RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

That's interesting. Do you know whether it is related to the rate at which the powder burns?

I guess I thought that the effect of Isaac Newton's law stating that "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction" meant that if you are pushing a 240 grain bullet at 1100 fps from two different loads, the recoil should be about the same regardless of the weight of the powder charge.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

Part of it is impulse or acceleration in the barrel, but most of it is due to it actually becomes part of the load. So 50gr of powder adds that weight coming out of the barrel compared to 25gr. The powders weight coming out is not neglible and doesn't just disappear. Its still has mass, no matter if its a gas or solid. And that mass adds to the load coming out of the barrel muzzle.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

There is nothing exact about the Hawks recoil tables. It is only a guide line or method for rough comparing different calibers. Felt recoil can only be judged by the person who puts the gun to their shoulder and pulls the trigger.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

IMHO, normal healthy people shooting normal well fitting rifles will find their "felt recoil" experience toparallel the "actual recoil"(as calculated) IF both actual and felt judgmentsaddress both "how hard" and "how fast"--- not just this one is "nice" and that one is "too much".

Using the American "school of hard knocks" methodology, some factors which may cause folks to "mis-judge" one cartridge against another has a lot to do with things other than the "cartridge":
** Poor technique which varies widely from instance to instance
**Not understanding the importance of stock fit
** Not paying attention to or taking into account rifle weights
** Not taking into account their choice of bullet weight and loading

and last but not least....
** Pre-indoctrination as to what will be "good" and what will be "bad"

Beyond that,IMO if it is true that"it all depends on the individual"thena discussion of felt recoil is not possible and really meaningless.I don't think so;one can always focus on the outlyers torender an idea useless. However, take a thousand shooters with no physical or mental disabilities, educate them as to recoil components andrecoil management, and have them shoot 5 rifles spanning the gambit of recoil and I'm betting their reports will statisticallylparallel the actual recoil model fairly closely (even though there were, say, 61 out of that 1000who were "all over the board" or so sensitive that 'everything but the 243' was unimaginably horrible).

I have found the recoil calculator to be an excellent guideas to what to expect from a more powerful cartridge as you move up. However, I temper those numbers by the other variables discussed above.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

Are you trying to tell me something or what? I thought we already been down this road James?

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

:D. I wouldn't attempt to try to tell you anything. I was just saying that that other things come into play and that the recoil can differ from one rifle to the next, even with the same load.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

Exactly... Well said, JamesB.

Take the venerable, classic, 30-30 lever action and shoot them side by side with the same Remington Core-Lokt 170 grain.

Marlin 336 - kicks just enough to let you know you shot a round from a rifle.
Winchester 94 - kicksa little harder than Marlin 336 probably due to being lighter in weight.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

I asked my Mom and her hunting friends about this comment and this is what they replied.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

guess i shouldn't have got that 7 mag LOL:)

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

Should work for prairie dogs and other non lethal game.;)

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

If it is all you have, then I'm sure it will work satisfactorily on prairie dogs
though some folks will no doubt get their panties in a knot about it.

Good elk round BTW.

To my knowledge not legal for DG in Africa.
It will be up to your guide for DG in Alaska and Canada.

A 7mmRemMag or a 30-06 is a great foundation to build a rack of rifles around.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

I think in Africa they figger real Great White Hunters shoot .40 cal or bigger.

I recall reading that it was because too many English Gentlemen got greased.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

.308, 7mm-08, .260, and 6.5x55SE get my attention. I have only hunted deer so these calibers do the job really well. If I were to hunt Moose, or Elk, I'd take my .30-06 and look for a close shot...or get a .300WSM...but it sure would collect dust most of the time! ;)

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

Of course you are right.I am sure that you can shoot much more accurately with your 308win than the 100 yard groups belowthat I fired with one of my 300 ultramags.:D

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

Nice work, Stubblejumper....... Takes dedication to work up CONSISTANT loads. I showed some targets like that I had shot a few years ago to a fellow who just didn't understand. He looked at them for a moment, and said "But you never hit the Bullseye!!"
Life goes on...............................

