Calling all snipers
 

I posted on here looking for a cheap starter scope for the Remington 700PSS that I'm set up to get in January, but I got a lot of responses that I should buy a different rifle completely. Now I want some proof. I want a rifle that will give .75MOA or less groups clear out to 800-1000 yrds. a military site I found quotes the 700PSS's they've had as having a .5MOA average at 800 yrds after a break in cycle with no alterations. I'm still planning on buying the PSS, but I'm leaving it to you guys to convince me that a cheaper gun can do better. I'm set to buy this PSS for $800 plus tax, and don't plan on altering it soon at least, unless need be or I get rich, so $800 is the ceiling with any gunsmithing included if I were to change my mind, which isn't going to buy much smithy work, so I'm guessing you'd have to think stock rifles that need LITTLE work. The gauntlet has been thrown down.

Screw the 10 ring, keep them in the zero!!!

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RE: Calling all snipers
 

Are you set on a new rifle??
You could get a Rem. 40x in 308 for around that price. You could also get into a 300 mag with a trued Rem. action and match grade barrel. Go to benchrest.com click on complete rifles and go to shooters corner.
They have a ton of rifles that will do what you want for around $800.
I personally love Rem. rifles. Most smiths know how to work on them and the parts are very common.
Good luck.

RE: Calling all snipers
 

Well, I wouldn't count on that PSS giving you that kinda accuracy. It might, but I had one that wouldn't. The barrel was so rough, that I couldn't do anything with it. Also the crown on the factory barrel was way out of round. The throat was excessively long, even for a factory gun. I had the barrel replaced and a few accuraizing items done and it will shoot .75MOA. But thats about it. But I had another for a short time that would get 1MOA accuracy out of box.

Buying factory guns is a risk if your looking for that super shooter out of the box. You can increase your chances of getting a shooter by getting the 40X or something out of the custom shop. They generally seem to have a smoother bore and are better made. I myself have just try to have them built by a smith I trust and has fair prices. Which can be a problem in itself.

RE: Calling all snipers
 

.75MOA @ 800yds = 6" not imposible with practice, reading the wind, and good optics.

Rem. 222

RE: Calling all snipers
 

I to have heard the claims of accuracy of the Rem 700PSS. I however am not yet convinced. However, if/when you do get this rifle and begin to test it out, I would LOVE to hear what you find to be true. What caliber do you plan to get? And, where are you goin to get it? If it does what they say it will, I will be next in line for one. lol Either way, keep me/us updated

One Shot, One Kill
Hunting is the one sport where, if you are playing right, the other team doesn't even know you're playing.

RE: Calling all snipers
 

I know a guy who bought one at a gunshow about a year ago and he got about the same results as Bigcountry did. He traded his off after fooling with it for three months or so. I think he had a 6x18 leupold sight on it. Dont hold your breath on getting .5 moa. Its possible but no more likely than getting a savage varmint gun that will do the same thing. I still say you are wasting your time and money putting a cheap sight on a rifle and hoping to get that kind of accuracy. Of course somebody else "said" that it will shoot .5moa at 800 yards, so do what you think best and find out for yourself. Good luck.

RE: Calling all snipers
 

I have shot and reworked a dozen or so Remington PSS for local law enforcement agencies. I shot all the PPS's beofre any work was done on them, with Federal Gold Medal Match 168gr MHPBT. I shot at least three 5 rounds groups at 100yds, to test the accuracy of the rifle, before I reworked it. On average, I would say all these PSS's shot constistent 1.5MOA groups at 100yds.

Then I reworked them. I took it completely apart, even reomving the barrel. I blue printed and trued the reciever, squared and trued the receiver face, squared and trued the barrel shoulder, lapped the locking lugs in, recut and recrowned the muzzle, lapped the bore, then reset the correct headspace of the chamber, installed a Tubbs extra large recoil lug, and tuned the triggers down to 2#. Then I milled out the inside of the forearm of the stock and bedded four 3/8" aluminum rods, side by side, in the forearm, milled out the receiver area slightly, installed pillars, bedded the receiver and forward of the recoil lug 3". I then opened up the forearm to a concentric .065"-.075" gap freefloat. I then reamed the scope rings for perfect scope alignement.

Then back to the range for testing. Again I fired at least three 5 rounds groups at 100yds were fired, with the same Federal Gold Medal Match 168gr MHPBT ammo. Group size were cut at least in half. On average the rifles grouped .5MOA, with a couple of the best grouping 1/4MOA and a couple of the worst grouping 3/4MOA.

My guess, based on my experiences with the PSS, in it's original configuration, is that it will group 1MOA-1.5MOA. That is not great, but it is not all that bad either. One thing that I noticed about the PSS, is that it is consistent. Groups may vary a 1/4MOA, but it is a consistant and stable shooter. Never can tell, you may have one that will be a sub-MOA shooter as is.

RE: Calling all snipers
 

One Shot, on my PSS, it seems to have aluminum bedding block in the stock. Just curious on why you need to repillar?

RE: Calling all snipers
 

bigcountry, I think he meant he ran them down the length of the forearm to stiffen it. Same thing I had to do to my Savage that came with a flimsy synthetic stock.

RE: Calling all snipers
 

moa??

RE: Calling all snipers
 

1 shot 1 kill, how many other guns have you done that have shot better out of the box, or with only $200 worth of work done. Like I said, I'm looking for the most accuracy for the money, so if I can buy another rifle, then add work done to it to get the same or better results than the PSS, for less than $800 bucks, I'll change my mind, but $800 plus tax is what I'm willing/able to give right now. What other target rifles are going to give me the same or better accuracy for the same price or less, right out of the box, OR, what rifle can I buy and build for less than that price??

