Shotgun Slug vs. Rifle
07-17-2006, 08:49 AM
#12
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: WC FL
Posts: 26,323
RE: Shotgun Slug vs. Rifle
It depends where I would be hunting. If I'm hunting in thick swamps or heavy cover and my shots are going to be 20-25 yds, I use Sabots. If my shots are going to be 75yds or more, I use a rifle.
07-17-2006, 03:13 PM
#13
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: Shotgun Slug vs. Rifle
I have killed and seen deer killed with both. A centerfire rifle is the more effective weapon in my opinion. Higher velocities and better designed bullets give you better BC's and transfer more energy causing better wound channels.
I live in a shotgun only area so I use a slug gun or an inline muzzle loader. The newer saboted shotgun slugs are pretty much just an inline ML with smokless powder and a cartridge. They pretty much use the same pistol XTP type bullets driven at higher velocities. They work and they work well out to 100 yards and maybe beyond, but not as well a centerfire rifle with the right bullet.
If I had the choice I would use a centerfire no questions. I would use a .243 over the slug gun if it were legal where I lived.
Just my opinions anyway.
Paul
I live in a shotgun only area so I use a slug gun or an inline muzzle loader. The newer saboted shotgun slugs are pretty much just an inline ML with smokless powder and a cartridge. They pretty much use the same pistol XTP type bullets driven at higher velocities. They work and they work well out to 100 yards and maybe beyond, but not as well a centerfire rifle with the right bullet.
If I had the choice I would use a centerfire no questions. I would use a .243 over the slug gun if it were legal where I lived.
Just my opinions anyway.
Paul
07-17-2006, 08:14 PM
#14
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 294
RE: Shotgun Slug vs. Rifle
First off I would like to say that for my first 7 years of huntingI was not fortunate enough to hunt in the northern hunting zones of New York state, therefore requiring me to use a shotgun to harvest deer. For the first five of those years I used regular old rifled slugs (Winchester super x) I took them to the range and sighted them in at 114 yds.and 15 shots punched out a hole a bit smaller than a tennis ball. Since then I have used winchester's partition golds. In the first 7 years I harvested 11 deer, and in thefollowing 4 years I harvested 7 more deer. (All with slugs).And I can honestly say, that out of all 18 of those deer I have never seen one of them run more than 55 yards and only 1 out of the 18 deer required more than one slug to kill it.
However, in the last 3 years I have been fortunate to be able to hunt northern zone. I have used my 30-06 all 3 years and have killed 4 deer with that gun. I could not believehow much more effective the rifle was at ( STOPPING) the deer immediately. 3 of those deer didn't even move after they were hit. and the 4th deer only went about 7 steps and collapsed.
I also would like to add that out of the total22deer that I have shot with both shotgun and rifle, only one of the 22 deer where shot at over 100 yds. And I didn't use my rifle either. I used winchester supreme partition golds and they smacked a nice 5 pt. at 143 yds. He only went about 26 paces before he died.
I am a firm believer in shot placementover velocities and foot pounds of energy. Only an idiot would claim that a shotgun would not kill a whitetail effectively. Because I belive they have stood the test of time. And with that being said, the "so - called" weaker cartridges like the 243, 250 savage,30-30, 38-40, 38-55and 257 roberts have also proved thier rankings over time on their ability to harvestwhitetail deer. (just to name a few.)
You dont need a cannon or anti tank rocket to kill a whitetail deer.( especially inside 100 yards) You just need to hit em where it counts.
I believe that both a slug gun and a rifle will kill deer effectively within their own abilities. If you stay within a good range with the slug, you should be able to kill any whitetail out there (provided you hit em right)
However, In my personal opinion, and from what I have personally experienced,I would choose a good rifle over the shotgun as well. I truly believe they(can be) more accurate than the slug. (just because a gun is only as accurate as its shooter) And for # 2 I know thata good rifle brings the energy. I dont want to track or drag a deer any further than I have to. If I shoot and I see the deer fall immediately (its fine with me)
If your freind will be hunting within 100 yards (he could use the shotgun) if he wants. But I really think he would appreciate the effectiveness and light recoils of a good 30-30, 243, or even a 7mm-08. He doesn't need a magnum for inside 100 yards and his shoulder shouldn't have to pay the price for it either.
I hope your freind get what he wants and is comfortable shooting with. (That is the most important thing) ButI would discuss some nice mild rifles with him, I think he will thank you in the long run.
However, in the last 3 years I have been fortunate to be able to hunt northern zone. I have used my 30-06 all 3 years and have killed 4 deer with that gun. I could not believehow much more effective the rifle was at ( STOPPING) the deer immediately. 3 of those deer didn't even move after they were hit. and the 4th deer only went about 7 steps and collapsed.
