accuracy of semi-auto?
 

ive been hunting for a new rifle. many have crossed my mind, and i have discluded the rem. 700 BDL, the ruger M77, and Browning A-Bolt. i am 99.9% sure that the Browning Automatic Rifle LongTrac is for me. but accuracy is a concern. i know that bolt action rifles have better accuracy than semi-autos, but ive read that this rifle has accuracy that can compete with high-end bolt action rifles, but i cant always believe the retailer. does anyone have an answer???

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

Of the BARs I've seen others use (and it's not a lot) the accuracy has been totally worthy of hunting rifles. They also seem to be quite reliable making them a good choice for a semi auto rifle.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

go with the bolt.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

For accuracy go with a bolt! Bolts are also easier to keep clean, and take care of. Lots less to go wrong with a bolt!

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RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

If you ever come across a Browning BARSafari semi-auto, get it, I hear great things about it, and the BOSS system, if you learn how to use it, can really make up for accuracy problems, and it serves as a muzzlebreak as well. If you don't want the muzzlebreak, then get the Conventional Recoil BOSS, that gives you accuracy, but keeps recoil.

If you get the BOSS system, which works, my dad has one, the auto-loader accuracy problem won't be an issue. I have seen the BOSS system work while sighting in the BOSS system, and anyone who says it doesn't work has spaghetti instead of a brain.

For the record, I'm a Remington man myself, but I know Browning is a fine product, just like Remington.;)

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

im a remington fan myself:)bolts are my gun of choice, but if i can get a semi auto with bolt accuracy, it would greatly help my shooting experience because of the reduced recoil. my neighbor down the street has a bar safari in 7mm. ive never seen him shoot it.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

What kind of terrain are you hunting (location?) and what is your intended game? If you are hunting in the east/south where most shots are under 150 yards it doesn't make a hoot what sort of action you have. But if you are hunting speed goats at 400 yards or wanting to do a little benchrest....you might want to go a different route. Semi's in general are plenty accurate enough to get the job done, just don't expect a one-holer.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

im in south carolina. and you're right, my average shot is around 150. What about 200 yard shots? last year from my tower stand i shot a deer from about 210 yds with my bolt. do you think a semi could handle that?

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

I knew a couple of guys that used to get good results out of the Russian Tigr semi-autos. They are made by Izhmash and might be worth a look. I know they were hitting 1 liter bottles at 500, but I'm also pretty sure they did some work on the guns to get them to do it. I shoot a Russian Saiga built by the same company. It is a carbine model chambered for .223. It shoots pretty good groups out to 200, but after that it gets a little wild even with the good ammo. I'm sure if I had some work done to it, I could get smaller groups, but I don't hunt where I can see 300 yards, much less take a shot that long, so it works. If you are a real stickler for accuracy, bolt action or single shot is the way to go.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

i also would not take shots 300 or over either. 250 yds. is also uncomfortable. im not expecting the BAR to be a tac driver, but i also didnt want it to shoot 2-inch groups at 100 yds. :)

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

Sounds like the BAR might be the gun for you, it can easily shoot sub-minute of whitetail at 200. I have wanted one for a while as well, it is in line behind the BLR on my wish list.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

its lookin like that is the right gun for me:).

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

Try one out. I've seen some that are sub MOA and I've seen some that are a 3" wonder gun at 100 yards.

I'd stay away from the BOSS system all-together.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

i wasnt planning on getting the BOSS system, i was gonna get the LongTrac.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

Sometimes the BAR comes with the BOSS already screwed on the end of the muzzle.

It works, but it is complicated, but if you figure it out, it can help, my dad has one on his A-Bolt 7mm Rem Mag, it does make a difference, but I find that my Remington 673 in .308 Win.actually shoots consistantlybetter.
It'll probably get better once I get ahold of some Outer's Bore Foam.

Josiah

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

For most hunting situations a semi auto is more than accurate enough. Most people want a gun that will shoot sub moa though the majority of people never shoot over 75 yards at a deer. I hunt West Texas where you might have a shot over 400 - 500 yards but the farthest I've had to shoot is 200 yards and the biggest deer I've seen in my life I jumped up at less than 20 yards and I had my gun jam. I took a friends .270 because of long shots and the safety was broke so I didn't carry a round in the chamber and it jammed when I tried to load it. If I would of carried my Marlin lever action like I was going to I would of had it. My grandfather hunted Colorado with a 30-30 and shot the biggest deer of the group.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

well the BOSS System seems good, but it costs over $1000. Not that $930 is far away, but when you're 16 years old, your paycheck is almost minimum wage...

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

Check out the Benelli R1. ;)

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

A gun with the BOSS system does not cost over $1,000.

My dad bought his A-Bolt USED, but in mint condition, with the BOSS system, for $750, since he talked him down from $830, and since this was at Gander Mtn, if you sign up for membership, you save 5% off of guns and ammo, and 10% off of optics.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

Chris;

When I was a kid (think 10), I had an A-Bolt 30-06, and this was when the BOSS system first came out in the early 90s. The gun was BEYOND loud, which is why I ended up getting rid of it, BUT I was a small framed 10 y.o shooting a 30-06. It litterally felt like shooting my 1100 20ga with dove loads. But, it was just too dang loud, even with ear plugs.

The BOSS is good for young/small kids, and certainly anyone with back or shoulder injury issues, that is VERY sensitive to recoil. But, with the gas operation of a BAR....you don't need it.

I was looking into a gun for a customer who had just had some back surgury. He wanted a .243 BAR with a BOSS. Since it wasn't offered, and Browning wouldn't make him one (even though he offered up the custom shop price...which was foolish of him), an engineer I spoke with at Browning said that the BAR, being gas operated will kill recoil much more than the BOSS system would on an A-Bolt (which was our only option with a .243). So if you are recoil sensitive, you'll be fine with the BAR.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

wow! that is a major cut in recoil. so if i get the BAR in .308, it would feel like a .270, or something in that range?

