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48thguns 05-06-2007 08:24 PM
The finest foreign military rifle?
 
Who made the finest foreign military rifle? GB, Swiss, Austria, Japan, Germany, Russia, Spain, Finland and on and on.

My choice is the Japanese 7.7mm Arisaka with monopod and AA sights. This rifle was a upgraded K98 with features which no other country had even the slightest clue. It is said by many to be the strongest bolt action rifle ever made (including Jack O'Connor). The flip out wing AA sights were innovative and worked. My father was a B25 pilot in the SP during WWII and griped about ground fire all the time while on strafing missions. The caliber is nearly identical to the Springfield '06 and the field disassembly is very simple which facilitates cleaning and maintenance. The Arisaka type 99.

mavwreck1975 05-06-2007 08:29 PM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
Bolt action-> Great Britain, Lee Enfield
Select Fire Battle Rifle->Belgium, FN FAL
Assault Rifle->USSR, AK-47

M77man 05-06-2007 11:55 PM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
The Japs were tough, obviously. But you have to be kidding me with that crap. Get that crap outta here!

Give me an M1A1 or 1903 anyday and if my partners in thy fox hole don't have any use for theirs anymore then I will honor theirs! HOORAH!

Aught Six 05-07-2007 05:40 AM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
I'm really leaning towards the Swiss K31. First and foremost, itstypical accuracy is excellent for a military rifle. It's also easy to shoot from behind cover quickly, andfield stripping is pretty quick and straightfoward. And to top it off, the 7.5 Swiss was an excellent cartridge that ranks up there with the 7.62x51.

I bought one recently but have not yet shot it extensively. I'll need some new glasses first in order to sit down for a good grouping session.

younggun308 05-07-2007 07:35 AM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
M1A1, M14, (Not Foreign)and Lee-Enfield (Made in U.S.A., but used Foreign)

Red Lion 05-07-2007 08:33 AM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
Since you asked for best foreign, I would say Mauser for all time bolt action and AK 47 otherwise.

falcon 05-07-2007 10:06 AM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
The Type 99 Arisaka was the first battle rifle to have a chrome plated bore. i've seen specimens that were rusted to heck on the outside with perfect bores.

Briman 05-07-2007 12:11 PM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
Very nice rifle[8D]

If I had to pick one rifle it would be the Swiss K-31.
Here's one of them that I put a clamp on scope mount on, I have 6 more of these beauties.:D



Edit; to add, the Swiss never used corrosively primed ammunition in the K-31s, and to top it off, the ammo was as good as any commercial match grade ammunition made today.

pahntr760 05-08-2007 08:48 PM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/tavor/Tavor.html

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/future-weapons/weapons/zone1/arsenal-6.html


this thing is awesome, eventhough it shoot 5.56.

statjunk 05-09-2007 06:07 AM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
I have to agree with those that said the Swiss. The trigger's on the Swiss are exceptional. The straight pull bolt allows for a fast transaction. The disassembly is very easy and straight forward. The accuracy is slightly unbelievable. A buddy of mine shoots pennies off paper from 50 yards with irons and no sand bags.

Tom

Duffy 05-10-2007 07:16 AM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
My first thought was to say the Mauser model 98 action was a very popular action on which to build all sorts of military rifles. It has and is still an action to build many custom sporting rifles.

But perhaps this question is looking at a specific tool in the hands of a military man. Where handsome is as handsome does, in the mud and the blood.

Robin in Rocky

eldeguello 05-10-2007 08:42 AM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
ORIGINAL: 48thguns

Who made the finest foreign military rifle? GB, Swiss, Austria, Japan, Germany, Russia, Spain, Finland and on and on.

My choice is the Japanese 7.7mm Arisaka with monopod and AA sights. This rifle was a upgraded K98 with features which no other country had even the slightest clue. It is said by many to be the strongest bolt action rifle ever made (including Jack O'Connor). The flip out wing AA sights were innovative and worked. My father was a B25 pilot in the SP during WWII and griped about ground fire all the time while on strafing missions. The caliber is nearly identical to the Springfield '06 and the field disassembly is very simple which facilitates cleaning and maintenance. The Arisaka type 99.
As far as a COMBAT BOLT-ACTION rifle is concerned, there is no doubt at all that the SMLE in its' various versions was the best BATTLE RIFLE. It is sufficiently accurate, and will deliverRAPID, AIMED FIRE faster than any other bolt action ever issued by anybody. The 10-round magazine helps in that regard.

