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Old 11-27-2006, 04:15 PM
Boone & Crockett
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Default RE: Bullistics

Compare the kinetic energy of a car traveling 25 mph to one traveling at 30 mph. Then compare the percentage of pedestrians killed by each after a collision, as well as the level of physical trauma.

I recommend you take a physics course.
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Old 11-27-2006, 05:23 PM
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Default RE: Bullistics

KE is simply the measurement of energy. The term itself won't kill anything. A bullet can kill without any blood loss. Its a combination of things that do the job. Velocity, frontal area, ME and shock all contribute. Part of the problem is getting lost in the terms. Shock forcing blood back to the heart or brain is part of it. I saw some good testing that showed that when a bullet strikes when the heart valve is open, death comes almost insatntly. To fast to be just blood loss. Wide Meplases send shock waves ahead of the bullet creating a larger wound channel. I am no expert but I have studied this quite a bit. Opinions very and hard proof is hard to come by. However with an open mind, some things start to make sense.
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Old 11-27-2006, 08:06 PM
Nontypical Buck
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Default RE: Bullistics

I think that ballistic's tables can kill deer. But personally, I can't throw them hard enough.
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Old 11-27-2006, 08:18 PM
Nontypical Buck
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Default RE: Bullistics

I always worked on the "Uhhh, shoot animal, animal die," theory. Ballistics tables are great for debate, that's about it.
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Old 11-27-2006, 10:57 PM
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Default RE: Bullistics

That "shockwave" of blood isn't really a shockwave at all. Think about punching some schmoe in the face. When he gets a black eye, its because the blood vessels under his skin have burst. A result of trauma. What you see there, is the result of trauma. Which I guess could be interpreted as a shockwave. However, I don't think that game animals die of severe bruising (unless it is to the brain, a gent on another forum I frequent just killed a nice buck with a "part the hair" shot).

I have never really been a fan of bullet energy, velocities or any of that sort. I have been a fan of accuracy, shootability, and usefulness. I will take a "less powerful" rifle that I can drive tacks with over a super mag with all sorts of numbers declaring how deadly it is, any day of the week.
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Old 11-28-2006, 03:45 AM
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Default RE: Bullistics

I don't agree with most of this post. Kinetic energy and penetration mean a lot in the ballistics world.How would oneexplain howpolice officers have died after beingshot intheir bullet proof vest even though the bullet did not penetrate? The force which a bullet hits an objectcan do considerable damage even if it does not penetrate.

It also looks like this article was written for the self defense crowd. I have little doubt that most of these cases are from small caliber pistols or had much to do with the dress of the subjects. I doubt that there are several people that are walking around with 22, 25, 32 and possibly 38caliber lead in them.There are too manyvariables when youtry to study ballistics on humans.

There are also datails in the article that are left out of the examples.The major makeup of animals including humans is water. I don't believe that the Hydrostatic Shock sections takes into account that you areessentially displacing fluid in a closed container of a fixed size. Try shooting a capped two liter of Coke or agallon of water then shoot one thatis empty.You will see a huge difference.
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Old 11-28-2006, 03:47 AM
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Default RE: Bullistics

Physics it, learn it, live it!!!
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Old 11-28-2006, 05:21 AM
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Default RE: Bullistics

Yea, the whole post was pretty well bull. Anybody that thinks hydrostatic shock is a myth needs to go back to school, and get more experience with different calibers.
Old 11-28-2006, 07:57 AM
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Default RE: Bullistics

It is a shame B.S. like that gets put out in the world. Plain and simple there is a difference. For the easy to understand, first. Look at ballistic gelatin. When a bullet is fired into it, it leaves a wound channel. That wound channel, in an animal, although possibly not causing blood loss, can disrupt organ function causing death. The same thing can happen to start or stop a human heart. Using a precordial thump, from outside a closed body cavity, a person can recieve a blow to the chest that can stop a heart. FACT. Now where is the blood loss??? There is none, therefore Hemorragic shock is not the C.o D. Now fire a gun into a chest cavity of a deer and the shock wave, while not necessarily causing any blood loss from the heart can stop the heart instantly, causing death before hemorragic shock can cause death.

So please, tell it to someone who might not know the facts and know better.

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Old 11-28-2006, 08:02 AM
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Default RE: Bullistics

Thats my theory Ridge runner , I am just a hunter I know what works in the field, I use that to determine what works and what doesn't. I cant explain all the shock wave ,hydro static shock, or any of the long words associated with this thread. I do know is my .300 win mag, .270wsm, 45/70,6.5x284 , .220 swift,.243win and .44 mag all make a hole and the animal on the recieving end dies.
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