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

A 308 would probably feel like a 243 with a BOSS.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

.308 already has very similar recoil to a .270

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

I think the reason they are considered less accurate is because the barrels heat up from rapid shooting. I believe any gun that gets fired to fast will loose accuracy. I am sure that because of free float action they loosea bit of accuracy also. But other than that, It depends on what you call accurate.3/4 inch group at 100yrds is way good enough for a follow up shots and considered quite good. I try to stick to the one shot one kill rule.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

yes, i always stick to one the one shot rule. ifollow up shots is not why i want the BAR, its because of reduced recoil.i could get a larger caliber bullet without theraise of recoil energy, but it looks like i cant do that without a sacrifice in recoil.

does the remington 700 shoot. i know my dads is a tac driver. but ive seen and heard very bad things about that gun, such as flipping the safety off causing it to fire, and closing the bolt causing it to fire. thats why im leaning towards the browning.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

Those are VERY isolated cases Chris. The 700 is a fantastic design, very safe and very accurate. Most of the time, the things that cause those rifles to fire are things brought on by the users themselves...such as trying to adjust the trigger pull themselves, causing the sear to slip...and the gun to slam fire.

As far as trying to reduce recoil. I think that there are better ways to do that than going with a semi. There is certainly nothing wrong with that, but I think you will be able to save some money, and have a more accurate platform if you go with a standard bolt action. Many of the more popular calibers, such as .308, .270 and .30-06, now have ammo makers loading reduced recoil loads, which offer up to 50% less recoil out of the exact same gun. They are not quite as capable performance wise, so 300 yard shots are out....you'd probably want to keep it under 200. But I am sure that with a little practice at that range, you can be deadly with them. Then, once you get bigger, and more used to shooting, you can step right into full powered loads, and have an accurate bolt action rifle to use. Only thing that changes is the bullet...not the gun. Just an idea for you to think on.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

well, i changed my mind again from the BAR to the Rem 700. before, i knew thati was 100% sure that the BDL was my prefered choice of 700. but now, i think that the SPS Stainless i a better choice.

Do you have any experience with the stainless and the BDL? I can handle 150 gr. .270 shell; i just thought that the reduced recoil was an added bonus.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

I know your not thinking Rem. But I just bought a Rem 750 Woodsmaster 30-06... Shoots .75 - 1.0 inch groups at 100 yards with Remington 180gr PSP

Shot 2 does last fall. 1 was around 150 yards and the other was over 200 yards...;)

Just something to think about

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

The boss system is an adjustable weight on the barrel to tune the barrel for the load you are using. It's not a muzzle break, you can get it with a break, or without. However the BOSS system is a tunable barrel, not a muzzle break. If you don't want the noise don't get one with the break built in. I don't think that was an option years ago though.

I haven't shot a lot of different centerfire designs, but I have shot enough that I have shot one of each. And I have shot rimfires a lot in all of them. My opinion is it really doesn't matter. Semi Auto, bolt, break action, lever action or whatever they can all be accurate. It has more to do with the build quality and design of the particular gun over all, not the type of action.

I can't imagine a BAR being a piece of crap.

Paul

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

I would say to forget the reduced recoil rounds, and just spend the $20.00 and get a Limbsaver recoil pad, it works so good, my grandpa's Winchester Model 70 Bolt-action 30-06 used to kick so darn hard, but with the Limbsaver, it's fun to shoot, and my grandpa was actually trying to shoot shotgun shells with it!

Reduced recoil rounds would work out to 150 yard just fine, but I don't see how it would be neccessary, just spend $20-$30 once, instead of spending $20 every time you buy a box of ammo, just to get the same effect.


I would look into getting a Remington 673, I have one in .308, and it'll shootsmaller than 1 inch groups at 100 yards all day long, as long as you keep the barrel clean.
Remington 673's are on sale almost everywhere is gun stores now, so you might find a good deal on one.

The Remington 673 is based on the Model 7, which is a great rifle.
The 673 may look ugly from the pictures, but if you see one in real up close, it looks nice, has a beautiful beechwood stock.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

hunt with a Remington 7400 .270 win. I killed a deer at 386 yards 3 years ago. I shoot handloads, but i am very confident in the accuracy of an auto no matter what ammo you shoot. I am an auto lover for life!

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

I have a 1969 Belgium made Browning BAR and it's a very fine shooter and an absolutely amazingly well built rifle. I don't know about the Jap stuff but I would recommend an older BAR to anyone.

RE: accuracy of semi-auto?
 

Lets face it guys, 99% of hunters will never need the difference in accuracy between a bolt gun and a Semi Auto.Not to mention, (I know that this will hurt some feelings),most shooters, hunters, do not shoot well enough to see the difference anyway.Sure, bolt guns are inherently more accurate, but then there are some super semi Autos out there now too. If you want an accurate Semi Auto. Buy an Armalie AR-10
get one with the Varment type barrell and go to town.This Rifle will easily shoot out to 800-1000 yards.You might only be looking at an accruace difference of .25 MOA between the two rifles. but big deal. When you talk about killing an animal at less than 200 yds, generally less than 100 yds, that 1/4 inch difference is not going to make a difference.
If you want an excellent right out of the box bolt gun, I too am a hugh fan of the Remington. Buy a Remingon 700 PSS. You can use it up close, and you can shoot it out to 800-1000 yds if you are good enough.
What is boils down to, f you want a semi auto, in a large caliber, there are some excellent choice out there. Go ahead and get it. If you want a bolt gun, you won't go wrong there either.