self defence gun
 

i am looking at buying a home protection /selfdefence shotgun i have looked at a few one was a mossberg500 with a pistolgrip only stock pump nice gun cost was 300 new from dealer the other was a tactical shotgun which had a stock that was telecoping like a ar15 stock with the pistol grip on it also it's sight where alot like a ar15 with a upper rail and a big front sight it was 800 semiauto which i likednot sure of maker but it was at gander mountain outdoor world which should i get i know one is a in house gun and the other is more long range but with eh telescoping stock closed it is just like the mosseberg also should i go semiauto or pump the money ate much of a worry but if i do not have to spend the extra 500 ii wont but i do not wont to have the wroung gun

RE: self defence gun
 

Do you own a shotgun already?

If so, buy the same type of shotgun you have now and make modifications to it for your home defense shotgun. That way, you already know all the functions of the gun making it easier to operate in a rushed, dark situation.

RE: self defence gun
 

i do not have a shotgun right now but had a mossberg 500 turkey gun which is the stock model of the self defence gun but should i go semi auto

RE: self defence gun
 

I prefer the pump action because in my opinion they are more reliable.

RE: self defence gun
 

Get a pump there is nothing that will freeze a person faster than the sound of a shotgun being pumped.

RE: self defence gun
 

Why not the Taurus 410 pistol.















PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

THIS .45/.410 (2.5" chamber) REVOLVER ALSO FIRES THE POPULAR .45 COLT. IT'S SPECIALLY DESIGNED FRAME WITH ELONGATED CYLINDER TO ACCOMMODATE ALL THESE VARIOUS SHELLS. SO GRAB A CASE OF 410'S AND HEAD FOR THE CLAY BIRD RANGE. YOU'LL FIND YOURSELF HITTING AERIAL TARGETS LIKE A





FEATURES[/b] | ACCESSORIES | PARTS | MANUAL




SPECIFICATIONS









Model:
4510TKR-3SS

Caliber:
.45/.410 (2.5" chamber).

Capacity:
5

Barrel Length:
3"

Action:
DA/SA

Finish:
Matte Stainless Steel

Grips:
Ribber

Weight:
29 oz

Construction:
Steel

Frame:
Compact

Front Sight:
Red Fiber Optic Fixed

Rear Sight:
Fixed

Trigger Type:
Smooth

Length:
9.5"

Width:
1.531"

Height:
5.394"

Rate of Twist:
1:12"

Grooves:
6

Safety:
Firing Pin Block,Transfer Bar

RE: self defence gun
 

Because you don't carry a pistol to a gun fight.

RE: self defence gun
 

Best home defense weapon Mossberg 500. Inexpensive(paid $200.00 in 95),reliable and if you have owned one for 30 plus years you know where everything is located. Thumb safety on top, ejector button ,lt side behind the trigger guard (best for a rt hand shooter). Now for hunting, i prefer my remington 870 -#1 reason, it doesn't kick like a mule as my mossberg 500does but gives a push instead, alsothe trigger is more "attuned' to hunting situations than the 500.

RE: self defence gun
 

Gotta agree with the mossberg for all the reasons above. Reliaility, that unforgettale sound of the action, less likely to jam.

RE: self defence gun
 

Really? What do you call this? I call it a bad guys nighmare.

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-Redhawk4.htm

RE: self defence gun
 

Or nothing in the world that will give your position away faster and bring incoming fire:eek:

I'd go with Stoeger coachgun myself. Its cheap, there's no repeating action to jam or shortstroke, and its a matter of pulling one trigger after the other to get 2 shots off. The short barrel is a huge plus also.

RE: self defence gun
 

1. The word is "defense" not "defence".
2. Basic Englishpunctuation rules: http://esl.about.com/od/englishgrammar/a/a_punctuation.htm

RE: self defence gun
 

I personally wouldn't get a gun that looked like it was designed to shoot someoene with. Don't get a gun and trick it all out with tactical stuff, or get one that looks like it was designed for it. Like a pistol grip and really short barrel etc. Just get a regular shotgun with a short but legal barrel and learn to shoot it well.