I also would like to add that out of the total22deer that I have shot with both shotgun and rifle, only one of the 22 deer where shot at over 100 yds. And I didn't use my rifle either. I used winchester supreme partition golds and they smacked a nice 5 pt. at 143 yds. He only went about 26 paces before he died.
I am a firm believer in shot placementover velocities and foot pounds of energy. Only an idiot would claim that a shotgun would not kill a whitetail effectively. Because I belive they have stood the test of time. And with that being said, the "so - called" weaker cartridges like the 243, 250 savage,30-30, 38-40, 38-55and 257 roberts have also proved thier rankings over time on their ability to harvestwhitetail deer. (just to name a few.)
You dont need a cannon or anti tank rocket to kill a whitetail deer.( especially inside 100 yards) You just need to hit em where it counts.
I believe that both a slug gun and a rifle will kill deer effectively within their own abilities. If you stay within a good range with the slug, you should be able to kill any whitetail out there (provided you hit em right)
However, In my personal opinion, and from what I have personally experienced,I would choose a good rifle over the shotgun as well. I truly believe they(can be) more accurate than the slug. (just because a gun is only as accurate as its shooter) And for # 2 I know thata good rifle brings the energy. I dont want to track or drag a deer any further than I have to. If I shoot and I see the deer fall immediately (its fine with me)
If your freind will be hunting within 100 yards (he could use the shotgun) if he wants. But I really think he would appreciate the effectiveness and light recoils of a good 30-30, 243, or even a 7mm-08. He doesn't need a magnum for inside 100 yards and his shoulder shouldn't have to pay the price for it either.
I hope your freind get what he wants and is comfortable shooting with. (That is the most important thing) ButI would discuss some nice mild rifles with him, I think he will thank you in the long run.
07-17-2006, 10:00 PM
#15
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northeast PA
Posts: 633
RE: Shotgun Slug vs. Rifle
Actually I HAVE fired all of those and many other calibers, in all different weight firearms, at times on the same day, and a slug gun does not have a noticabley greater recoil than a equivelant rifle,but the big bruser rifles do kick worse than a dcent dedicated slug gun.
I am comparing ammo prices as I see them in the stores. Yes you can buy cheaper rifle ammo, you can also buy 5 packs of cheap slugs for $2 - $2.50 a box, and I can reload for my rifles OR for a shotgun/slug gun and either will be significantly less than store bought.
As far as kill power, you STILL make me laugh. And as far as how slugs don't do anything except make them bleed a little like a arrow hit, guess you need practice hitting them right. As far as rifles somehow being different than slugs..... is there some kind of magic that happens that makes the bullet different just because it came out of a shotgun. A slug IS a bullet, just a large caliber, slow moving one. There are plenty of rifles that have no real difference to a "slug gun" but since they are rifles they must be 100x better bywhat seems to be yourresoning. Just as you wouldn't use a 500 nitro on a deer, or a 44mag to shoot 100+yards, you need to match the weapon to the situation.
As alluded to before, shot placement does more for dropdown power than just picking a "better" caliber. I have seen deer run 50 yardsafter a shot that lefttheir heart and a good portion of lung turned tosoup andI have seen deer collapse immediately when hit by a .223.
I never said that I wouldn't take a rifle over a slug if given the choice, just that they are FAR from the terrible option you seemed to make them.
I am comparing ammo prices as I see them in the stores. Yes you can buy cheaper rifle ammo, you can also buy 5 packs of cheap slugs for $2 - $2.50 a box, and I can reload for my rifles OR for a shotgun/slug gun and either will be significantly less than store bought.
As far as kill power, you STILL make me laugh. And as far as how slugs don't do anything except make them bleed a little like a arrow hit, guess you need practice hitting them right. As far as rifles somehow being different than slugs..... is there some kind of magic that happens that makes the bullet different just because it came out of a shotgun. A slug IS a bullet, just a large caliber, slow moving one. There are plenty of rifles that have no real difference to a "slug gun" but since they are rifles they must be 100x better bywhat seems to be yourresoning. Just as you wouldn't use a 500 nitro on a deer, or a 44mag to shoot 100+yards, you need to match the weapon to the situation.
As alluded to before, shot placement does more for dropdown power than just picking a "better" caliber. I have seen deer run 50 yardsafter a shot that lefttheir heart and a good portion of lung turned tosoup andI have seen deer collapse immediately when hit by a .223.
I never said that I wouldn't take a rifle over a slug if given the choice, just that they are FAR from the terrible option you seemed to make them.
