Do I need a .338?
 

So, I just bought a bow (I was experiencing dimensia) and I already have an 06, 243, 22 and 12 guage. What I need to know is if I should just go larger. I am contemplating an Alaska hunt in a year or two and it seems this is a good large game standard. I just dont think you could ever feel undergunned with a 338 win mag. So lets have the opinions!

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

If you arren't hunting the big bears then absolutely not. The 30-06 you have is more than capeable of taing all of North Americas hooved game animals. It is still capeable of taking the big bears, though I'd want a 338 or larger if I were chasing them.


Having said that, an Alaska hunt is definetly a reason to purchase a new gun in a larger chambering. ;)

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

Yep, you definately need a bigger gun! Well, you probably don't, but going North to hunt is a hella good reason to get a new gun if you ask me! hehehe

IF your chasing bears go for the 375 :D

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

I like the way you think bigbulls! I am thinking of that vanguard in 338 if I get one because it is stil around or under 400. Finding a 338 for less than 5 bills is tough. I might have to sell one of my gibsons to get it though. And an old fella gave me advice when dealing with guns and the misses, he said that when the wifey asks how many more guns do you need, you just tell her only one more! EJ

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

A .338 Win. Mag. would be great for Alaska. Good luck.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

I have to agree with Rammer. It sounds like a great excuse for a new "toy". I do have a question though, why a 338 and not a 375 H&H or other medium-big bore?

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

The .338 seems like all the gun one could possibly need for any North American game animal; however, when I am standing beside a large mounted Brownie or Polar bear, I get to feeling like even a .375 H&H is none too big! Or even a .600 NITRO, for that matter! Some of these varmints have to be seen in person to be believed!!

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

I can agree completly eldeguello, but a 375 H&H is expensive, a little too expensive for me. I can get a 338 for around 500. I do like the 375, but I dont even know who chambers those things in a price rangeI can afford. The alaskan trip if it ever happens will only be due to a second job and saving money like a mad man so every dime counts. EJ

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

I was just asking and there is no implications intended. I will start by saying that I have absolutely NO USE for a big bore gun, but I recently bought a Blaser R93 Prestige Safari 375 H&H out of the estate of a friend that was killed in June. I have been to the range with it and had a pretty good time. For me, a big bore is a "toy", and I hope this one is a good investment.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

I would first wait to see if you actually plan a trip.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

and miss the chance to get a rifle now? You must be kidding!

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

The 338-win mag would "help" make your rifle battery complete. You will still need severalmore rifles to make you collection complete.;)

The 338-win mag is a great choicefor north america large game.

I will be hunting Alaska in 2007. I willbringing my bow & my 300-win mag.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

I have a .300 Win Mag and subsequently have little use for a .338. Hard to imagine what you couldn't kill in North America with this rifle pushing a 200 grain Partition or 180 A-Frame. But going up from a 30/06, the .338 would be a good choice. If I need something bigger, I think I would skip the .375 and go all the way up toa .416 Rem Mag.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

I would by-pass the 338 in a heartbeat. If its to big for the 30-06 then I want a 375 H&H or much better yet, a 416 Remington Mag. I had one of those for several years. I bought it for a Big Bear hunt but never really used it for that. I stayed with the 30-06 although I had the 416 along. The 416 is a stopper big time. I have also carried the 45-70 Marlin in Bear country with complete confidence.. The 4550 Marlin and the 444 would also serve well. If lomg range big stuff in in your plan, then the 375 H&H would be the ticket. I quess I wouldn't buy any caliber based on price alone. I also would agree thith BC. If you get the trip planned then take a more serous look at hardware. JMO.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

And here I thought the 338 was the thing. I suppose if I got a 45-70 and a rifle that could handle hot loads from it, it would do dandily up to 100 yards or so.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

I would go with the 45/70 . with some hot loads this thing will make a serious wound channel. Love the 06 it is a great calibur. They would be great partners.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

Any thoughts on the marlin? Can it shoot the hot 45-70 loads?

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

The Marlin will handle any 45-70 load you put in it and with these full loads is easily a 200 yard gun on even the largest animals.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

I have a 1895 marlin. I have put some hot loads thru it. But can't find any loads that shoot under 1.5MOA that are hot. For example, I have been working with IMR4198 and 300gr partitions. I get 1.5MOA easy with 42-46gr. But after that I get vertical stringing and gets worse the closer I get to 52gr. I am kicking out at around 2000fps. Not exactly a hot load. But it does the job. I might start working with 3031.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

1.5 MOA I could live with. How much can you get one for?

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

Having hunted deerpretty extensively on Kodiak Island in the early 1990's, I'd have to say the .338 is an excellent choice. I used a 7mm-08 and .375 H&H, depending on the bear population of the area I was hunting.

