npaden

I've been researching to death my new rifle purchase. I don't want to purchase a rifle that I would not enjoy shooting at the range because I think ultimately that time spent at the range willcorrelate into a successful hunt.

Growing up I shot a .270 win and always enjoyed it. To me it barely had any recoil at all and I was a pretty small kid. (I'm not small now though )

I've been trying to decide on the right caliber for an all around hunting rifle, primarily for mule deer but also with antelope and maybe even elk in mind and was trying to narrow it down to a 7mm Rem Mag or a .30-06 springfield. Talking with several people and even reading posts here, people tend to say that the 7mm Rem Mag will not be very enjoyable to shoot compared to the .30-06. I was reading on Chuck Hawk's site and it had some mathematical calculations of recoil and I was amazed so see that the .270 win and the .30-06 were almost identical when throwing 150 grain bullets. The 7mm Reg Mag was 9% more but also was assuming a 1/2 lb heavier rifle.

Caliber - bullet - fps---------------------- rifle weight - recoil
.270 win. (150gr - 2,900 fps) ----------------- 8.0 lbs --- 17.0
7mm Rem. Mag. (150gr - 3,100 fps) ---------- 8.5 lbs ---19.2
.30-06 Spfd. (150gr - 2,910 fps) -------------- 8.0 lbs --- 17.6

So 9% to me doesn't seem like alot. There is a big jump going to most of the other magnum calibers but also most are throwing more than a 150 gr bullet. The .30-06 Spfd. jumps up to a recoil of 20.3 if you go to a 180 gr bullet.

Here's the condensed table - http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

You have to be a member to see the full table with more bullets listed for each caliber. (I would be curious what the recoil rating would be with a 7mm Rem Mag throwing a 165gr bullet)

So, after this rambling do you think these are accurate? Thinking back, maybe I was shooting 130 gr bullets out of my .270 win which would have dropped the recoil down to about 15 (just guessing). The last rifle I shot very often was my fathers .30-06 and I shot an elk with it and spent some time at the range with it with 180 gr bullets which rate a 20 recoil but I remember it as being pretty mild.

I shoot a 12 ga shotgun and it's not uncommon to run a box and a half of shells through it during an evening throwing clay pigeons or when the dove are flying good and according to the recoil charts it has a recoil of 23. (actually my over/under is lighter so my recoil would be more than 23) I shot over a case of shells through it this season and never felt like it wasn't enjoyable.

12 ga., 2.75" (1 1/8oz at 1,200 fps)------------ 7.5lbs --- 23.0

Compared to the shotgun the 7mm Rem. Mag. shouldn't be bad. Is the difference because you are shooting offhand nearly 100% of the time with a shotgun vs. shooting prone or kneeling with a rifle = less ability to move to absorb some of the recoil?

So is actual recoil over rated? Is it more of the proper gun weight and recoil pad vs. the caliber?

Just trying to get some thoughts on the subject.

Thanks, Nathan

KonaBoy

Well,my opinion is that shotguns seem to be more of a push, while most rifles seem to be more of a sharp jab. (Think falling over compared to being caught with your head down - if you're a hockey player ) I also think that the fit of your gun has a lot to do with how much recoil you feel. I have a 6.5x55 Swede, and a 30-06. Since the 30-06 fits me very good, recoil to me is about the same (my mom said the same thing). Another thing is when you're shooting at game, you never feel the gun go off. You could be shooting a 458 RUM throwing a 600 grain pill at a deer, and you would probably not feel it go off. It may just be me, but I feel shooting a rifle offhand is a lot less punishing then it is prone. I usually sight in prone, then practice from field positions, and it's usually not too bad. Hopefully you can pull something worthwhile out of this rambling

seattlesetters

You probably won't notice a great deal of difference in the recoil of the 7mm Rem Mag and the .30-'06 when you're firing from a bench. The .270 will feel a bit lighter in rifles of equal weight. Almost all three are within the limits of most shooters that don't have a physical challenge...but please remember that we all feel recoil differently.