This way if God forbid you ever do have to shoot someone you will look like the average joe that was protecting his home and family with what he had. Not some nutcase that went out and specifically purchased or modified a weapon with the sole intent on killing someone. And yes they can try and make it look that way, and may.

Mossberg or 870 with a tight choke and some buckshot, either will work perfectly well. Just know your local laws and how to shoot.

Paul

RE: self defence gun
 

paul....i never thought of stuff like that...thats pretty good thinkin. i guess it would look pretty bad if i had to drop a crook with my mossberg 590 with side saddle, speedfeed stock, mounted flashlight etc....but...then again after they look around the house they will soon notice we are not average joes...we like our guns...we got lots of ammo for our guns...

so i guess if i was buying a gun for home defense, and didnt have the quantity of guns and ammo i do have in my house, then a plain jane mossberg 500 or 870 would do its job, and wouldnt make me look like i was waitin for that day...just look like i grabbed my shotgun in fear for my life and had to use it...

RE: self defence gun
 

if you want a semi auto get a Rem 11-87... it's a gas design not inertia, meaning you don't have to shoulder it to make it cycle. This is important if you have to shoot it from the hip.

RE: self defence gun
 

Bigtime, have you ever fired one of those 12 ga. guns with only a pistol grip?
Darn near broke my wrist.

RE: self defence gun
 

You left out a couple of facts. Who will be using the shotgun?? All persons who might use it, need to be proficient with it?? Your considerations should be, gauge(because of recoil), stock length(person's size), and pistol grip(they can make recoil unmanageable for small people, but the grip can be necessary in close quarters to keep the assailant from taking the gun away from you).

The type of ammo you use should be determined by two factors. 1. The capabilities of all possible user's to handle the recoil-emphasis on "ALL". 2. Collateral damage-you must be careful as your are more apt to injure a loved one instead of the assailant. Buckshot is out-it will penetrate walls and kill your son in the next room. Use your head when you pick your ammo.

I would go with a pump action, that has the double slide. Dependability is paramount. IMO the pump is more reliable, and the double slide is the best. Also as stated above the noise the slide makes is a deterrant. Also as stated above the way it looks is very important.

I consider a 20 gauge 870 as a great choice. Light load 7-1/2's make a great load(Right mix of recoil and penetration-IMO). Youth model works well in tight quarters, and can be used by all possible family member's. Sorry to rant, but this really is an important decision. Tom.

RE: self defence gun
 

Wow you sound extremely ignorant.

bigtim, are you set on a shotgun, if so why? I think you would be better off with a semi-automatic,maybe a 1911 or a Sig Sauer P226.

RE: self defence gun
 

Yep, i'm Stupid as all get out...

When I took my 1st CCW class 8-10 years ago, the instructor was a local deputy and he had been on several drug busts...He was a pretty good fan of a Glock, because as he said, even cops get excited, and a 1911 has too many buttons for the average homeowner to be able to reliably use during a fight...

He told us that when he went into a drug house, his pistol was on his hip and his 12 gauge was in his hands, his actual quote was more "You don't take a d@@n pistol to a gun fight"...Not when you know the stuff is going to hit the fan...You take a 12 gauge...If an intruder is in your house and you are armed, your odds of putting him down are much better with multiple pellets from a open choked 12 gauge than from a single projectile from a pistol.

Think about it, a handgun is made for personal protection...They also have power and size limitations when compared with a long gun...Now I carry a Glock 23 to my office every day and I do have a few handguns in different areas of my home in case I need them quickly....But, I keep a Remington 1100 12 guage deer shotgun (21 inch barrel) under my bed, loaded with #1 buckshot....If you ever need to clear a room, I hope you have a 12 gauge in your hands....

Please excuse all the misspellings and punctuations, but as everyone knows, I'm pretty ignorant...:D

RE: self defence gun
 

They call this the Judge..... There is a video at the taurus web site...

I'll try to link it.

http://www.taurususa.com/video/taurus-theJudge-video.cfm

I plan on buying one soon.

