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.25 wssm
I was just wondering what guys are using the .25 wssm for. I was thinking about getting one in a model 70 stealth but I really don't know what i would use it for here in Illinois. in others words, I need to be talked into the idea.
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RE: .25 wssm
IMO I wouldn't want one. The ammo will be obsolete soon. Get into reloading for it or stock pile the factory ammo.
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RE: .25 wssm
A few have gone out locally for pick up driving yote snipers. I think they were concerned about wind and longer ranges. I reckon deer would fall to it as well. I would be interested in the round in a single shot. Or perhaps the 6 mm BR. As for longevity, I wonder myself. Winchester put the wssms out and folded up their tent. Not a good sign. If if is kicking in 3 years, I might go for one.
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RE: .25 wssm
Though its future is unsure, it should be a fine deer and large varmit rifle. It will do about anything the 25-06 and 257 Weatherby will do.
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RE: .25 wssm
I had a 25.06 and I liked it. Shot a few mule deer out west with it. Also a good varmint round, but I think myself that a .270 will do what it doesbut better. Just my opinion fellas.
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RE: .25 wssm
ORIGINAL: hardcorehunter IMO I wouldn't want one. The ammo will be obsolete soon. Get into reloading for it or stock pile the factory ammo. For example, when was the last time a comparable number of firearms was produced in a single caliber in such a short time, and how long was it before ammo was no longer commercialy produced for it? Secondly, what is the average time span between the cessation of acommerciallyproduced firearm in a specific caliber, and the cessation of the production of the corresponding ammo. If you can answer some of these questions on a factual basis then I could presume that your opinion is based on industry data and in a commercially significant basis. |
RE: .25 wssm
For example, when was the last time a comparable number of firearms was produced in a single caliber in such a short time, and how long was it before ammo was no longer commercialy produced for it? Secondly, what is the average time span between the cessation of acommerciallyproduced firearm in a specific caliber, and the cessation of the production of the corresponding ammo. |
RE: .25 wssm
Look at win mod 70's and how fast they sold out when the closing was announced. The only thing that still sits on dealers racks are these wssm's. If they are such a hot idea how come they aren't flying off of the shelves. You would think that people would want these to have a little winchester history. My LGS said that some distributors are talking about offering if they buy 5 wssms that the sixth will be for free. My dealer has been in business for 30 years and he won't touch a wssm as they don't sell. The originator of the thread works hard for his money and he asked for advise and I would like to offer some advise IMO. Like oldelkhunter said, the company that invented the wssm closed.
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RE: .25 wssm
I have no experience with the gun or caliber, but if you decide that you want one, PM me. My son's ag teacher, who is not a hunter or a evengun guy, bought the exact gun about a year ago and may have only shot it once. I am pretty sure he would gladly part with it, and you could probably get a decent deal. Let me know if you are interested, and I will call him.
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RE: .25 wssm
ORIGINAL: oldelkhunter When was the last timethat the original designer/manufacturer of a cartridge went out of business within 2years of introducing a cartridge. Really doesn't look good for it but who knows . I am sure you are well aware, it was only one manufacturer of the guns that went out of business. The ammo manufacturer involved in the design, and the second original manufacturer, (Browning), are still going strong. Look at win mod 70's and how fast they sold out when the closing was announced. The only thing that still sits on dealers racks are these wssm's. If they are such a hot idea how come they aren't flying off of the shelves. You would think that people would want these to have a little winchester history. My LGS said that some distributors are talking about offering if they buy 5 wssms that the sixth will be for free. My dealer has been in business for 30 years and he won't touch a wssm as they don't sell. The originator of the thread works hard for his money and he asked for advise and I would like to offer some advise IMO. Like oldelkhunter said, the company that invented the wssm closed. Secondly, none of thisanswers any of the questions I referenced above, and has little to do with the original topic...25 wssm's... You can clarify me if I am wrong...are "all these guns" that you discussing 25 wssm's...I highly doubt it... Once again if you have any actual data concerning the business factors that would lead to this (the 25 Wssm) cartidge being discontinued I would love to hear it...I will gladly admit you are right if you can produce some meaningful data... As for the prices/availabilty of those Model 70 WSSM's you were discussing....they are no different than any other gun...low end models, will always be the last to sell in any collectors market.... Ask your gunsmith how many Model 70 Featherweight stainless 25 wssm's he can pick up at/below cost....I can tell you...none! |
RE: .25 wssm
No one can fore see the future; I also can't see that the 25.06 needed improvement. I will claim this as a fact that I am sure is true. Take a 25wssm to a gun show and a 25.06 to a gunshow and try to trade both of them in on a new gun. I would bet that you will come home with the 25wssm or you lose money trying to get rid of it. Am I wrong with this statement? BTW, I study gunbroker all the time and wheel and deal in guns.