That being said,there's a new kid on the block that I would pick above any of them: the 325 WSM. It's a short action that comes in a LIGHT package. Alaska hunting is a lot of up anddown, so you'll really appreciate this. The 325 is enough gun for a brownie also. A brand, spanking new Model 70Featherweight or Browning A-bolt can be had for under $700.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

Not to push in any one direction but you may wish to check the Ruger M77's on the Wally World website. Their prices are interesting to say the least.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

If you are serous about the 45-70 Marlin, Check out the Corbon and Garret sites for real bear stopper loads. Cape Buffalo too. A fellow from Handloader Magazine killed two Cape buffalo with one shot. He was using the Corbon load as I recall. In the Marlin rifle. Another guy took the Big Six in Africa with the Marlin 45-70. The Buffalo hunters of years past took thoudands of american Bison out to 600 yards with the Black Powder 45-70 loads.

There is nothing wrong with the 338. I just never found that it outperformed the 300's enough to be worth while and the 375 and 416's are head and shoulders above the 338. Never found a nich for the 338 enen though I owned two of them. A Ruger and a Savage.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

My son has a 338 Savage that is a one hole wonder at 100 yds.He's a big boy 285 lbs and benches 350, so he can stand the recoil. I on the other hand shoot a Marlin 45-70 ,it to groups very well at 100 yds, if you piss off anything on this continent that you can't kill with one of these you should have stayed home. I see no need for a 375 unless you just want one, but then isn't that what makes our sport fun .I think anyone who likes guns and hunting should also reload ,you can taylor your ammo to specific task. For instance you can load a 338 down to 30-06 power levels and lessen recoil at the same time, it's also a lot of fun.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

Maybe I'll give that a look.

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[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

I gues getting back to the question, No you don't need a 338 as a majority of the big game animals ever killed were killed long before the 338 was even an idea. Back when the 375 H&H ruled for medium range knock down power around the world.;)Once again if I were to buy a rifle just for the bigger than elk animals, It would have more TKO than the 338. Otherwise I would stick to a 30-06 or 300 Mag. They will do anything that the 338 will do.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

No offence there cma3366a but the 45-70 is far from a deer and black bear only cartridge and I certainly wouldn't consider it a short range number either. People have taken large game animals such as bison from distances of 1000 yards with the 45-70 with a single shot. A 30-30 is a short range elk cartridge, the 45-70 isn't even in the same ball park.

The 45-70 is up to the task of tackling the worlds biggest and most dangerous game animals when the correct ammunition is chosen which is readily availble from companies such as Corbon, Garret, and Buffalo Bore.

A 300 grain, hard cast, flat nosed bullet leaving the gun at 2350 fps will flatten any animal that you will encounter on this continent. If sighted in correctly it will have a MPBR of +/- 3 inches to 225 yards.

I would never feel at a handicap toting a 45-70, 450 Marlin or 444 Marlin when going after any animal in North America.


Having said that, the .338 Win mag will have a definite edge in the trajectory department but certainly not in the killing/ stopping department.

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RE: Do I need a .338?
 

It is great that we all have our own opinion. But I can tell you if I want to put an animal to the ground I would not hesitate for one second, My 45/70 would be in my hand. Have you ever seen the wound channel left from a 405gr bullet going 2300 fps ? That is a chunck of lead. Its like a trian slow but once on its way its hard to stop. And those flat nose bullets just plow a groove in there path . In the right hands it can and has been a great 200 yard rifle. But I do understand about the hunt being expensive and I to would want to take my .300mag just in case there was a 300 yard shot I would feel better taking it then with my 45/70. But he already has an 30-06 and if I were him I would take that and back it up with a big bore 45/70 with some buffalo bore 405 gr soft points. That round will kill anything I am man enough to hunt. good luck

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RE: Do I need a .338?
 

405 gr. bullet? 2300 fps? Out of a 45-70?

Danger!
Severe B.S. Alert!

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

Just quoting buffalo bores charts on my box of shells my friend.Even though I have never chronyed them they sure seem to pack a punch.I have never really tryed to push my hand loads to there level. But they are fun to shoot if you like big bores.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

From the Buffalo Bore Website....
2nd one down 8b,
2000fps quoted (and puffed a bit at that [magnum?])

To get 2300 you'll have to drop to a much, much smaller bullet.

.45-70 Magnum
Lever Gun

[align=left]Printed Order Form[/align]
[align=center]
Item 8A:
430 gr. L.B.T.- L.F.N. - G.C. (1925 fps / M.E. 3537 ft. lbs.)
(Big game up to 2500 lbs. - Penetrator Load)
[align=center]Per Box of 20
$43.99
Order Now! [/align]
Item 8B:
405 gr. J.F.N. (2000 fps / M.E. 3597 ft. lbs.)
(Big game up to 1000 lbs. - Expander Load)
Per Box of 20
$42.99
Order Now!