The pounding and the pain starts with the bigger 7mms and the .300 mags. Everybody is effected by such recoil, wether they will admit it or not. Some can shoot these hard-kickers better than others, but for the vast majority of us, "standard" calibers are much better for both accuracy and enjoyment...even for those who own the "do everything" magnums.

bigmatty65

You wont find much of a difference recoil wise between the 30-06 and the 7mm ... you will notice the muzzle blast a little more with the 7mmif your shoot from a covered firing point on a range.

358WINMAN

I recently printed out Chuck Hawk's Expanded Rifle Recoil Table. The 7mm Rem Mag load you mentioned is 21.7 lbs of recoil energy with a 150 grain head at 3110fps. Thats not too bad to shoot.
I had a Rem 700 BDL in 7mmRM and took it out west for mulies and antelope. had a 150 grain Core-Lokt factory ammo at the time since I was just getting into reloading and hadn't gone to loading for the 7mm.
For what its worth, here's my take on that caliber:
Very accurate, recoil is snappy not pushy, loud and ruins meat. My critters both had the off shoulder blown to smitherines. Lost an entire shoulders worth of meat from this round, very bloodshot and huge exit hole.
I've also had a Win. XTR Sporter in .30-06. Great gun, great round, nice to shoot, very easy to reload for and performs well for a knowing reloader.
Will kill anything you aim it at and does not have the explosive nature of the 7mm because it's not quite as fast.
If 7mm Rem Mag and the reliable .30-06 are my two choices, the '06 gets the nod everytime!

ejpaul1

dont sweat it. Get the rifle that has the capabilities that you need and learn to deal with recoil. Everything you mentioned isnt that bad. FUnny thing is, when your shooting at an animal, no gun has recoil! EJ

HEAD0001

First of all throw all your charts out the window. Or better yet, throw them up in the air and shoot them with a 12 gauge.

There is only one thing that matters, and that is FELT RECOIL. There are so many ways to manipulate felt recoil. I would like to discuss a few of these.

1. Stock design.
2. Stock fit.
3. Rifle weight.
4. Reloads or factory, and bullet weight.
5. If reloading, types of powder you use.
6. Recoil pads.
7. Muzzle breaks.
8. Thumbhole stock design. A thumbhole stock allows the hand to absorb alot of the recoil-keeping recoil off the shoulder.
9. Weight of trigger pull, and creep.

If you think you will be recoil sensitive, first find the caliber you think you want, and then apply the above items to reduce felt recoil. Another good thing to do is to buy a 22LR that assimilates your big game rifle, and shoot the **ll out of it. Tom.

358WINMAN

Everything Tom mentioned is right on the money.

If you spend enough time shooting and spend enough money on making the gun fit the right way and play with all kinds of loads to see what your rifle likes, and put a quality recoil pad on the gun and then shoot it as often as you can get to the range, then yes, you'll adjust to that rifle's recoil.
Here's the twist. Most guys won't spend alot of money to retro fit or have a custom riflebuilt to suit their stature. They won't make the time to go to the range at least twice a month and spend half a day there honing their skills. They'll buy ammo off the shelf in a certain size offering because their buddy said "this is the best, this what I use and I kill a deer every year". They'll shoot that round a couple of times and never say for fear of criticism " I'm not comfortable with this"and then say "I'm ready to go on my Wyoming hunt now"! The guy is secretly a bit afraid of the gun when fired, braces himself instead of relaxing and misses the mulie of a lifetime becuase the guide had him sitting, leaning on a rock aiming at a trophy buck 257 yds away!
He didn't know his rifle, he wasn't comfortable with it, hadn't shot from several positions to see how the round is when fired, and had no help or coaching from an experienced rifleman/ reloader.
So, off the shelf rifle and ammo equates to a simple, easily fired .30-06 and good luck on your upcoming hunt!
Now when a guy like Tom spells out the criteria as he did, newer shooters should read his reply twice maybe even three times before they go and buy just any rifle off the shelf. Its worth the extra money to follow Tom's advice.

