how to act when your in the S!@#
08-22-2007, 01:53 AM
#40
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,572
RE: Shoot Don't Shoot scenario "The Quickie Mart"
When confronted with deadly force you have the right to defend yourself prettymuch in any state that allows CCW im sure. Also, many states have Good Samaritan laws that protect you from being prosecuted if you act to stop a violent felony in progress.
So yeah if he notices me, I command him to drop the weapon and if he so much as turns slightywith it still in his hand it's3 shots center mass.
So yeah if he notices me, I command him to drop the weapon and if he so much as turns slightywith it still in his hand it's3 shots center mass.
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