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RE: .25 wssm
ORIGINAL: hardcorehunter BTW, I study gunbroker all the time and wheel and deal in guns. The value of the Featherweights in Stainless Steel have already risen by 20% since the factory closed... I also can't see that the 25.06 needed improvement. |
RE: .25 wssm
I am glad you are happy with yours. If we all liked the same thing it would be a boring world.
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RE: .25 wssm
I have to agree with hardcore on this one. The WSSMs are a dying breed. I do not know a single shooter that has one around my area, or any that desire to have one besides me. I will purchase a 25WSSM in the near future, just becaust I want to tinker with one, and I think it would make a very nice lightweight rifle to carry out west on antelope/muley hunts.
As for the statement of the Model 70 Featherweights in stainless going up, you are correct. The other model 70s have bumped up a bit, but they are not moving off the shelfs. |
RE: .25 wssm
Rammer,
Don't get me wrong, I know there will a time and place when these cartridiges will be difficult to find...However, that will not likely be for many years to come (10-15 minimum...IMHO). That is far different scenario from the one that Hardcore is trying to paint, with statement such as..." The ammo will be obsolete soon" |
RE: .25 wssm
I am sure you are well, it was only one manufacturer of the guns that went out of business. The ammo manufacturer involved in the design, and the second original manufacturer, (Browning), are still going strong. WTF does" I am sure you are well mean"? Only one manufacturer of guns that went out of business but the caliber is known as a 25 Winchester Super Short Mag is it not? They conceived it and it failed and failed miserably just judging from what I have seen on gunbroker and at my local Gander mountain and another very high volume dealer and my Walmart.2 of the stores mentioned handle browning as well and are sitting on abolts as well as a few M70's chambered in 223,243 and 25wssm. All the long action calibers as well as 270,300wsm are gone. These are going the route of the dodo and the 5mm Remington.As far as performance what does the25 do that a 25-06 can't do? You can get 25-06 ammo anywhere and at 1/2 the price. |
RE: .25 wssm
RR
I am not familiar with Dedicated Technology. Do they build entire guns or just AR uppers? The wssmis a cool idea for an AR. PM me, I would like to hear more about this. |
RE: .25 wssm
Unless you are locked in to factory ammo, the ammo availabilty should not be a problem. I would however strock up on Brass while its EASY to get instead of waiting for any possible shortage occurs. Just for myself, I am not into any semi auto rifles for any reason but if thats what you have in mind, stock up now. Even if no shortage occurs, you will probably get them cheaper now that later.
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RE: .25 wssm
I personally stick with calibers that WalMart carries with the exception of 375 H&H. I do think that having an upper for one of my AR's in a "big game" caliber would be quite a novelty. I have already emailed dtech for more info on caliber choices.
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RE: .25 wssm
ORIGINAL: outdoorsmen I was just wondering what guys are using the .25 wssm for. I was thinking about getting one in a model 70 stealth but I really don't know what i would use it for here in Illinois. in others words, I need to be talked into the idea. |
RE: .25 wssm
Went to Gander mountain yesterday to pickup some pistol ammo and inventoried their MOdel 70 Rack and their Browning Abolt's..There was one 300 win mag available in a MOdel 70 and the rest were 223 wssm's and 25 wssms with a 270 and 300 WSM thrown in. Browning Abolt rack was the same pretty much..
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RE: .25 wssm
WTF does" I am sure you are well mean"? Only one manufacturer of guns that went out of business but the caliber is known as a 25 Winchester Super Short Mag is it not? As for the name...the Winchester it is named after...is still in business..Winchester Ammo...:eek: |
RE: .25 wssm
I'm sure there is nothing wrong with the 25 wssm but as an earlier poster said I can't really see why anyone would prefer it over the 25-06. The ballistics for it aren't any better and you can get 25-06 ammo virtually anywhere. Cheaper too!