BTW, Rem .222, .75 MOA at 800 yrds with a 1/4" MOA scope is going to be 1.5" off, not 6" remember, 1/4" MOA means you're adding 1/4" per 100 yrds, or 1" per 400 yrds, so 1MOA at 800 would be 2", so 2"x.75 is 1.5".

Screw the 10 ring, keep them in the zero!!!

RE: Calling all snipers
 

.300wbymag,

MOA stands for "minute of angle". Generally people use 1" at 100 as MOA, although it's actually 1.047" at 100 yards.

There are 360 degrees in a circle. Each degree is divided into 60 minutes. One degree of a circle with a radius of 100 yards would be equal to 1.047"

RE: Calling all snipers
 

NoMercy,
I wasn't refering to your scope adjustment. I was stating that a .75MOA @800yds=6". In other words .75MOA @100yds = 3/4" times that by 8 and you come up with 6". I would like to see a factory rifle shoot a 11/2" group at 800yds that would be impressive,or any rifle for that matter.

Rem. 222

RE: Calling all snipers
 

Bigcountry, the PSS has a H-S Precision stock on it with the aluminum receiver block. Next time you have it out of the stock look at the bottom of the receiver and you should see were the receiver is riding on the two fine rails of the aluminum block. These rails run on both side of the block about 3/16-1/4" above the magazine. These rails are designed for "pillar" purposes, they are not always uniform, eventhough they are cut with state of the art CNC machines.

Also, if you loosen the action screw a bit, you can actually slide the receiver back and forth slihgtly, and cant it to one side or the other. I mill these rails out and install pillars the the actions go though the center. I make these pillars for each individual rifle to eliminate any adverse torqueing of the reciever. This is the only way to ensure that there is uniform pressure throughout the reciever, with no adverse torqueing or bindng. The receiver and barrel is then bedded in Devcon, from the rear tang of the receiver to 3" past the recoil lug.

Nomercy, for the work I do for the local police departments, I give them a break, and only charge them $450 per rifle. I normaly charge $750 for work this extensive. This is because a law enforcement sniper needs the most accurate rifle possible. Very seldom do they have room for error and more than likely a human life or lives hang in the balance. The PSS is a good rifle out of the box. It can be made better with a lot of detailed work. $800 for a PSS is a good deal and I certainly will not try and talk you out of it. They will shoot 1.5MOA or better out of the box, that is all that the Army's M-24 SWS rifles are guarenteed to shoot. For about $200, the best things you can do is have the stock's receiver block rails removed and pillars installed then bedded, trigger tuned to 2#, and the locking lugs lapped in. After the lapping of the locking lugs make the headspace is checked.

In my opinion though, a heavy barreled Remington VLS or VS, will give you the same performance for a little less money. As will, the Winchester M-70 stealth varmint or the Savage M-12BVSS or M-10FPLE1A. There are several others like the Ruger M-77VTMKII, the Howa M-1500 heavy barreled, or Tikka M-595, that come to mind as well. Regardless of what you decide on, you deck it out and personalize it a little at a time. The main thing I would suggest is to get a good tatical one piece base, a good set of tactical rings, and as high of quality scope, with plenty of adjustment, as you can afford.

To build a high quality tactical rifle would cost $2,000 minimum up to $3,500.

RE: Calling all snipers
 

No Mercy,
You would be surprised of how many people asked the same question to me about what is the best accurate rifle next to the military rifle of course. I have already asked my armorers at Quantico, they say the most accurate rifle without spending any money would be the Model 700 VS Remington and/or the Model 70 Stealth Winchester. The military has spent the taxpayers money on trying to find the most accurate rifle so therefore I would believe them. Anyone can spent the $$ to build them an accurate rifle but with the money you want to spend, You could indeed build an accurate rifle but with just $4-500 and with the models mentioned above you could have an hell of an accurate rifle..just how accurate depends on the shooter,terrian, conditions and type of ammunition. My M40A3 has about $2,800 of work done to it and some of new trainees still cannot get an good MOA EVEN AT 300 METERS!
My question to you is what are you going to use it for? Benchrest, Target practice or/and varmint hunting? The type of rifle you tend to build has to suit the environment in which it is to be used for.
The amorers tell me there are a million ways to accuratize a rifle but for what purpose is it to be used for? Everyone has a favorite but it really the shooter skills that comes in play about 50% of the time.

Deersniper: The comment you made about "Hunting is the one sport if you playing right, the other team doesn't know your playing"
Just who is the other TEAM? Animals or Humans?

RE: Calling all snipers
 

Well, MSGT.GHILLIEMAN,

First off that is just a quote that I found somewhere that seems to apply well to my personal style of deer hunting (stalk). But, hey, whatever works. (laughing out loud) However, as I want to think that your name shows, you might know that it would also apply in other condtions (speaking of military/police sniper callouts).

One Shot, One Kill
Hunting is the one sport where, if you are playing right, the other team doesn't even know you're playing.

RE: Calling all snipers
 

Deer sniper,
Well thanks for your honesty, but an old legend once told us (Being new trainees at Quantico) The job selects the man, not the other way around. Being a great shot with a rifle is only 30% of the job.

Keep practicing the art of stalking, when you master the skill of sneaking up to game. Join the service and refine those skills in trying to sneak up on the enemy. Because stalking is a dying art and we could probably use you if the job fits you for the Army or Marines .

Best of luck and I may know a thing or two about this crazy thing called Sniping...not too much though..................