Item 8C:
350 gr. J.F.N. (2150 fps / M.E. 3592 ft. lbs.)
(Big game up to 2500 lbs. - Penetrator Load)
Per Box of 20
$42.99
Order Now!
[align=center][/align]Item 8D:

500 gr. FMJFN (1625 fps /M.E. 2931 ft. lbs.)
A non-expanding Full Metal Jacket bullet designed for the
deepest penetration on the largest game animals.
Per Box of 20
$53.99
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Item 8E:
300gr. Speer Uni Core @ 2350 fps (3678 ft. lbs.)
(Big Game up to 500 lbs. - Expander Load)
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RE: Do I need a .338?
 

The fastest you could even think to push a 405gr is with 52gr of RL7 or 55gr of H322 and even that will bearly kick you over 2000fps. And I have found to be very inaccuarte in most levers.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

Hey I checked my ammo boxes and you are right got them mixed up oh well. Why are you on my back so hard anyway are youthat partial to .338. Please forgive me for I have sinned !!! Well before I sent this I went and shot it trough my chroy I got 2050 average three shots .with my 32in tube (the best 2095 ) and my 300 gr avg. 2276.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

I didnt' know I was one your back. You made a huge statement. People were just not accepting it.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

I owned a .338 winnmag for around 20 years and used it on several moose, a couple deer , black bears some caribou and even a timberwolf who was stalking me while I was calling moose. There is no doubt that the .338 is Ideal for Alaska. A moose is enormous compared to a deer and those who have not hunted them are usually shocked when they encounter one but they are also easy to kill. A 30-06 is really plenty of rifle for moose. The advantage of the .338 is you might just see a huge bull walking away from you and with an 06 thats not an ethical shot. I have shot bull moose in the fart vent and have the bullet break a front shoulder and exit the front of the moose, result being one very dead moose. The other thing is if I was anywhere near a grizzly bear then I would not consider anything less than a .338 mag ! If you can shoot it well the .338 is a great round. But my experience is lots of people develop flinches when getting to that level of recoil. I myself had a muzzle brake on mine which is why I sold it. Just not worth the hearing damage to me. Beautiful round though.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

Accuracy in both rifles and statementsis a good thing. I amsort of a big bore fan, so I am aware how difficult it is to just magically pick up 300fpswhen you are talking about400gr 458 bullets. That kind ofgaincomes at a seriouscost to powder, case capacity, and recoil when you are talking big bores.

338WMs are a nice step up from standard calibers if you wish to continue with high power and not drop to lesser ranges. I am not necessarily partial just to338s but they are a nice step up from 3006as they haveheavy bullets with a good cross section, are reasonably fast and flat for their size, deliver plenty of energy yet are fairly easy on recoil. I personally find theydo put decidedly more thump on game than a 3006 or 300WM. They are not the onlychoice but are a good solid stepforward for someonelooking toexpand their collection above 3006. There are others.

As mentioned earlier the 375 and 416 arecertainly more powerful however mosthunters wont learn how to handle themrightso one has to be careful aboutrecommending them.Most hunters would probably be better off first moving from a 3006 up tosomething like a 338 instead of moving up to a 375 or 416. Then if they are comfortable withitand decide they want more then they they can always move up another notch later. Too much, too quick, not good.

RE: Do I need a .338?
 

There is very little difference in recoil between the 375H&H and the 338 Win Mag. The 416 Rem Mag steps up the recoil quite a bit however. While shooting the 416 off the Bench is really no fun at all,(I have done it a good bit), Shooting it off hand or while hunting is not so bad. I am not a fan of recoil and my shoulder is now shot to H#*l but I could stand a few shots even now. The 45-70 while it can be loaded to kick pretty hard, is nowhere near the recoil of most of the Magnums. The load that wiped out the buffalo was a 500 grain bullet with as much black powder as they could stuff in the case. This load was trucking along at about 1300 FPS. However when you get the 500 grain bullet traveling, it does not stop easily. I can't get 70 grains of Black powder behind a 500 grain bullet without compressing the heck out of it. Thats using a 30 inch drop tube and a compression die with 2F Goex. I only shoot these loads out of the single shots as I don't like gumming up a Lever with Black powder fouling. A nice mild load in the 45-70 is 13.0 grains of Unique behind a 405 grain bullet with a WW Mag primer. No fill is needed and it shoots pretty well at around 1150-1250 fps. This load shoots well in the No.l , No.3 and the NEF's.