Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

So I finished what I would consider the break in of my new Kimber 8400 in 338 win mag.. I started shooting three and five shot groups of several different factory bullets and few handloads..

Here is a picture of a five shot group of 225 grain Triple Shock X Bullets, Federal Premium Ammo... 100 yards or just a hair under.

Looks like my first shot was high then they slung left but touching, then they came back to center but touching.. I decided to adjust the scope a little down and that's the 6th shot you see, but once again it went left..

Anyone have any suggestions or ever seen anything like this?

Oh, bbl is free floated with no contact, bbl is squeeky clean and it has 3lb trigger.

Thanks

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

I would guess its abedding problemor your scope is moving in its mounts or the scope itself is loosing it.

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

take you scope off first and make sure all the screws holding the bases down are tight, put the rings on the bases and make sure the rings are clamped on tightly the mount the scope again and be sure that the screws holing the scope in place are tight... you groups look as if the bases are slightly loose JMHO.

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

guys, since it is a new gun could it possibly be an inconsistent cheek weld.
the scope mount is most likely but could an differnt weld be the culprit

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

there's also always the flinch...

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

Using a VXIII 3.5-10x40 with Talley Bases and Rings.. I mount scopes at work several times a day and I did my own on this gun also.. I'm not doubting theremay besomething up with the scope or bases etc, just stating that it's all tight anyways...

OH and it shouldn't be flinching cuz this particular group wasa bench rest group, well... lead sled anyway.

Bedding... hmmm
I sent an Email to Kimber, might just have to send the rifle back.. maybe test a couple more loads first.. Will double check tightness on rings and bases also...

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

ah, if you have a good rest you're right, it shouldnt' be flinching. I just prop on my backpack with a jacket in it and I know that if my shots start fluctuating i can stand up and get a coke or something, just take a break, then get back to work and they'll get tighter.

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

Are the other loads shooting this bad? Start with the easiest answer then go from there. I be very suprised if it was a bedding prob in a Kimber. Flinching wouldnt make sense since it groups in one place then another. It could just be a hot barrel or the ammo.

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

Try a different load. Good luck.

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

Hmm, I don't think it's the gun. You're shooting hot loads which explains why it's flying high most of the time which isn't bad if you're zero is 200. You could try a more basic ammo like a soft point until you can get it ironed out but the only thing I can think of because you're really not shooting too badly is to practice, practice some more, then practice. Heck, it could be somethingas simple as you're not looking through the scope the same way each time?

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

A Parallax issue? Maybe.. All great idea's, I'll have to check and double check everything.. I love to practice but with this one at 50.00+++ per box of ammo it's expensive.. lol

I will check tightness of everything, get a lighter load and see how it groups..

If anyone has had an experience like this with a Kimber please let me know what you found out...

Thanks

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

I was thinking of getting the Kimber Montana in .338 for elk. I was just wondering how was the recoil. I know you used a bench but did you try a round or two off hand? I feel something physical has to be wrong with either the gun or scope/mounts. Kimbers usually shoot real well.

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

Ya I shot it off hand while "breaking in the bbl"... I mean it kicks but it was tolerable, I enjoyed shooting it..
But the Montana is a little more light than the Classic which I have.. That montana is pretty light for a 338 lol but when your hunting I promise you'll never notice it..:D

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

I'd try some different ammo. I too find it hard to believe that Kimber has a bedding issue, but I guess it's possible. I'd look elsewhere for problems first..........

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

I was looking at some Classics and a Montana today at Gander Mt. The Classics have some really nice wood. Most of my guns are wood stocks and that is what I really like. Elk hunting can be pretty rugged and hard on guns. I figured a composit / SS was the way to go but who knows. I ran the action a couple of times and it is smooooooooth as butter. Good luck on your pattern issues.

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

Not trying to say anything here but flyers like that are usually the result of operator error.....

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

Send it back to Kimber.

They make decent guns, and have fantastic service, but, this does happen every once in a while.

Send it back.

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

I posted already but I'll give you an "It happened to me."

I sold a gent a Kimber 84 in 7-08. He got it for his son for his birthday. Longstory short, gun would not shoot anything ANYTHING under 3" at 100 yards. We had our gunsmith shoot it, recheck it, so on and so forth. Nothing was consistant about it other than inconsistancy.

Sent it back to Kimber. Got the rifle back in less than 10 days, new crown, checked that, checked this, whatever, no charge and refunded shipping, and they sent back a test group under 3/4". Gunsmith checked it out, whatever was wrong, they fixed it.

That same kid, named Brandon, age 11, killed a monster 10 pointer with that gun in late October this past season. He was thrilled.

