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My gun for Africa....
I just found this gun. I don't know if I can accurately shoot a 416 or bigger,so this looks like my best option.
Any opinions on what other caliber/gun I should get? Price is a major factor hence no spiffy $12,000 British double. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=58719751[/align][/align][/align] |
RE: My gun for Africa....
I thought that you had to have a gun bigger than .400 to hunt in Africa? I dont know thats just what Ive heard?
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RE: My gun for Africa....
Some areas are .375 min. As for that round, I would personally opt for the H&H magnum round. If your ammo was to get seperrated from you during the trip, 375 Ultra mag will be next to impossible to find. But the H&H on the other hand will be pretty easy to locate. Just a thought, but definitely something to consider.
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RE: My gun for Africa....
Right gun just go with it in .375 H&H as the H&H ammo is easier to find.
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RE: My gun for Africa....
Just go with a Marlin 1895 and 550 gr piledrivers, if I were going thats what I'd use, and take a 338 win for a light rifle. But seriously I like your choice. You may try shipping some spare ammo ahead just to be safe, as I'm sure you'll have some corospundence with your outfitter before time to leave!
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RE: My gun for Africa....
CZ makes a good and reasonable big bore. I believe it can be had in 375 H and H and 416, possibly in 458 win as well. 375 is the classic african caliber. Makes a good elk rifle too. Most but not all african hunters consider the 375 a great all around african rifle. May elephants have been taken with this caliber. But some consider it marginal for elephant. The 416 lott is probably the best all around african caliber. But if you are not going for elephant the 375 would be great
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RE: My gun for Africa....
Yeah I'm not interested in elephants. I didn't consider the availability of .375 Rem Ultra Mag. I do like it better that the H&H because of performance but that would suck if I lost my ammo. I'll probably have to go with a .416 but I'd have to shoot one first to see if I can still be accurate with it.
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RE: My gun for Africa....
ORIGINAL: okcmco CZ makes a good and reasonable big bore. I believe it can be had in 375 H and H and 416, possibly in 458 win as well. 375 is the classic african caliber. Makes a good elk rifle too. Most but not all african hunters consider the 375 a great all around african rifle. May elephants have been taken with this caliber. But some consider it marginal for elephant. The 416 lott is probably the best all around african caliber. But if you are not going for elephant the 375 would be great |
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RE: My gun for Africa....
ORIGINAL: cma3366a As I said, nobody is a bigger remington 700 fan than myself, they are the best production deer, varmin tand target rifle IMO. But a DGR they are NOT. Reasons. Brazed bolt handle, bad extractor system (for dg), and a not so great ejector system (for dg). The last thing I would want chasing DG on another continent, in much warmer temps (and in turn, higher pressures), with big bore, high pressure loadings is a rifle that is not 100% to extract and eject, and one whose bolt hand might just come off if I yank on it to extract that sticky case.Africa is the onearena where the Mauser wins, every time, hands down. Dont take my word for it, www.accuratereloading.com Yeah I agree the extractor on the 700 isn't the strongest. They do have a 798 that has a Mauser type claw extractor. They areconsiderably more exspensive though. |
RE: My gun for Africa....
ORIGINAL: BrutalAttack I just found this gun. I don't know if I can accurately shoot a 416 or bigger,so this looks like my best option. Any opinions on what other caliber/gun I should get? Price is a major factor hence no spiffy $12,000 British double. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=58719751 [/align] Take a gun your confidence is with...a 22 automatic with a belt feed...Do it then...A 30-06 steel jacket...it will drop an elephant with one shot...If your not confident in your arsinol,don't go hunting....steel jacket bullets..They used these in wars,The reason why, is it didn't kill the person and it took 2 to carry out a wounded,3 eliminated...Use a steel jacket in the 06..it will drop any animal alive...no shrap,no mushroom,straight thru... [/align] [/align] |
RE: My gun for Africa....
Yeah I agree the extractor on the 700 isn't the strongest. They do have a 798 that has a Mauser type claw extractor. They areconsiderably more exspensive though. http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_798_specs.asp http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_XCR_specs.asp |
RE: My gun for Africa....
glad i'm not the only one to notice
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RE: My gun for Africa....
Are you going to be shooting Plains Game or Dangerous Game? The Ideal calibers for Africa are .375 H&H or 9.3X62!
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RE: My gun for Africa....
ORIGINAL: stubblejumper Yeah I agree the extractor on the 700 isn't the strongest. They do have a 798 that has a Mauser type claw extractor. They areconsiderably more exspensive though. http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_798_specs.asp http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_XCR_specs.asp My dealer prices aren't that much different. Around $720 for the XCR. Have to check on the 798. I hope for my sake it's cheaper. Better get your licks in when you can stubble...it doesn't happen often. ;) |
RE: My gun for Africa....
