JUSTINL

Hey all.

Looking to purchase my first rifle & I have been blown away by all of the possible offerings out there.

Let's get some of the particulars out of the way.....

I live in Illinois & we can not use a rifle for deer hunting. I'd like to begin varmint hunting with a rifle (coyotes, fox, chucks, etc.) Most of the terrain that I will be hunting is semi open field. Not the 1000 yard vistas that you all out west have - nor the sub 100 yards "Big Woods" picture either.

I'm not one who likes to waste an animal without some use for it, so I'm looking to save the pelts of at least the foxes & coyotes. I don't have a ton of money to spend on something like this.

Any solutions?

I've been reading about the Winchester M70 Coyote in .223 . Seems to be a decent value, but I know that there are a bunch of good values out there. So - who want's to toss their $0.02 in the ring?



&quot;It's not the kill, it's the adventure and challenge! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>&quot;

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losthwy

Model 70 in the .223 would be an excellent choice. Someone has been doing their homework<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>.

there is no subsitute for quality

tiggeer

The 223 wssm winchester super short mag really little and fast and shoots just like the 223, a lil faster and shorter action!! My .2 cents worth

halcon

The 223 rem is a good round if you want to save the pelts .What make of gun is kind of up to you ,but will agree the Winchester model 70 is a good choice .

Quilly

what about a CZ 527 in 223rem or one of the other fine guns they make.i have never owned one,but i hear nothing but praise about their quality and the prices they go for.220swift might be a nice choice as well.

www.cz-usa.com

JUSTINL

Wow - some of you were up late last night.

OK - So it looks like I am on the right track with the .223 . We have votes for the Winchester model 70, the CZ 527, & the Savage model 12FV.

I'm leaning tword the Winchester with the Savage a close 2nd. Don't know much about CZ, but they look like nice guns.

I think that it'll come down to feel/comfort, accuracy & price in my final decision. I will let you all know what happens.

My next hurdle is a scope. Any input??? I've heard of folks spending 2 to 4 times the cost of the gun on a scope. My budget will not allow something like that, however, it seems reasonable to spend 1/2 to as much on the scope as I did the gun. Is that reasonable?

Appreciate your help.



&quot;It's not the kill, it's the adventure and challenge! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>&quot;

Edited by - justinl on 12/19/2002 10:29:06

Nomercy

I'm gonna throw a monkey in the wrench, and recommend the .22-250. In a .223, you're going to get good accuracy, but not as well as the .22-250, also, you're going to save money on ammunition, only problem is, the ammo you save money with is surplus stuff that you don't really want to shoot in a good rifle (it's fine for M-16 knockoffs), and it isn't very accurate, nor very clean. Look at .223's around at shops that have been used, you can always tell the ones that have shot a lot of cheap ammo, not only do they have excessive gap burn on the bolt face (more than that number of rounds should have given), but usually also have red or green crap burned into the pitting, which is really difficult to remove without further damaging the bolt face. (imperfections on the bolt face will decrease accuracy). The .22-250 was developed as a target round, and is extremely accurate in and of itself, and because of this, bullets have been manufactured that have allowed the .22-250 to become the foremost sold varminter today.

Screw the 10 ring, keep them in the zero!!!

SW Iowa Hunter

First of all I would have to disagree with the majority here when they are saying a .223. I agree that it does limited pelt damage and is enough for a coyote but it is not the best coyote gun out there.

Having hunted many many coyotes (one of my obsessions all winter) I would say that you have an effective range of about 150 yards with a .223, the last year I shot coyotes with a .223 every coyote shot continued to run after shot. I did not have any get away that year (that were hit that is <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>) but all made me nervious enough to put a second shot in them..

If you are calling in coyotes to under 100 yards or if they will not know you are there then go ahead, if you are walking ditches and timbers and will be shooting at running coyotes that are fully aware that you are hunting them then go with a 22-250 or simular cart. they have much more knock down power and allow you to stretch effective range out to 300 yards without the big hold over or extended lead problems.

As for price of shells if you are only doing alittle hunting and not shooting a ton of shells you will not notice much difference. If you are buying on gun for all the things mentioned go with something that will allow you to reach out and put them down.

&quot; Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a Dad&quot;

frizzellr

Allow me to throw another wrench into the works. Personally I would forgo the .22 cals all together and get a 243 Win. The 6mm bullet will hold together better and do less pelt damage while providing more downrange energy and less wind drift. Also, if you ever do get a chance to hunt deer with a rifle then the 243 Win is your daisy. Any .22 would be too light.

Oh, and another rifle you should really look hard at is the H&R Ultra Varmint. I have one in 243 Win as well as a Savage in 243 Win and they both shoot great. For the price thought you can't beat the H&R. It is a single-shot, but hey, one shot, one kill.

Edited by - frizzellr on 12/19/2002 12:18:10