the so called cowboy rifles vs muzzle loaders
 

In Indiana this year they have passed a law that the cowboy rifles will be in Indiana this year. I have heard that muzzle loaders will shoot farther than cowboy rifles and are more accurate. What is your opinions on these theries? I have 2 muzzle loaders and I don't want to buy a new rifle if it isn't better than a muzzle loader.

RE: the so called cowboy rifles vs muzzle loaders
 

What do the call a "cowboy rifle"? Maybe the Win. type .44, .45, that shoot pistol cartridges? Black powder cartridge rifles?

RE: the so called cowboy rifles vs muzzle loaders
 

Are they talking about Marlin and Winchester lever actions without scopes or what? I think I had rather have one of the new muzzleloaders with a scope. The term primitive hardly fits the modern muzzleloaders.

RE: the so called cowboy rifles vs muzzle loaders
 

I guess a cowboy rifle would be like the Marlin '95 Cowboy in 45-70 Gov, it's made like a cowboy rifle, maybe Uberti rifles would also count.

RE: the so called cowboy rifles vs muzzle loaders
 

If they are allowing cowboy action rifles then a 30-30 is a lot better than a muzzleloader.

RE: the so called cowboy rifles vs muzzle loaders
 

"Cowboy rifle" is not the correct term. Indiana is allowing "pistol cartridge rifles" chambered for cartridges like 44 mag, 357, 45 colt and others. Max CASE length is 1.625" (I think).

The cartridge is the limiting criterion, it is not based on action type. Semi-autos are legal, as are bolt actions, pumps, single shotsand levers. Scopes are also legal.

I can't tell you which is "better" but a 44 mag is a good deer round out to 100 yds. I'm sure some would say it's good to 150.

RE: the so called cowboy rifles vs muzzle loaders
 

So Indiana isextending its season and adding this "pistol cartridge rifle" and/or subtracting from another portion?

I'm just asking, was originally from Indiana and wondering if other states will follow suit.

RE: the so called cowboy rifles vs muzzle loaders
 

To provide an exact definition of the rifles that will be allowed here is a quote from the Indiana Hunting and Trapping Guide.

"Rifle with pistol cartriges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger:have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches;and have a maximum case length of 1.625 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearms season. Some cartriges legal for deer hunting include the 357 Magnum, 38-40 Winchester, 41 Magnum, 41 Special, 44 Magnum, 44 Special, 44-40 Winchester, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 475 Linebaugh, 480 Ruger, 50 Action Express, and 500 S&W."

I work for a sporting goods store and we have had a lot of people asking about this for the past month. The problem with these cartriges is that it is very hard to find a rifle in one of these rounds. When the hunting and trapping guide came out I looked through our special order book to see how many guns are actually chambered for these rounds, and it is very slim pickings. To me people might as well stick with their muzzleloaders and slug guns.

RE: the so called cowboy rifles vs muzzle loaders
 

The pistol cartrige guns are now legal hunting equipment allong with shotguns, muzzleloaders, and handguns. All of these can be used durring the firearms season from Nov. 17- Dec. 2.

RE: the so called cowboy rifles vs muzzle loaders
 

I don't think there is any shortage of available rifles in those caliber. Marlin, Uberti, Henry amd Rossi all make them and every gun store in out area either carries them in stock or can have them in a week. The 44 Mag rifle is one I have used a lot and is a very good deer round in a carbine or rifle. The main advantage of course is the availability of follow up shots. Range and efficiency doesn't differ a lot from the muzzle loader.

RE: the so called cowboy rifles vs muzzle loaders
 

Yes, all of those manufactures that you listed do produce rifles that fire pistol cartriges. I am not saying that they are not impossible to find, they just aren't as easy to come by as say the 30-30 which many people thought would be allowed.

RE: the so called cowboy rifles vs muzzle loaders
 

I did a quick search on simple ballistics for some of these rounds and the only thing that comes really close is the .500 cartridges. They throw a similar bullet at velocities equal to an inline muzzle loader. As far as the normal options like a .357 or .44 mag in a carbine the inline muzzle loader or sabot slug gun would be better in the performance department. They can throw a bullet the same caliber or bigger that is heavier (almost twice in some cases) at higher velocities.

This is from the winchester catalog on their website.

44 mag rifle ballistics with a 240 grn Super X hollow soft point

Muzzle------ 1760 fps with 1650 ft/lbs of energy
100 yards--- 1362 fps with 988 ft/lbs of energy

With the winchester platinum tip 12 ga slug loads using a 50 cal 400 grn XTP style bullet it looks like this.

Muzzle-----1700 fps with 2566 ft/lbs of energy
100 yards--1420 fps with 1791 ft/lbs of energy

And there are more potent slug offerings than that.

And inline ML's fall somewhere in there as well, some a bit better, some a bit less. Depends on what you have and how you load it. My Remington 700 ML shoots a Precision Rifle lead bullet with a polymer tip that weighs 350 grns. I get around 1650-1700 fps out of it with 100-110 grn of clean shot (pioneer). And that is sort of weak compared to some other loadings. No where near a magnum charge. My bullets have a pretty good BC compared to most ML bullets or slug gun bullets though.

That being said I think a 44 mag in a carbine would be plenty for deer out to 100 yards, and I think it would be easier to shoot and find an accurate load for. Keep in mind these slugs I listed are near 15 bucks for 5 rounds!! And they kick waaaaaay more than a 44 mag.

If they legalize it in Michigan I might seriously consider looking into one. I have always wanted a 44 or .357 mag lever gun. This would be a good reason to get one;).

My take on it anyway. Keep in mind I am not considering the oddball loads or hand loading. Just what your average guy would go down to the local guns store and purchase.

Paul

RE: the so called cowboy rifles vs muzzle loaders
 

I am not real sure where some of this information is coming from. I have been hunting with a 44 magnum, and other pistol caliber rifle's for years. The 454 can generate over 2300fps in a Puma lever action rifle. These rifles with a 240 grain(44 or 454) bullet can easily kill deer at 200 yards. Farther for the 454. Most BP shooter's are shooting 44 magnum bullets in their MZ!! The 44 magnum can easily attain 1800fps in a lever rifle with a 240 grain bullet.

People shoot 44 magnum pistol's over 100 yards?? Why would you believe a rifle is less capable?? People in Indiana are in for a real treat. If you want open sights then buy a Puma in 454. If you want a scope then buy a Marlin in 44 magnum. They will be very east to find.

I do not know if the 460S&W is legal, but if it is then imagine one in an Encore!! Man that would be a real hammer!! Or just get a 500S&W in an Encore, and hang on!!

Muzzle loader's and shotguns more effective. I do not think so!! Tom.

RE: the so called cowboy rifles vs muzzle loaders
 

For me there isn't a large benifit for someone to go out and buy one of these guns just for the 2 weeks of season you can use it. If a person is going to put their money into a new gun they might as well invest into a muzzleloader because you could use that one gun for both firearms season and muzzleloader season.I don't think it matters if you kill a deer with a pistol cartrige rifle or a muzzleloader because both will kill a deer at a distance you feel comfortable shooting at.

RE: the so called cowboy rifles vs muzzle loaders
 

Jim, wouldn't spend the money on one of these "cowboy rifles" unless you are just dieing to have one. My H & R Ultra Slughunter has worked great for me. I also like muzzleloaders, just like the ease of carrying a few slugs with me instead of a goody bag etc, for the muzzleloader. The shotgun is also a lot less finicky, always fires. Since you already have muzzleloaders, just use those would be my advice.