Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

I have never had a Pre-64 Win action. I have alot of 700 actions, and they have always served my purpose. Even the 98 actions work well for me. Do you really think they are that supurior to other actions. Or is people "picking pepper out of ant sh$#".

RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

B.C.,
I guess you said it best with the last comment,although I am a big fan of the pre-64/ classic {winchester} , I still find that the remington hands down will out shoot the mauser design, so if accuracy is desired remington is your best bet but if building a custom rifle it only seems natural to use the claw extractor design. It is an excellent choice for dangerous game due to the fact the cartridge is held directly on the bolt thus more realible in the field then the push feed design of the remington.

RON KONTOWSKY
ACTIONS BY R.A.K.

CUSTOM GUNSMITHING CUSTOM PISTOLSMITHING

RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

since i am out of the know, what happened in 64 that everyone wants a pre-64 action?

propmahn

RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

The only negative I have heard on the pre-64 is that it can't handle a ruptured case as well as the newer versions. Too expensive to build is why they went to the push feed from what I have read and correct me if I'm wrong there were 52 separate machining operations on the action alone to produce it.

RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

I believe that winchester started to farm the manufacture of thier rifles to a company in Japan at that time. They also made some design changes I believe on some models . Don't quote me on that I am just repeating what I heard from a gunsmith .

RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

one thing i have heard is that CF will chamber evan if the gun is upside down. its supsto be more relibal on feeding and extracting. maybe CF are my pf will chamber upside down to. of all my shoting with pf i have never had a problem with it feedig or extracting. the only falure of a bolt gun i have had was with a surplus 98m. the claw broke. so i dont know if the cf vs pf is that big of deal. Btw on the falure of the 98 i loaded it from the mag.idid not force the bolt over the cartarge.

but from what i have read the post 64 mod 70 it was not just the change from cf to pf that caused the problems is the fact the whol gun was redisined and looked and functiond cheaply
L. O. D. Charter member and L.O.S.

RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

There have been 3 changes to the Model 70 since the pre-64 was discontinued.

Chg 1. It was redesigned into a push feed action because it was cheap to make not because it was subbed out to Japan.

CHg 2. they added a rail to the reciever to make the bolt travel smoother.
Chg 3. they brought back the pre -64 made some minor changes to the way it will handle a ruptured case, the claw is not spring steel so it will bend and remain bent and it is entirely made on CNC machines so it is probably better built than the original pre64.

There is no reason to build a custom rifle on the pre-64 action if you have a perfectly good post 64 CRF action..just replace the extractor with one of spring steel and go from there. Incidentally I have a new Model 70 CRF and MOdel 700 they can feed cartridges upside down too not that I have ever had the chance to do that hunting yet but who knows give me enough time anything is possible.

RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

My added 2 cents....
First cent....
CRF, having to chamber a round upside down is highly unlikely. However, one documented incident that I'm aware of saw the shooter using a tree trunk for a rest. After the first shot with his 375 HH post 64 push feed the Cape Buffalo charged. As he worked the action the shooter simultaneously spun around to the other side of the trunk for the next shot but upon pulling the trigger nothing happened. The guide dropped the buffalo. Thinking he had a misfire he opened the bolt only to find an empty chamber. The live round was lying on the ground. Seemingly when he spun around and at the same time working the action the round had fallen from the action and the bolt closed on an empty chamber. Maybe CRF not quite as accurate but definitely more reliable.

Second cent....
My bolt action rifles are all CRF, Winchesters & Rugers. I'll give you that they may not be quite as accurate as say the Remington 700. However, IMHO 1 inch at a hundred yards is inconsequential when your shooting at an animal in the field with no bench rest. And a big advantage of the Mouser style CRF action is the 3 position safety over the Remington action which allows the bolt to open when cocked and safety on. Carrying a rifle in thick woods, sometimes in hand sometimes slung over the shoulder will inevitably see the bolt on a Remington catch on something and be fully or partially opened. If 1 inch MOA from the bench is important you stand a better chance with a Remington out of the box than a Winchester or Ruger. If it's a reliable hunting rifle you need and can live with 1 1/2 to 2 inches MOA choose the latter. gg.

"I generally avoid temptation unless I can't resist it."

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RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

So are you saying you wouldn't hunt with a 700 action? Maybe I am strange, but never had problems with the 700 action. This goes back to my question of picking pepper out of ant ????.

RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

I haven't saw any proof that one action is more accuate than another, but the Pre 64 was a very nice action. The controlled round feeding, three position safety, and the smoothness were fantastic.

RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

I think alot of the hype over pre 64 model 70's is collector related. Just my .02 I don't see any advantage in crf to pf. They both work!

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RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

Oldelkhunter said it best, the only real bad point to the pre-64 winchester action is the way it handles gas escape. The gas has an easy exit right down the left raceway that goes directly into the left eye of the shooter, not good. The newer pre-64 style classic actions have a block in place that is designed to eliminate this. If I were building a custom rifle I would pick the new classic action over the original pre-64.

In my opinion there's no reason not to have CRF on a hunting rifle. It's undeniably a more reliable feeding system and gives nothing up to the push feeds in any arena. The often quoted assumption that a remington 700 action results in better accuracy is hogwash in my opinion. The only way you'd ever see any difference is with a heavy barreled benchrest rig, which is something you'd never hunt with. Winchester CRF actions are capable of amazing accuracy, I had a 7mm stw built on a stainless M70 classic action with a #4 hart barrel that always grouped under 1/2" and averaged more like .3". All that and it was on a reliable CRF action. I'll take that.

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RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

Boy there are a lot of things people overlook when choosing a rifle. Safety should be number one...personally I don't like the fact that a Remington has a multi-purpose trigger one being the safety .it is flat plain dangerous and they have a lawsuit or have settled a lawsuit to that effect. I also believe that a bolt should remain locked with the safety on and anything else is hazardous and may cost you game or in some instances your life. The 2 best safeties IMHO out there are the Ruger and Winchester 3 position because they lock the bolt. As far as accuracy goes screw on a match grade barrel to anyone of the major actions and then put them in a machine rest using the same loads and tell me what kind of difference you'll have. Bottom line : Properly made rifles with good build quality will always shoot well and certainly better than most hunters can do them justice

RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

Oldelkhunter, why do you think that the bolt should remained locked with the safety on. I would rather unload my gun with the safety on myself. Out of all my years of hunting, I haven't seen where this is a issue. Maybe you can better explain.

RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

BigCountry : because after many years of hunting with Remingtons and other makes usually in brushy terrain I am tired of having to check the bolt to see that it hasn't opened, Instead of concentrating on the task at hand .This has also occured while the rifle was in a scabard with the bolt handle and the rear of the stock exposed(albeit poor scabard design). You can unload the gun with the safety on with a Winchester and the Ruger as you well know by putting the safety in the middle position. Based on what others have said on this previously I am not alone feeling this way about it.

RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

Oh no Oldelkhunter, I am not questioning on whether your right or not, I was just wondering what you meant. I must say while in newfoundland a few weeks ago, my bolt opened and I didn't know it. It didn't create a problem, but I guess could have getting junk down in the action or even my bullet coming out. I have very little experience in Winchester actions. But the safety thing never really bothered me on my remingtons. I mean, I always point the gun in a safe direction anyway. But locking the bolt is interesting.

RE: Whats your opinion of the Pre-64 Actions
 

Bigcountry...if you want to modify your Remington to a 3 position safety like the one that comes on NULA(New Ultra light Arms) I believe they sell it or and I know that Timney sells it in conjunction with one of their triggers and Brownells used to/or still does sell it.