RE: self defence gun
 

CCI is now making shotshells in pistol carts. I think they come in 9mm, .40, and .38. Maybe more. Cheaper than Dirt! sells them. The shot size might be a little small for home defense if used alone, but I think a mixed load of the shotshells and hollowpoints would make things interesting.

RE: self defence gun
 

To Nchawkeye, I do not consider your comments as stupid. And I also believe what you say about an officer going into a bad place. However it is my opinion that in your own house there are normally more friendly's than enemies. You can figure when an officer is going into a bad place there are not alot of friendly's inside. High powered 12 gauge buckshot loads will penetrate several walls, so I would be careful with such loads. Again IMO I could be less concerned with a light 20 gauge load, and I feel this load is effective on intruder's. Considerably more effective than most, if not all pistol loads. Tom.

RE: self defence gun
 

I've shot one of those Taurus 410/.45and I didn;t think it was much fun. If I have my way, i will never shoot one again.

Go with a shotgun.

RE: self defence gun
 

Same thing they taught us in our concealed weapons class. The type of ammo you shoot will also come up if you go to court!

RE: self defence gun
 

BA, this not about grammer, its about learning and helping each other and just plain 'ol fun. Why don't you go lay in the yard with the rest of the turds!

RE: self defence gun
 

Agreed. No need for confrontation just to be a jerk.

Anyway, I'd recommend a .40 XD. A great pistol; more reliable, cheaper, and compact than the glock.

RE: self defence gun
 

I agree wth the sentiment about not bringing a pistol to a gunsfight- a pistol is only for use when a longgun is not convenient or practicala nd I can't see where in a house a shotgun,carbine, or rifle is inconvenient.

An armed intruder is likely to be armed with a pistol- its easy for him to carry, and its not an encumbrance as he''s carrying your valuables out. Why would you fight on the same level and use a handgun when a shotgun is far superior?

As far as penetration goes, a handhun 9mm and up is going to penetrate more walls and is more likely to intrude intoyor neghbor's home than a shotgun loaded with birdshot. For that matter, an AR-15 carbine loaded with lightweight hollowpoints or even frangible bullets is going to penetrate less building materials and be a mch better manstoper than any handgun.

RE: self defence gun
 

just a couple of thoughts:

Many citizens tend to walk around their home looking for the intruder. It is much easier in that case for the perpetratorto disarm someone that is holding a shotgun. (think someone walking around with the barrel out in front of them as they reach a corner)
Also if it ever comes down to getting real close maybe even a hand to hand situation a handgun is much more effective as all you need is a little room to be able to get off a shot.

However, If we are talking about retreating to the farthest room, turning on all lights and wating for someone to enter that locked room while you are behind some cover then I'll certainly take the shotgun.

RE: self defence gun
 

If you are doing it right, its not a problem. You want to pie a corner or room before sticking any part of you or your weapon beyond what you can see. At any rate, get your family safe in one room, and let the police clear your residence- its a very dangerous process even for people who are working in teams and have a lot of training and experience let alone a single person with absolutely no training to do.

RE: self defence gun
 

NO doubt Briman,
My plan, and we as a family have practiced it, is to retreat to my bedroom. We stay there and let whatever is happening in the house happen while calling the police and waiting for them to take care of whoever has entered.
Lord help anyone walking through that door that has not been identified.

However I will say that the average person will be walking through the house looking for whoever has come in. That is not a good situation.

RE: self defence gun
 

Most people if they ever do have to shoot someone can't hit accurately with a pistol. You may be able to cut the bullseye out when you are practicing but if you have to shoot a person it is a different story. People get excited and the adreneline starts pumping and it is hard for people to shoot. That is where a shotgun works better. The best case is to not have to shoot at all and when you look down the barrel of a shotgun you think twice about arguing with the person. I keep #2 shot in mine it has more pellets than buckshot so you have a better chance of hitting them and it will still stop them in their tracks. I've seen a guy get shot 3 times in the gut with a .38 and get up and run off. He was dumped off at a hospital later that night and died the next day. Though if the guy that shot himwould of had a shotgun the guy never would of made it away.