Kimber has more lemons than they should considering their rep and what you pay for it, but, they will make it right.

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

BrutalAttack, I'm not saying that I didn't have anything to do with it but I'm just saying chances are low due to bench rest style shooting that I was doing.. But I will take it and try even more carefully next time...

I checked the torque on the stock screws and they were on the money for the factory maximums and the bore is drilled center, I see no burrs on the crown and the Rings are very tight on the bases, perty darn tight on scope as well..

I will shoot some different loads and allow for bbl cooling, also will shoot with and without lead sled.. If I can't get any better than 1" then it's going back to Kimber. I really appreciate everyones input. I will have to keep you up to date..

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

I know this is not a great picture but just for those of you that were talking about how nice the wood was here is a pic of the gun. I got lucky at got great wood, but I also work for a dealer and get first pic. :D
Maybe I should start picking accurate over pretty.. lol J/K hey, a guy has to laugh or cry, right!!! It will be fine in the end.

Anyway, hard to tell much from pic but here it is anyway.

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

Beautiful wood. I love the tiger stripe look and I saw one at my cousin's gun shop that looked just like that. Funny I just love to clean and oil a gun with nice wood. When I do one of my composits....it isn't the same.

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

Make sure ALL screws are tight before you do anything else! If it is ONLY this type of ammo that's doing this, then use some other fodder!

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

When I get a group like this (two distinctive groups), I start detecting the way I am resting or holding the rifle.And its usually the problem. Especially a light rifle like that.

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

Do you shoot right handed or lefty? From what you have said I don't think it's flinching, but if you are shooting right handed then I would bet it's not flinching. I shoot right handed and if I flinch or don't squeeze off like I know I'm supposed to my bad shots go to the right. You should definitely shoot some other brands and loads, if there really is a problem with the gun then it shouldn't group anything very good. One other thought, maybe (and this might be a big maybe) the barrel was too clean. Some guns don't shoot the same with a clean barrel as the do after a few shots have been fired.

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

Something else just hit me lol after seeing what bigcountry posted, shots going to the left can be caused by the way your are putting your cheek to the stock, I have to watch out myself sometimes when shooting off the bench to make sure I'm not "leaning" into the side of the stock. Especially with a lighter weight rifle.

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

I'm right handed and shoot right handed.. Everything is tight and to proper specs..

I can count a few things out.. everything is tight and I'm not flinching..

Could it be my cheek on the stock? Parallax? Possible.
Could it be a bedding issue or a crown issue? Possible..
Ammo? Possible...
Scope internal problem? Possible..

I did shoot 210 Federal Prem. Noslers also... They grouped three shots about 1.5in. but that's all I shot of those.. Will try them again.. But that was the first three shot group I took... Will still shoot five shot groups to make sure it's consistant and Kimber says from the factory they shoot .40 in before they leave.. So I should be able to get Sub-Moa groups..

Oh and the bbl being too clean.... That's the reason you break a bbl in properly is so chances of it shooting good even with the first shot are good.. If you don't break them in right and there is fouling in the bbl then sometimes a rifle will shoot great after the first shot... Tha't what I like to get away from..

I just really appreciate everyone's input on this.. It has really given me some good ideas and a place to start looking.. Was a little frustrating cuz the same day I broke in a new Remington 700 30.06 with same mounts and scope and when I finished it was shooting half inch groups.. Then the "expensive" rifle pulls this... lol oh boy...

Anyway, the rifle will shoot and I will figure it out.. Even if it means sending it back to Kimber and letting them figure it out... lol

Will try to shoot more this weekend.....

RE: Odd Group with Kimber 338, any opinions?
 

One thingyou may have done already, but if not, I would, is to call Kimber up and ask them what sort of ammo they test these guns out with. They no doubt put them in a vice, but, I doubt they let them cool much. Wouldn't be cost effective or realistic. Call them up and ask.

And as far as break-in/cleaning goes, and this is a little OT, but just my .02. Since its impossible to exactly duplicate barrel fouling each time, and the cost of oil in the bore can be lost game (or your life for dangerous game) I do not clean my bores after final sight in for the season. All I do after each shot is to run a dry patch down the bore. I do that each time after I hunt also, no oil. I have found that it keeps things as close to the same as possible. When I shoot my groups, I shoot a fouler, dry patch, then let it cool. The shoot, dry patch, cool. And so on. A three shot group in the early fall can take me three hours, so I always bring a plinker or a book to pass the time. With a bull barrel gun, you can get SUB MOA groups quick, but with light hunting guns, those barrels heat quick. Shots one and two will be alright, maybe, but the third one will fly everytime unless its totally cooled.