07-17-2006, 10:27 PM
#16
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: fort mcmurray alberta canada
Posts: 5,667
RE: Shotgun Slug vs. Rifle
Trajectories are no worse than any other projectile of similar weight and velocity
07-17-2006, 10:51 PM
#18
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northeast PA
Posts: 633
RE: Shotgun Slug vs. Rifle
You kind of answered your own question, you said "how many high powered rifles".
And now there are some very comprible bullet/sabot rounds to use in them instead of the old Fostner slugs. Many of the newer rounds use the exact same bullet as you would find for a muzzleloader or even a large caliber standard rifle so those have comprable BCs. Yes, a "lunker" slug does have a lower BC so it looses velocity at a faster rate, which also gives it a larger drop at a given distance, but you (not specifically you, but in general) cannot compare a magnum or high powered rifle to it any more than you can compare one to a low power loadused inanother standard rifle.
It's like comparing a 50-70 to a 7mm Weatherby Mag to a 500 S&W, especially when using completely different platforms to fire them.They are each in their own class and do not work the same in all situations, but each has it's uses and each has it's advantages over the others.
And now there are some very comprible bullet/sabot rounds to use in them instead of the old Fostner slugs. Many of the newer rounds use the exact same bullet as you would find for a muzzleloader or even a large caliber standard rifle so those have comprable BCs. Yes, a "lunker" slug does have a lower BC so it looses velocity at a faster rate, which also gives it a larger drop at a given distance, but you (not specifically you, but in general) cannot compare a magnum or high powered rifle to it any more than you can compare one to a low power loadused inanother standard rifle.
It's like comparing a 50-70 to a 7mm Weatherby Mag to a 500 S&W, especially when using completely different platforms to fire them.They are each in their own class and do not work the same in all situations, but each has it's uses and each has it's advantages over the others.
07-17-2006, 11:26 PM
#19
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: fort mcmurray alberta canada
Posts: 5,667
RE: Shotgun Slug vs. Rifle
"how many high powered rifles".
07-18-2006, 03:21 PM
#20
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: Shotgun Slug vs. Rifle
Centerfire bullets have much better designs and BC's than most anything you will shoot out of a shotgun. I have done a lot of research on ballistics and wound channel characteristics and the two key things that cause damage are velocity and bullet design. You need the right bullet for the right job for it to be effective. Centerfire rifles with controled expansion bullets cause much more dissruption to tissue than a shotgun slug or even the newer XTP style bullets do. A varmint type bullet that has a rapid expansion is even more dissruptive, but lacks penitration for most big game. Probably would work ok on medium sized deer though I bet.
And broad head tipped arrows make a deer bleed A LOT, more so than a bullet does because the cuts are cleaner and it takes longer for them to clot. The more trauma to the tissue the faster it will clot. I will agree though, arrows kill in a different way than bullets do. However if you are going for a lung shot the end result is the same. The deer basically chokes to death because the lungs don't work any more. The amount of time to death is pretty much the same from bleeding out or not being able to breath since the end effect is the same, lack of oxygen to the brain. Unless you only take out one lung, then those suckers can run a long ways!
And using a high powered rifle does not insure the deer will drop on the spot either. I can link you to study for that if you want. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. However the percentages go up with a centerfire, especially at longer ranges. It has more to do with shock to the central nervous system they think. No one really knows for sure why some deer drop on the spot, and others run like the wind even when hit in the same place with the same rifle.
Last year I shot a deer at 20 yards with a 600 grn slug from a 3 inch gold magnum. I took out the lungs and the top of the heart. It still ran about 90 yards before dropping. It had a hole about the size of a quarter all the way thru it.
Paul
And broad head tipped arrows make a deer bleed A LOT, more so than a bullet does because the cuts are cleaner and it takes longer for them to clot. The more trauma to the tissue the faster it will clot. I will agree though, arrows kill in a different way than bullets do. However if you are going for a lung shot the end result is the same. The deer basically chokes to death because the lungs don't work any more. The amount of time to death is pretty much the same from bleeding out or not being able to breath since the end effect is the same, lack of oxygen to the brain. Unless you only take out one lung, then those suckers can run a long ways!
And using a high powered rifle does not insure the deer will drop on the spot either. I can link you to study for that if you want. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. However the percentages go up with a centerfire, especially at longer ranges. It has more to do with shock to the central nervous system they think. No one really knows for sure why some deer drop on the spot, and others run like the wind even when hit in the same place with the same rifle.
Last year I shot a deer at 20 yards with a 600 grn slug from a 3 inch gold magnum. I took out the lungs and the top of the heart. It still ran about 90 yards before dropping. It had a hole about the size of a quarter all the way thru it.
Paul