RE: self defence gun
 

Hi Jeff,
IMO, most shooting in a home invasion or burglary situation is done at 10 feet or less. When speaking of accuracy how is the shotgun more accurate than the pistol? What is the diameter of the pellet spread at 10 feet?
Believe me, I have a shotgun and a pistol in my room and when hunkered down with all of my family in that room I will have the shotgun in my hands. so I'm not suggesting it is not an effective tool. I am saying that in some situations a pistol can be equally effective and potentially more effective in a home invasion scenrio.
When I mention more effective I am thinking of a veryclose quarters almost hand to hand situation.

RE: self defense gun
 

I am a pretty good sized guy. 6'3" 240 pounds. I tried the Mossberg pump with the pistol grip, and I quickly learned that it would not be my first choice in the heat of a short quick battle in my home. First of all, I don't trust myself shooting it from the hip, and if I aim it I am sure to bust my lip or lose a tooth from the recoil.

My choice was a double coach gun in 20 guage. It handles extremely well, and a 20 guage has all the power you will ever need at down the hall, or across the room range. It is just the wife and I at home so I go with #3 buckshot since she will be at my side. I know there is sentiment for the sound of a cycled shell from the pump, and I believe a pump is a good choice, but I prefer the silence factor. I am a firm believer if God forbid you have to defend yourself with a gun that you shoot to kill...not scare. The sound of a pump will certainly scare the intruder, but the bullet from his gun will have no idea or give a hoot he just soiled his pants once it's headed in your general proximity.

C. Davis

RE: self defense gun
 

That's true though ideally the intruder won't be able to get that close before you have to shoot. It is best to use what you feel comfortable with. A friend of mine had to shoot someone that tried to rob him and a friend of his. He was waiting in the truck while his buddy went inside a store to buy something. Well the store couldn't break a hundred so he came back outside and my buddy seen some guy follow him out. So he got his pistol and laid it in his lap. The guy walked up and stuck the gun through the window and tried to rob them. When he stuck the gun inside my buddy shot him in the chest. At really close range a pistol is easier though if the range is a little farther a shotgun is easier to hit with. I wouldn't want either one pulled on me. I had a little .25 auto stuck inmy face before and no matter how small the gun is it looks really big when you look down the barrel of it.

RE: self defense gun
 

Pretty much anyone in the Law Enforcement or Military field are going to agree a shotgun with the right ammo is a far superior weapon to any pistol. And a 410 pistol in my opinion is the most worthless thing you could have in your hand in that situation. You might be better off throwing the gun at them if it's heavy. Unless you get invaded by squirrels, and then you better hope they are not big ones;).

I did some testing a few years ago with a couple of shotguns, different chokes and loads. I was trying to find out how well regular shot would work compared to buckshot at close ranges. The one thing I found out is that the choke you use makes a big difference. The difference between a modified choke and turkey choke at ranges from 10 ft to 10 yards was VERY impressive. I tried shot from target #8 loads up to #4 magnum turkey loads. I won't go into detail, I have a detailed outline on another site I will try and dig up if I can. But all said and done my home defense load is a #4 turkey load with a super full choke. I live in a trailer court. If I live in a bigger house or in the country small buckshot would be my choice.

Sawed off shotguns and cylinder bore chokes might sound cool but take my word for it, a tighter choke performs much better with shot at these distances. And from what I have seen on static targets and different types of game smaller shot like 7 and 8 just doesn't penetrate well enough unless you are at point blank range, especially with a more open choke. Makes an impressive looking wound, but doesn't do any real damage internally. And if the person is wearing heavy clothing or a leather coat bird shot with a modified choke at beyond 10 yards may not even hurt them, other than superficial wounds.

And slugs are way overkill in the penetration department unless you are in a very rural area or expect to shoot through barriers, like a car door or large piece of furniture.