ORIGINAL: smokeman Take a gun your confidence is with...a 22 automatic with a belt feed...Do it then...A 30-06 steel jacket...it will drop an elephant with one shot...If your not confident in your arsinol,don't go hunting....steel jacket bullets..They used these in wars,The reason why, is it didn't kill the person and it took 2 to carry out a wounded,3 eliminated...Use a steel jacket in the 06..it will drop any animal alive...no shrap,no mushroom,straight thru... [/align] |
RE: My gun for Africa....
ORIGINAL: Rebel Hog Are you going to be shooting Plains Game or Dangerous Game? The Ideal calibers for Africa are .375 H&H or 9.3X62! i'm not sure where I'll be going or what I'll be doing. I can tell you I have no desire to shoot an elephant but proably anything else. |
RE: My gun for Africa....
Brutal,
I have never hunted africa and probaly never will.I do how ever have the guns,If I was going to. If I could only take just one it would be the .416 Rem mag.Shoots flat enough for plains game and carries enough energy for the biggest of beasts.The recoil is not as much as one would think and probaly be on par with the .375 RUM. You wouldn't be to under guned with the 375 H&H or the 458 Lott(give you the option of shooting 458 win mag in a pinch). Good luck BBJ |
RE: My gun for Africa....
ORIGINAL: BareBack Jack Brutal, I have never hunted africa and probaly never will.I do how ever have the guns,If I was going to. If I could only take just one it would be the .416 Rem mag.Shoots flat enough for plains game and carries enough energy for the biggest of beasts.The recoil is not as much as one would think and probaly be on par with the .375 RUM. You wouldn't be to under guned with the 375 H&H or the 458 Lott(give you the option of shooting 458 win mag in a pinch). Good luck BBJ |
RE: My gun for Africa....
My books say that the Remington 798 is imported from Zastava beginning 2006. ANyone know what this means? Good news? Bad news? Indifferent?
I'm assuming that's a subcontractor of some kind. |
RE: My gun for Africa....
Zastava is a Serbian company that used to produce the same rifles under the Charles Daly name.They now deal with Remington instead.
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RE: My gun for Africa....
ORIGINAL: stubblejumper Zastava is a Serbian company that used to produce the same rifles under the Charles Daly name.They now deal with Remington instead. |
RE: My gun for Africa....
Are they quality? I'm assuming so since it's Remington. Remember the Yugo car?It was made by Zastava.:D:D:D |
RE: My gun for Africa....
ORIGINAL: stubblejumper Are they quality? I'm assuming so since it's Remington. Remember the Yugo car?It was made by Zastava.:D:D:D |
RE: My gun for Africa....
Just a thought...in it's current state, the XCR 700 is 7.5#, the .375RUM pumps out around 5000ft.lbs. of muzzle energy. Yeah, that thing WILL kick like a mule.
I shoot Ruger M77's in .458Lott and .416 Rigby, as well as a CZ550 .416Rigby my LIGHTEST was 9.5# before adding a butt pad, detachable scope mounts and scope, aluminum bedding block,and extra weight in the forend and buttstock. The CZ has a compensator and it's a pleasure to shoot for what it is, but you'd be pretty d@mn tough to sit down and put a box through it (not that you ever would anyway). Plus, like others have mentioned, you're not going to be able to find RUM ammo over there, so on the good chance that you get separated from your ammo in transit, you'll likely want to have a more commonly used cartridge. |
RE: My gun for Africa....
As I said, nobody is a bigger remington 700 fan than myself, they are the best production deer, varmin tand target rifle IMO. But a DGR they are NOT. Reasons. Brazed bolt handle, bad extractor system (for dg), and a not so great ejector system (for dg). The last thing I would want chasing DG on another continent, in much warmer temps (and in turn, higher pressures), with big bore, high pressure loadings is a rifle that is not 100% to extract and eject, and one whose bolt hand might just come off if I yank on it to extract that sticky case.Africa is the onearena where the Mauser wins, every time, hands down. Dont take my word for it, www.accuratereloading.com I bought my first 700 Rem. in about 1971 and i'm still shooting it... I've had/have many more that i've hunted with all over the U.S. and Canada. None of the extractors in any of my Rem. 700's have had even one seconds problem..... None of them can tell if your hunting DG or a squirell, so if they last 30 years squirell hunting they will last 30 years hunting DG!! In the 25 years i lived and hunted in Alaska, i depended on a 700 Rem. action for my DG rifle even when i was going in the alder thickets after a wounded brown bear.... I have 100% faith in my 700 as a DG rifle, and the extractor/bolt "so called" problem is a bunch of BS!!! Yes an occasional rifle will have a problem, but i would NOT go to a gunshop and buy ANY brand of firearm, and head out in the field with it to hunt DG or any other animial, UNTILL that firearm shows me it's reliable "at the range" durning "many hours" of practice. Only then will it go to the field with me, "especially" as a DG gun.... My DG rifle still today works perfectly, and i wouldn't be afraid to head to Africa with it tomorrow! DM |
RE: My gun for Africa....