When US forces began arriving in Britain in preparation for the trans-channel invasion of Europe, the Brits (Sir Winston) challenged us to a speed-vs-accuracy rifle match - we used the M1, the Brits used the No.4 Enfield. The Brits won!!

It is true that the ORIGINAL M 38 6.5mm Arisaka is the STRONGEST bolt-action ever, as P.O. Ackley proved. However the 7.7mm follow-on action is not a pure Arisaka, and it is NOT as strong as the M38s that were made during peacetime. I challenge your assertion that the Arisaka is an "improvement" over the M98 Mauser!

48thguns 05-11-2007 04:27 PM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
ORIGINAL: eldeguello

ORIGINAL: 48thguns

Who made the finest foreign military rifle? GB, Swiss, Austria, Japan, Germany, Russia, Spain, Finland and on and on.

My choice is the Japanese 7.7mm Arisaka with monopod and AA sights. This rifle was a upgraded K98 with features which no other country had even the slightest clue. It is said by many to be the strongest bolt action rifle ever made (including Jack O'Connor). The flip out wing AA sights were innovative and worked. My father was a B25 pilot in the SP during WWII and griped about ground fire all the time while on strafing missions. The caliber is nearly identical to the Springfield '06 and the field disassembly is very simple which facilitates cleaning and maintenance. The Arisaka type 99.
As far as a COMBAT BOLT-ACTION rifle is concerned, there is no doubt at all that the SMLE in its' various versions was the best BATTLE RIFLE. It is sufficiently accure, and will deliverRAPID, AIMED FIRE faster than any other bolt action ever issued by anybody. The 10-round magazine helps in that regard.

When US forces began arriving in Britain in preparation for the trans-channel invasion of Europe, the Brits (Sir Winston) challenged us to a speed-vs-accuracy rifle match - we used the M1, the Brits used the No.4 Enfield. The Brits won!!

It is true that the ORIGINAL M 38 6.5mm Arisaka is the STRONGEST bolt-action ever, as P.O. Ackley proved. However the 7.7mm follow-on action is not a pure Arisaka, and it is NOT as strong as the M38s that were made during peacetime. I challenge your assertion that the Arisaka is an "improvement" over the M98 Mauser!
Hello El d. I did not use the word "improvement" in my original post.....I used the word "upgrade" and I'll stick to that. The Anti-Aircraft sights and monopod are upgrades as well as the simple bolt design, IMHO. I challenge your assertion that the Type 99's were not as strong as the M38.....it's the same action. Having said that, the "last ditch" specimens were made in desperation and other than a collector rifle, probably unfit for serious shooting. The ones made up to the end of 42 were still up to very high standards from what I've seen.

I started this thread to get members to look at other military rifles and glean someinformation from these wonderful old pieces of history. You posted exactly the history I was looking for.....great story. I own 2 MK4 No 1 Enfields a Savage and a Long Branch and they are in my hall of fame right along with my03, 03A3, Garands and many others.

Enjoyed the friendly bantering. I'm suprised no one has mentioned the Sako M38 Mosin Nagant or the Swede. Regards, Rick.

Badger Boy 05-11-2007 08:54 PM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
in my opinion
the best foreign Bolt Action military, : Mauser 98 reliable, accurate, powerful 8mm bullet.

best assualt rifle: (reliablity wise: Ak-47) Performance wise H&K G-36C

eldeguello 05-12-2007 07:49 PM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
ORIGINAL: 48thguns

ORIGINAL: eldeguello

ORIGINAL: 48thguns

Who made the finest foreign military rifle? GB, Swiss, Austria, Japan, Germany, Russia, Spain, Finland and on and on.