And as for the ammo becoming less available in the coming years, yes it will. Hell, it's not that available now. Most of the stores that do have it only have one type. So much for trying several brands to see which your rifle likes. Yeah, I know the 25 wssm can be had in a short action. Well, quite frankly I think that's highly overated. I've never gotten half way to one of my shooting houses and thought, "Dang, I sure wish this rifle weighed 6 ounces less." "Did you go hunting today Todd?" .... "Nope, got half way to my stand and had to turn back."....."Did you get sick?"......"Nope"......"Forget something?"......"Nope, rifle weighed 6 ounces too much. Couldn't make it there." |
RE: .25 wssm
I have never understand why they didn't come out with the .25 WSM instead of the .25 WSSM. From the reports I read the wildcat .25 WSM is even better than the .257 WBY. Better meaning thats its suppose to be just as fast or a bit faster, and more accurate.
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RE: .25 wssm
I have never understand why they didn't come out with the .25 WSM instead of the .25 WSSM. |
RE: .25 wssm
I was also hoping for a 25WSM.
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25 wssm
I have a 25 wssm in the winchester model 70 target stock, bull barrel ,and a nikon 6-18 with 600 yd bdc. I have used it on coyotes and whitetail, dropping deer in there tracks at 485yds. As far as ammunition, I load all my own stuff. I can only speek for myself in saying, this gun is a machine when it comes to long range shooting.
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The 25wssm was made to give the same ballistics as the 25-06, right? So, why not go with the more popular 25-06 instead? Maybe you like the idea of a short action, a lighter gun, whatever.
I do suppose that if you handload a 25wssm would be nice, as it uses a little less powder. The -06 can be handloaded a bit hotter if I rightly recall... not that there's really any reason to shoot hot loads. I load my 25-06 light with Varget (be it 75 or 117gr bullets) as it is just because I don't need any extra power. Don't handload? Well, I'd probably go with a 7mm-08 then myself. Performance is about the exact same, and it's more popular with factory loads. Time to start handloading if you don't. It pays for itself. |
Originally Posted by jcchartboy
(Post 1503011)
Oldelk,
I am sure you are well aware, it was only one manufacturer of the guns that went out of business. The ammo manufacturer involved in the design, and the second original manufacturer, (Browning), are still going strong. First, as mentioned above your statement "the company that invented the wssm closed." is completely incorect. Itwas Winchester Ammo that designed the cartridges. (As you probably know they are a completely seperate business from Winchester firearms.) Secondly, none of thisanswers any of the questions I referenced above, and has little to do with the original topic...25 wssm's... You can clarify me if I am wrong...are "all these guns" that you discussing 25 wssm's...I highly doubt it... Once again if you have any actual data concerning the business factors that would lead to this (the 25 Wssm) cartidge being discontinued I would love to hear it...I will gladly admit you are right if you can produce some meaningful data... As for the prices/availabilty of those Model 70 WSSM's you were discussing....they are no different than any other gun...low end models, will always be the last to sell in any collectors market.... Ask your gunsmith how many Model 70 Featherweight stainless 25 wssm's he can pick up at/below cost....I can tell you...none! Sounds like someone got suckered into buying one. I think they are perfect examples of marketing strategy for a failing company that didn't work. As for collector value, I don't think so. Save your pennies and buy a pre-64. WSSM's are as worthless as tits on a bull. All the world needs is another rifle cartridge. Springfield figured it out in 1906. |
Originally Posted by Ridge Runner
(Post 1504252)
Ok, yes I see you all's point about how there is not much demand for the wssm's, and I also wouldn't sell a 25-06 or a 243 to buy one in a bolt gun. Now hear me out.
There are no fewer than 20 companies building AR-15's in various calibers, they can barely keep up with the demand, so, of the millions of AR owners out there, do you think there would be enough people who want to deer hunt with the black rifles to warrant making the brass. Dedicated technologies builds AR's in the wssm line, when he started building them there was a 9 day turnaround, now you wait 6-7 weeks. My opinion may be a little biased but here are my experiences with the 25 wssm/AR. I've got 2 deer seasons under my belt with the 25, the feeding is supberb, seems the fat case has a neck so short that by the time the cartridge is free of the feed lips of the mag, the bullet and cartridge neck are in the chamber. Accuracy is what you'd expect from the custom AR platform 3/8's and less is the norm. this is with nosler 115 gr bt's running from the 22" barrel right at 3000 fps, groups in the .1's and .2's are common for the guys who meticulously work up handloads with varmint weight bullets. I have no way of knowing how many AR's there are in the wssm lines but from the demand that dtech and oly is getting for them and from the rifles built and sold by win and browning, I don't think getting brass will be a problem, and now brass is being made by hornady also, even if win stops making ammo, the demand will be great enough that hornady will offer loaded ammo. Most of the folks who have a wssm really like them, there is a forum dedicated to the wssm line www.wssmzone.com I think I'll keep mine!!! RR |
Nice.... Deer hunting with assault rifles. That's about as ridiculous as it gets.