It depends on what you are planing on shooting if you are going for any of the big 5 i would use .375 H&H like said before you can find this ammo any where. if you are hunting smaller planes game i would take your deer rifle i have seen every thing from a 75 lb spring buck to 1500lb eland taken with a 7MM so you dont have to have any huge calibers. Take a gun that you can shoot accuratly thats most important.
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RE: My gun for Africa....
A few of my pheasant hunters go to Africa every year on a Safari before coming to my place to hunt. They shoot all plains game normally, and they all shoot 7mm Rem Mags or 300 RUMs. They've never had a problem with wounding/losing any animals with those calibers.
If you are going to be hunting the dangerous stuff, I'd go for a 375 H&H myself. I've shot one a number of times and it was surprisingly easy on my shoulder. I'd compare the recoil to a 45/70 with more of a jolt than a slower push. The gun I shot in 375 was a Ruger #1. |
RE: My gun for Africa....
ORIGINAL: cma3366a You wont find a bigger remington fan than me, but if you are honestly looking for something to use of african game, You'd be wise to go with a CRF action. .375 is the legal minumum in most african countries for DG,regardless you'd be wise to use that or more. The current hot gun for african hunting is the CZ-550 Safari Magnum, either the euro or american version. If it were my decision I'd go with the 458lott, as you can use 458win in a pinch, and it hits like a buick, but any of the calibers offered in the CZ Safari will do the trick. |
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RE: My gun for Africa....
DM, why is it that when you have a custom rifle built on a 700, one of the first things the gunsmith wants to do is install a Sako extractor? |
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RE: My gun for Africa....
There are gunsmiths that believe that cutting away part of the bolt to install the sako extractor weakens it,so they won't do it.This topic has been discussed more than once at theaccurate reloading forums and at the 24hr campfire forums.
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RE: My gun for Africa....
I have heard this argument about CR feed and braised on bolt handles many times. I my 30 plus years of shooting and reloading I've saw bolts jamed so tight by dummies who think the max loads are for starters in manuals, that a mallet was needed to drive open the bolt. I have never saw a bolt handle broken off, nor have I ever seen a stuck case left in the chamber after the bolt was open! I'm not saying this cannot or doesn't happen but I've never witnessed such. I still think that anyone who is planning an African saffari should be able to pre ship enough ammo to the PH whome they are going to hunt with, to make safe most any chambering they would choose. This sounds like a bunch of friendly bickering to me as opposed to trying to solve a real problem:eek:
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RE: My gun for Africa....
DM, why is it that when you have a custom rifle built on a 700, one of the first things the gunsmith wants to do is install a Sako extractor?  The extractor BS mostly comes from the "floating extractor design" that the 721's and 22's had. They were more prone to problems. That was taken care of in the 700's... BUT, they "look" very much the same. In the late 70's i had heard all the BS, and decided to do a "unscientific" test of my own and had a bolt converted to the above. I tested it along with a Mod 70 (old and new), 700 factory and converted, and a Ruger 77.... All i was looking for was "if" i could make any of the bolts pull off a case, and if one was better than the other.... In the end i could NOT make any of the extractors pull off a case with my hand by pulling on the bolt, or beating on the bolt with my bare hand. (all of these test was with an 06 "parent" case) I then took a hammer handle and beat on the bolt handles to see what would happen. Every gun could be beat untill the bolt "lifted" and "opened". "If" beat on enough, every one of them would pull the rim off the case to some degree with the 700 stock extractor doing as good as or better than the rest. NONE of the extractors were broken in my test, and the Rem. pulled off more rim that the new mod 70.... It was harder to pullthe Rem. off a case than it wasthe Ruger.... The Ruger would ruin LESS of the case rim than the Rem.... The Sako pulled off the case easier than the Rem. too, and i came to the conclusion it weakened the bolt and was not a conversion i'd want on my rifle. Anyway, i'm sure some of you will discount my test, but for me it answered all of my questions, and put to rest all of my fears of a Rem. 700 extractor!! A new "custom" brown bear rifle followed witha 700 Rem. action andstock extractor! As for breaking a bolt handle off a 700.... I've seen it happen 3 or 4 times over the years. In EVERY case it was broken off when a hammer, or hammer handlewas used to beat the $hit out of the bolt handle, and i mean beat it! There's no way i couldbreak one off useing my bare hands!! BTW, many of my test were done more than once to my satisfaction.... DM |
RE: My gun for Africa....
DM. I could not agree more.
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RE: My gun for Africa....
I like the CZ line. Iwould get a .416 Rigby or .458. HCH
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RE: My gun for Africa....
For a critical application I'll take the non-standard extractor config. That said, I thinkI've jacked thisthread far enough, you're deadset on using factory standard rem 700's for dangerous game, And I think there are better options available. I've spent more than a few hours crawling around in the alders looking for browns with my 700 Rem.in my hands, so for me, it's proven itself many times over the years... Happy hunting with what ever you prefer to use! DM |
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