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

I shot those three groups one after the other one morning.The timing was perfect as just prior to shooting those groups,two guys showed up with their 270wsm and 300wsm and explained to me just how much better the accuracy of the wsms was in comparison to the longer magnums.I grew tired of hearing their bragging and offered them a wager to prove their theory.After firing those three groups,the two clowns went home a little embarrassed,and their wallets were a little lighter as well.:D

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

Stubblejumper, I think tiny groups are to beexpected with a rifle that is more or less built with premium componets such as McMillan /HS stocks, tuned actions, triggers, Lilja/Hart/Krieger/Shilen barrels etc etc. regardless of caliber. That's kinda like taking candy away from a baby when you have some joe smoe shooting his wally mart special against a finely tuned rifle such as yours;)

With that said here some groups shot in the same session with a pure stock Ruger #1 in 416 Rigby . I know there are more accurate rifles chambered in the ol Rigbyand shooters better than myself, but I am sorta proud ofthe way the rifle handles off the bench. Oh..... and the recoil rocks my world[8D][8D][8D] Something about settling the 1st plane 4A reticle set at 6X on the bull and knowing good an well you are going to get smacked just tickles me....:D:D:D. The bottom left group blew my sub 1/2" average[:'(]

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

I was not suggesting for a moment that those who can comfortably shoot a .416 or a .375 should not. But you have to agree that there are a lot of guys who can't really handle that much gun and would be better off double lunging with a .243 than gut shooting with a .300 ultramag. I would love toable to "comfortably" shoot a .300, but put a dress on me and call me Sally. LOL. I can't shoot a group that good with my .308 Crayton but my guns can. Now lets moveto Off hand vs. Bench. Thats the make or break deal and I am still tryingto get that right. Thats tough and why I use a rest when I can find one. Straight shooting kids.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

If I don't have a rest,I usually shoot off of a knee.I rarely shoot offhand,and I never shoot long distances without a rest.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

But it is still very enjoyable when thatjoe smoethat doesn't know any better is running his mouth.And I am hopeful that they learned a lesson as well.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

Great shooting doubleA!! I have a Ruger #1 in .204 that is only a 1'' to 1 1/2'' gun at a 100 yds..Too heavy of trigger. I used to think your quote was right till I bought Savages.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

.300 wsm group I shot yesterday

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

22.250 group..yes a Savage again;)

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

Big guns make me flinch. Hell a 270 made me flinch and due to breathing problems the cross hairs bounced like a friggen basketball. Results, several misses at deer and coyotes. That browning 270 was a tack driver on the range from a solid rest. Traded it in on a savage 243 with a 26" bull barrel and accu trigger. Practiced shooting a few rounds about once every week or two all summer out to 300 yards. I downed a big buck opening day that was over 350 yards from me. One shot. I wouldn't trade that gun for anything. Would like to have one like it in a 308 to elk hunt with though.

Lots of people aren't that good of shot, me included, so I try to make it up with good equipment. I don't know of many hunters that want to carry a 10 lb rifle all day. Mine probably weights about that fully rigged out and ready to go.If I can do it, then so can everyone else!Its the difference of night and day to me when it becomes crunch time. Heavier is defanitly better! 3 or 4 pounds difference is not all that much!!!

Mark

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

my .22 works fine and dandy for me and my squirrel buddys thank you

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

Hey stubble....those groups are just wrong...lol. Nice shooting.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

So, have you had any women who shoot .30 cal or bigger take great exception to your statement?;)

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

I just have to jump in here, this is too good to pass up!!!! I must be THE MACHO MAN!!!! I hunt with the rifles I have built for my self, a .366 DGW, then there is my double which is chambered for the .450 # 2 Nitro, a .308 Norma and my wifes rifle which is chambered in her own wild cat the .366/358 Norma nick named the .366 Barbie. I hope her shooting a "big bore" does not make her a man, that would be really hard for me to take! Bottom line as I see it is this. I am much more impressed with a person who can hit what they are shooting at where they should or shoot those one hole groups with a .243 then by a person who can miss or hit poorly with a .458!

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

[/align]

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

Good marksmanship is a logical requisitefor any firearm.
Good marksmanship is more a function of the shooter than the rifle.
Good marksmanship is demonstrated in many ways ranging from effective gametakingfrom field positionsto marathons at the sandbagged range table.
Good marksmanship is not automatically guaranteed nor rescindedby the use of any one caliber or cartridge over another.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

at least somebodys on the ball.

RE: Real Men shoot .30 cal or bigger!
 

i happen to think real men can make shots w/ a 7mm-08 or .270 or .243... but hey, thats just me...