B Ott

I'm looking to purchase my first high-powered rifle and have decided on a .30-06. I've held and researched a variety of brands/models, and felt like the Vanguard felt the best (at that price). However, while reading these forums it seems as if the the Howa lightning might be a similar gun, if not identical. Is this the case? Is a Vanguard just a Howa with the words "Weatherby" enscribed for an extra $100? What are the differences? I haven't seen any Howas around here, so I can't do a direct comparison at this point on my own... Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

~Brian

stubblejumper

They are the same gun.Howa builds the vanguard for weatherby.

thndrchiken

Same gun minor differences, like the bolt handle has the classic
Weatherby teardrop, slighthly different stock and the name Weatherby instead of Howa. I can tell you this much my 1500 Supreme Varminter in 223 is the smoothest action in the safe. If you can get the Howa go for it.

saladin

hmm, lets see. weatherby insisted on some changes from howa's basic design. fairly minor stuff. the bolt is fluted on the weatherby, for example. and i think the bolt shroud differs as well (haven't looked at one for a while). where they really diverge is if you go up one or two models from the vanguard. action stays the same, but the fibreguards get a much better "bell and carlson" stock, complete with aluminium bedding plate. nice fitting monte carlo comb, feels much better on the shoulder.

if you want some advice, i'd also have a good look at a tikka t-3. that action is smoother than both the weatherby and howa, and in my opinionis a fundamentally better rig. stocks are nothing flash to look at, but accuracy is exceptional. you get sako know-how, at vanguard prices. good luck, and happy shooting.

oldelkhunter

Please explain how

ShatoDavis

Yes by all means enlighten us.

I don't think its fair to make a statement like that without some clarification.

I believe the tika produces a "smoother" fell because they sleeve their actions with teflon. Does that make them "fundamentally" better? Quality wise I've never read anyone claiming that the tika was "fundamentally" better than others. I've heard good things about them but I would be interested in someone explaining why they are "fundamentally beter".

AmericanPioneer

I know with the Weatherby they guarantee the accuarcy of the rifle and provide a target that was fired with the rifle. Howa doesnt do this even though they may make the Weatherby. I think that the Tikka by Sako has an accuracy guarantee too, but they are harder to find and cost more in my area(have to be special ordered also). I looked at a Tikka before that was blue with a walnut stock and noticed the shroud on the bolt was made of some sort of polymer or hard plastic. I know the shroud on the Weatherby and Howa are metal. I would pay the extra for the Weatherby because you know they will stand behind the guarantee. They have had an excellent reputation over the years they have been in business and that would influence my decision, plus the Weatherby Vanguard is more refined than the Howa. Also, bases made for a Remington 700 will work on the Weatherby if Im correct making the chore of finding some for it easy. Hey!!! Why not get a Remington 700 in the matte black. I think it is called the special purpose model. They usually sell them at all Wal-Marts. It will probably be cheaper and if you can find the older model(not 2006), will have sights installed. My friend has two of them and they are extremely accurate and have one of the best triggers made for a factory rifle. I saw the .243 youth for 364.99 the other day new at wal-marts. The bigger one costs about the same. They have one of the smoothest bolts in the industry too. Why do you think the military uses the 700 actions for their sniper rifle builds. Got to be something to them.

saladin

ok, lads. i am looking at it mainly from an "inherent" accuracy point of view, and i think the Tikka gets the nod fora fewreasons.

1) the ejectionport in the action is relatively narrow. the action does not have half the steel cut away across the bridge like some other actions.

2) the magazine is a detachable, single column arrangement. removal of steel from the action flat is minimised.

both of these factors result in a stiffer and strongeraction, which should be conducive to good accuracy.( single loading through the port is a bit fiddly, though). it's pretty much as close to a single-shot action as you can get, and they are traditionally more accurate than repeaters because of stiffness.also,Tikka free-float the barrels,unlike the vanguard, which has a substantial pressure point in the forend.and i like the dovetail setup on the bridge. sako optilock mounts clip straight on. it's a good system for mounting scopes. The trigger is good too - you get the sako set-up. asthetically, i also think the machining is top notch. i've seen higher pricedremingtons etcin whichyou can see the reamer marks where they broached the locking lugs into the reciever. and the barrel runs true down the centre of the stock channel, unlike a few weatherby's i've seen. doesn't effect accuracy, of course, but the care taken is not as impressive.

oh, and i don't think Tikka teflon the bolt. it's just machined from a single piece of steel, with no protrusions like mauser-type extractor claws ( which also reduces the need to thin out the side of the action for an extractor raceway).for those who think it matters, bolt lift is 75 degrees, versus 90 for the vanguard.

and tikka guarantee 1 MOA three shot groups. the standard vanguard gets a 1.5 MOA guarantee.

don't get me wrong, i'm not knocking howa or the vanguards. they are excellent, excellent rifles, and i very nearly bought one. the vanguard you buy could very well shoot better than the tikka your mate buys. i just happen to think your chances of getting a top shooting Tikka are a bit better.

sorry if i offended any of you guys. it was certainly not my intention. hopefully i've justified my thinking a bit. bottom line - you won't go wrong with any of these three. just pick the features most applicable to you, and happy hunting.

Disclosure: i own a Tikka T-3 varmint stainless in 22/250. it puts 5 shots ( handloads)into under 1/2 MOA regularly. My father has a Smith & Wesson ( what Howa were called in the 1980's) in .222. It also shoots 1/2MOA, but required free-floating, bedding and rebarrelling to get there.we both feel that the Tikka is a marginally better rifle out of the box.

oldelkhunter

That is a negative in a lot of hunting situations. Your in Australia if you were in a situation where gloves had to be used because of cold weather,snow or sleet and you had to reload the gun then tell me how good it is.

Makes no bit of difference Vanguards shoot more then acceptably for 99% of big game hunting with that setup.


Not quite the Sako setup ..a sako trigger is solid ss or chromemoly..the Tikka is a combo of aluminum and steel

THis may or may not be an advantage..this is one of my gripes with Sako and it may be my only gripe.

Now the Howa is the stronger action by far since it is one of the few rifles made today that has a forged and machined reciever. It also has a better gas handling system in the event of cartridge failure. It also has steel and aluminum bottom metal in lieu of polymer which to me is a turnoff other people it doesn't bother.

I think Tikka's at a certain price point are a good rifle but when they start approaching the 600 dollar range like a lot of them are then they are no bargain. They are also 100 dollars or more retail price wise then a comparable vanguard.


No offense taken just wanted to see what your thoughts were.

B Ott

Thanks for the info everyone! It seems like I might end up liking the Weatherby a bit more than the Howa and might have a few extra features and/or quality assurance that is worth the extra $50.

Thanks for the recommendation. I looked at those, and liked them A LOT, but they were the same price as the Vanguard here and the Weatherby just felt a little better at my shoulder. Seemed to be a verysolid gun though.