skeeter 7MM

Can't add anything Tom hasn't in terms of felt recoil. I have a bummed shooting shoulder and my unbreaked 7mmRM feels less(recoil) then my 270 abolt. Why?? Fit and slightly heavier but better balanced rifle. Both wear aftermarket recoil pads &have trigger work for a light/crisp/clean break. Prior to putting a pachmayr pad on my abolt it bit and left bruising on an extended range session, the pad has taken away the discomfort levels but I still feel it more then my 7mm RM.

In comparable rifles their isn't much I have felt in terms of differenceswith felt recoil between the 06 firing a 180gr and 7mm RM 160gr. Muzzle blast the 7mm RM has more, which can result in the mind playing tricks on the body - perception that louder means more of a jab!

As far as ruining more meat well I haven't found that to be the case. I have owned2 7mm rem mags and host of other cartridges over the years, it usually boils down to2 things in this regard:
A) Shot Placement
B) Bullet Construction (which should be considered during bullet choices with regards to A. Simply meant if you plan to shoot a deer in the shoulder or at close ranges don't pick a bullet that is intended for rapid expansion/extended range, instead pick a controlled expansion bullet.)

Both are well suited for your needs. Availability/popular = they have achoices infactory ammo and components available if you reload(or ever plan to in the future) for anything you plan to hunt. As well as rifles/models available to choose from to find the best fitting rifle for you. Really no wrong decision, just go with whichever you feel is the best and will bring confidence(be that shootability, familarity, etc).

Good luck

Paul L Mohr

I am going to have to agree with Tom here. It really depends on the gun and the person shooting it. Some have more trouble with recoil than others, and gun fit has a lot to do with it.

I am a small guy, like 5'3" and 130 or so lbs. I used to be much smaller, like 95-100 lbs. I have never really had that much trouble with recoil. My first shotgun was a 20 ga H&R and I insisted on shooting 3 inch magnums out of it. I bet I weighed all of 80 lbs then. Then I got a savage 30-06 just to play with. Darn near knocked me off the bench when I pulled the trigger, but it didn't really hurt so I kept shooting it.

When on the other hand I handed my 12 ga A-5 stalker with field loads to a buddy and he shot 3 shots and handed it back to me saying it was too much recoil for him? He is around 6 foot tall and probably over 200 lbs. I love that gun and recoil is minimal to me. I told him he should shoot our other buddies 3 1/2 inch 870 turkey gun.

So it is pretty subjective to the person shooting. Felt recoil is different for every person.

And gun design and fit plays a huge roll in it as well. A good example of that would be my savage 30-06 110E. I didn't have any trouble shooting it really. Sure it threw me around when I shot it, but it didn't feel that bad. I went out one year and got my step father a remington pump in 30-06. Very pretty gun, but OH MY GOD! did that thing kick!![][:@]. Probably one of the hardest kicking guns I have ever shot. Same bullets I was shooting out of my savage but the felt recoil was brutal, I thought my teeth were going to fall out after shooting it.

My buddies 870 turkey gun was simular, the first time I shot it I hated it, but the gun didn't fit me, it was too long and I couldn't hold it properly. I did use it hunting one year though and I didn't even notice the recoil when hunting, which is usually the case.

As far as target shooting or practicing I wouldn't let reciol be a deciding factor in getting a rifle. There are many things you can do to tame it. Like rests that soak up recoil, better recoil pads, and vests or slip on pads made for bench shooting. PAST makes a very good shoulder pad that slips on over your clothing. There is also a nice rest called a Lead Sled I believe that takes a lot of recoil out of the shot. I think they are expensive though.

Good luck,
Paul