And when I was talking about not having an "evil" looking gun I am not talking about what the police think, but more along along the lines if it happens to go to trial. Most likely your other guns won't be an issue, but the one you used to kill or injure (bad idea) someone with will be evidence in the trial. And along those lines, remember a dead guy can't testify against you in court.

I took an urban defense class many years ago when I lived in California. The three main things they talked about were like I mentioned about not modifying a weapon. Second, shoot to kill and make it look like you were truly in fear for your or your loved ones lives. Don't go walking through the house clearing it like a swat member (unless you are a trained person in this field), or shoot to wound someone then call the police. Two big reasons are that like I said, injured people can sue the crap out of you. Yes, even if they broke into your house. And second it makes it look like you had too much control over the situation. I know that sounds dumb, but a lawyer explained to us how it would play out in a court room. You are better off emptying the gun into the guy than you would be shooting him once and waiting to see what happened.

And the third thing is you have to know the law where you live. In a lot of states and cities you can't just get a gun and shoot someone that comes in your house or yard. In many places you have to prove they were a real threat to your life. In almost all places they HAVE to be IN your home. Shooting someone on your porch will most likely turn out bad for you, even if they were armed. I have a cousin that went to prison for shooting someone in his front yard, and the other guy was armed as well. Crappy law, but the law none the less. And some places you have to tell the intruder to leave and tell them you have a weapon before you shoot them. Of course it's your word against his, and if he's dead that makes it a bit easier. Remember, dead people don't testify.

In most cases they do not suggest you go looking for the person. You retreat to a safe room, yours or the kids bedroom, then call the police and let the intruder know you are armed (or not;)) and that you have called the police. Then wait for them to come to you. It's easier to defend a position then it is to go searching for a target. In a lot of states and cities they just don't feel your tv is worth a life, even that of a criminal.

This would really depend on the size of your house and how things unfolded though.

And these are only things I was told in a class more than 15 years ago, maybe 20 and my opinions. I am not an officer nor have I ever shot anyone. I have talked to many that have though.

Paul

RE: self defense gun
 

Definitely a good idea to stay put with the shotgun rather than going out looking around. I am trained to do this kind of stuff, and I wouldn't go looking for the intruder. Having your family in the house makes a big difference. Just call out, "I'm unarmed in the bedroom, please don't hurt me, all the jewelery and money are in here with me!". 5-4-3-2-1 BOOM!;)

RE: self defence gun
 

You are kidding right:)That little pistol will blow a hole through you while your still trying to figure out which end is which with your long-gun in close quarters. that pistol; is a Bad Man[:-]

RE: self defence gun
 

I agree. The racking sound of a shotgun is quite impressive, although not as much when you hear two faint clicks of safeties being clicked off in the living room. I'm sorry. I will never, EVER let someone know I'm about to end their life. I'm a cop, and maybe my training has something to do with it. I'm like Gabe over on warrior talk, shoot them to the GROUND. Get a good pump shotgun(remington 870 is MY personal pref.), put a light on it and LEAVE IT ALONE. You don't want it looking tacti-cool, that'll get you eaten alive in court. If you are asked about the light in court, say you were using it to be able toidentifyyour neighbor in need of sugar from an intruder(yeah, right). I have tritium rifle sights on mine, but again thats a personal thing. A tritium bead could be your thing as as could be tritium ghost ring sights(if you find them, let me know). And one more time,for gooodnesssakes don't let the badguy know your coming armed, just get in the fight and stay there until you win. If he is not courteous enough to knock, i'm not courteous enough to give him a warning.

EDIT TO ADD
A buddy of mine killed someone w/ his duty gun. His gun had a modified trigger, was a 3.5lbs trigger on a glock. When the attorney made mention of it, he claimed he could not accurately shoot his duty gun w/ the 5.5 trigger. He even went on to say that his department's qualifications were not enough to prove to HIM that he could accurately shoot ONLY the badguy w/ his duty gun. In order to not kill a 7 or 8 year old, he made his gun easier to shoot. If you use this testimony in court one day for whatever reason(say, the light), make dang sure you didn't kill little suzie. It just will make your life hard. Also, did i mention you need to shoot the guy to the ground???