My choice is the Japanese 7.7mm Arisaka with monopod and AA sights. This rifle was a upgraded K98 with features which no other country had even the slightest clue. It is said by many to be the strongest bolt action rifle ever made (including Jack O'Connor). The flip out wing AA sights were innovative and worked. My father was a B25 pilot in the SP during WWII and griped about ground fire all the time while on strafing missions. The caliber is nearly identical to the Springfield '06 and the field disassembly is very simple which facilitates cleaning and maintenance. The Arisaka type 99.
As far as a COMBAT BOLT-ACTION rifle is concerned, there is no doubt at all that the SMLE in its' various versions was the best BATTLE RIFLE. It is sufficiently accurate, and will deliverRAPID, AIMED FIRE faster than any other bolt action ever issued by anybody. The 10-round magazine helps in that regard.

When US forces began arriving in Britain in preparation for the trans-channel invasion of Europe, the Brits (Sir Winston) challenged us to a speed-vs-accuracy rifle match - we used the M1, the Brits used the No.4 Enfield. The Brits won!!

It is true that the ORIGINAL M 38 6.5mm Arisaka is the STRONGEST bolt-action ever, as P.O. Ackley proved. However the 7.7mm follow-on action is not a pure Arisaka, and it is NOT as strong as the M38s that were made during peacetime. I challenge your assertion that the Arisaka is an "improvement" over the M98 Mauser!
Hello El d. I did not use the word "improvement" in my original post.....I used the word "upgrade" and I'll stick to that. The Anti-Aircraft sights and monopod are upgrades as well as the simple bolt design, IMHO. I challenge your assertion that the Type 99's were not as strong as the M38.....it's the same action. Having said that, the "last ditch" specimens were made in desperation and other than a collector rifle, probably unfit for serious shooting. The ones made up to the end of 42 were still up to very high standards from what I've seen.

I started this thread to get members to look at other military rifles and glean someinformation from these wonderful old pieces of history. You posted exactly the history I was looking for.....great story. I own 2 MK4 No 1 Enfields a Savage and a Long Branch and they are in my hall of fame right along with my03, 03A3, Garands and many others.

Enjoyed the friendly bantering. I'm suprised no one has mentioned the Sako M38 Mosin Nagant or the Swede. Regards, Rick.
OK, Rick. I will concede that you probably know more about the 7.7mm Jap rifles than I do. I've only loaded ammo for one of them, and that was eons ago. I know they had that "airplane sight", but don't know how effective it was. I DO know most Japanese troops took those sheet-metal stamped bolt covers off their rifles and threw them away in order to quiet the riflesdown a little.

I see (understandably) that no-one mentioned any French rifles either.....

Californiadoctor 05-13-2007 12:29 PM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
There is a story, that may be apocrophal, that in the1500's aPortugese ship sailed from Lisbon to Japan and stopped along the way in Africa, India andSouth EastAsiabefore reaching Japan. They supposedly left a couple of muskets at each of the countries they stopped in as well as Japan. A few years later the Poertugeserepeated the voyage and found that all the guns they had left in Africa, India and South East Asia were broken, rusted and totally unusable. However, when they got to Japan they found that not only were the two original firearms they left still in perfect working order, but the Japanesehad made 30 more of better quality than the ones given to them by the Portugese. True or not, the story illustrates an impression that for some reason, Japanese culture is very conducive to manufacturing high quality goods.Whether it is a Lexus or an Arisaka rifle, the mentality of making the best product possible seems to be very strong there.

Caldoc

Rebel Hog 05-13-2007 01:08 PM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
Doc, you forgot to mention the Mitsubishi (The Zero).:)The Mitsubishi plant was one of the main targets for the atomic bomb on Hiroshima.

spd522 05-15-2007 12:29 AM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
Bolt gun- Mauser 98

Full size battle rifle- FAL

Carbine- .30 and above- AK47
Under .30 cal- SIG 550

c j 05-16-2007 09:08 PM
RE: The finest foreign military rifle?
 
For those of you who mentioned the Swiss K31:

ssshhhh!!!! (the more people that know about them, the fewer cheap ones I'm going to find! I only have two so far!! :D)


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