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removed by RD
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Originally Posted by vabyrd
(Post 3489826)
Nice.... Deer hunting with assault rifles. That's about as ridiculous as it gets.
yep,I assault the devil out of groundhogs with my AR based sporter.....:s1: |
Originally Posted by Ridge Runner
(Post 3490542)
evidently vabyrd doesn't remember Jim Zumbo.
RR ............Guess not. He evidently doesn't own one either........ |
"well todays hunting AR's are far from "assault rifles", but that is a typical uneducated response from someone who knows nothing about them or they're capabilities. The only way AR's differ from the remington semi-auto centerfire rifles are they're appearance and they shoot better than most bolt guns."
Really? I guess 3-gun matches don't count? The AK-47 and the AR-15 WERE NOT designed as hunting rifles. "The rifles being discussed are not capable of firing full automatic. These are semi-automatic sporters. As a group, we need to learn not to use inappropriate labels. I have no use for these rifles, but people have the right to use them and that right should be defended by all" Because two people own weapons does not necessitate a group or "we". Zumbo was probably right. |
This is a quote from the NRA site:
ASSAULT RIFLE By U.S. Army definition, a selective-fire rifle chambered for a cartridge of intermediate power. If applied to any semi-automatic firearm regardless of its cosmetic similarity to a true assault rifle, the term is incorrect. |
Too bad is doesn't pass the smell test, and you know it. Problem is it looks like one and the jacka$$es hunting with them treat it like one. And to hell with the NRA.
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Originally Posted by Ridge Runner
(Post 3490842)
thats not rons post va, ya need to look closer home. You know nothing about AR's and you think its someone elses fault. Zumbo lost all he had when he called out the AR shooters of the country, all 6 million of them, guess you have nothing to lose and nothing to gain by your statements, and they mean exactly that......nothing, get a life!
RR The fact is the nuts get in their little sewing circles and send $$$ to those knuckleheads at the NRA because they're scared to death that Uncle Sam is coming to knock down the door. Ever been to the NRA building? You should see the crap they spend your money on, and it ain't the second amendment. |
VA, please explain to all of us why a semi auto rifle that fires a .243, 7mm-08, or .308 and looks like....
 Is any different that a semi auto rifle that fires the same .243, 7mm-08, or .308 cartridge and looks like...  Because they both do exactly the same thing and function in nearly the exact same way. Both are semi automatic and incapable of firing fully automatic. Both fire the same cartridges. both are Mossy Oak brand camo. They differ only in appearance. And then you can explain to us what exactly the NRA has to do with this discussion other than them posting the US Armies definition of an assault rifle. I think you have been drinking far too much of the liberals anti gun kool aid. |
Intent. One was designed for the military, the other for hunting. Remington ran out of crap to sell, so they decided to go after the AR platform in order to get guys to spend money. You must have fallen for it too. Funny, the AR goes all the way back to the early 60's and yet only today is it the be all end all of deer hunting rifles. There is no functional obsolescence (sorry for the big words) in firearms, so somebody had to create a new buzz. It started with the WSSM garbage, and now it's the AR world. Pick up a book or two and learn a little market analysis, sales analysis, and cost accounting and you'll see the picture. The demand is not from a need for a better way to shoot deer, it's from an obsolete industry. The problem is most Americans cant stand the fact that most of it is being shipped overseas. Hence the Miroku at the bottom.
Last time I checked, Remington had a semi automatic rifle. Damn, I thought I actually had one at one time. Must have been mistaken. I wonder why the long wait? Guess I'll just head back to Idaho for some Elk hunting with a 50 BMG. Maybe I'll swing by Arizona on the way and have Mike Dillon fuel up the heli so we don't have to walk as much, I hear he's pretty accurate with the mini gun. |
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