RE: self defence gun
 

Ain't life great .... we all get to have an opinion and it can be true in general or only for us, but either way as long as it works for us, it's all good.

I personally cannot see keeping a loaded shotgun for my wife, on her side of the bed, and expect her to be able to use it effectively in the middle of the night , in the dark..... but I do know she could grab a Taurus Judge quickly with one hand and come up shooting. I have seen her working with various handguns and the girl has got it going on. In fact she is a hell of a shot. I can put any handgun I own in her hands, and she is deadly with it. But I also know if I put a shotgun in her hands and she tried to manuver it to shoot from a dead sleep, if she ever did get to it and get it around, that she might wind up back in that DEAD sleep.

She likes handguns and feels confident with them, so what works for her might not work for you , and what works for you might not work for her... but thats why it is called an opinion. And I don't feel that we need to call names or ridicule others because they do not subscribe to our line of thought.....

Show me someone, who is supposedly a knowledgable professional, who believes as you do , ..... and I'll show you some people who agree with me. Just use what works for you, give people your opinions when someone asks for them, and then let them decide what works best for them, ....... and stay safe. Cause it doesn't matter what you kill the perp with , as long as you kill him.... Dead is dead.

RE: self defence gun
 

I don't recall seeing anyone name calling? Just giving their opinions or disagreeing with someone else's. I don't think anything said was meant to be mean.

That pistol might be ok if loaded with the pistol cartridge, if you can shoot it well. I don't think I could shoot that cartridge well in that gun though. However with a .410 load I wouldn't suggest it. They are not worth much in a long gun, let alone a pistol. At least not for self defense anyway.

It is pretty much a proven fact that long guns are easier to learn to shoot than a handgun is. Handling and shooting a handgun takes a bit more skill and practice than a shotgun or rifle. And shooting a semi auto adds another factor to it as far as knowing the weapon and how it works. If you want to use a handgun I suggest getting plenty of practice with it.

I think you could teach her to shoot a shotgun effectively in a matter of a few weeks if she is that good with a handgun. Shotguns are pretty simple for the most part. My girlfriend took one lesson at a trap range and by the end could hit about half the clays. And she had never shot a gun before. I think she could handle a shotgun on a human sized target 10 yards away.

I do agree though, go with what YOU feel comfortable with and are proficient with. I would feel at home with either and used a Browning HI Power for years as a defense weapon. As I got older and played more though I just feel a shotgun with the correct load is a superior weapon for this sort of thing. I have seen the damage both will do to targets and live game and the shotgun is by far the winner to me.


A longer barrel is normally more accurate in a pointing situation than a shorter barrel is. It would be easier and quicker to hit with a longer shotgun barrel than it would with a shorter pistol barrel. I can hit center mass on a target pretty much every time with a shotgun by snapping it up and pulling the trigger. This is a bit harder to do with a pistol.

As far as spread goes, depends on the load you use and the choke. My tests showed an average of around 3-4 inches. The thing to keep in mind is this is not a 3 to 4 inch group of 6 bullets. But basically a solid column of shot 3 inches in diameter. Which means if your close enough with the right load and right choke you could blow a hole up to 3 inches in diameter through someone. That is a pretty devastating wound compared to a 9mm or 45 cal.

Your kidding right? Why do people think its that difficult to shoot a shotgun? Shoulder it (if you want to) point and pull the trigger. Not extremely tricky to figure out. If it's not loaded, pull the pump back and push it back up, then point and pull the trigger. Not much different than racking the slide on an auto (except it's easier to pump a shotgun for most women or small people), or picking up a revolver, aiming it and pulling through a long double action trigger accurately.

Here are a few pictures of what three different 12 gauges did to an old speaker box with various loads and chokes.

front view

top view

back view


Here is a link to a post I made a while ago in another forum. It's the last one on that page. The links to the pictures don't work anymore though, I use a different host now.

Bird shot test

Your are right though, they are only my opinions and nothing more.

Paul