.223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

I plan to get my daughter, which is now 7, a rifle for next years Bama gun season. Right now she weighs about 53#s. I've been told that A .243 would be too much recoil for her. I've also been told that there isn't much difference in recoil between the .243 and .223. I don't know because I've never shot either one.Which would be best? Also, I know that a .243 is a good 300 yd. gun but going by the ballistics of a .223, looks like it is a 150 yd. gun at the most. Would that be about right? Thanks, Scott Woody

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

The 223 will kill deer well at 150 yards. I think the 243 and 223 are interchangable at that range. I have used both a great deal. Use the Barnes, Nosler Partition or the Trophy Bonded bullets in the 223 and it will work fine. These bullets are made for deer hunting with the 22 centerfires.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

Please don't get the 223. I know it *can* take down a deer, but there's precious little room for error and the situations where it would be an ethical shot are very limited, IMO.

My buddy is a good shot. He handloads and gets mickeymouses at 100 yards. He brought both of his .223s ona deerhunting trip we took last month. He used the Remington with a custom receiver and ended uplosing two nice bucks. Both broadside around 100 yards.

The first was shot just before nightfall and our whole party looked everywhere but found no blood and no deer. He was sure he'd hit it, but he admitted getting buck fever and shaking a bit, so it was possible that he missed, or worse - missed the vitals.

Next morning he went back out with the 223 again. Another buck shows up and he took his time and put two bullets in him. Never found that deer, either,or even any blood.

Please reconsider buying a 223 for deer. I'm inclined to say that if something like a .243 kicks too much, it may be just best to wait until she's older/bigger.

Maybe an alternative is a .220 Swift or a 22-250. I don't notice any kick from my Swift at all, but it's a heavy target/varmint rifle, so that may make a difference. I personally think both the Swift and 22-250 are still a bit small for deer, but the only two deer I ever shot at with my Swift dropped in their tracks.

Best of luck to you - can't wait until my kid is old enough!

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

the 243 kicks more than the 223, but if she can't shoot a 243 comfortly, she shouldn't be hunting yet. i agree with c j, the 223 can kill deer, but the shot has to be perfect. borrow a 243 and she how she likes it. let her get used to it. goodluck lswoody

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

I don't have problems with the idea of buying a .22 for the purpose of deer hunting. But, like it's already been said, to combine minimum gun with new/inexperience hunter is not a good idea. I have a 22-250 and if that is too much recoil she needs to what a few more years. Go for a 243. Maybe even a 30-30.
This should helphttp://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

how is it legal for an 8 yr old child to hunt with a rifle?

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

I agree the .22's are not good for the inexperienced hunter, thats for sure!

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

Lots of deer have been shot and killed with the 22's, (lots have been lost too) but i'm with the rest that feel if a 243 is too much recoil, maybe waiting is better. To be honest, i think a 257 Roberts or 260 Rem. would be even better.

Drilling Man

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

My daughter took her first deer at the age of 6 years old with a Ruger/McGaughy 77/30 ( 30 m1 carbine cartridge). She is 10 now and has taken a totalof 5 deer with the little gun ( 2 of the deer where taken with one shot,... oops). This year she put a deer down with a Ruger 77/44, 44 mag. 180 grn sp. Before she was allowed to hunt deer, she had to master marksmanshipat the bench and infield conditions, she also had numerous practicalanatomy lessons on cattle our family has butchered. All this learning was for teaching shot placement. I think a 357 mag in a marlin lever actionwith a trigger job and 12" length of pull stock would be the best factory gun for young hunters. If a kid keeps thier shots within 80 yards with these gun and uses all thier training you better have some freezer space handy!

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

I don't think I would allow my kids to hunt until they were old enough to clean their kill. Not saying they need to do everything themselves, but they definately need to be involved in the process beyond pulling the trigger.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

Get her a 223 with some premium 55gr bullets practice practice practice keep them shots within 150yd and you'll be eating tasty venison. I've killed 8 deer with a 223rem and havent lost any or for that matter even had one ever run, they've all just dropped with lung shots. Keep em broadside and hit em where it counts and the 223 WILL work. I've seen the evidence first hand.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

This would be a pet peeve of mine....I killed 2 deer last weekend that had been wounded by someone else and would have probably died. I had to leave one of them due to the injury being so bad. We owe it to the game we hunt to use a BIG enough caliber to do the job easily....not some pop gun that may or may not get it done even with someone who is a good shot. With that caliber you would have to limit your choices to slow moving or stopped broadside shots.We also owe it to them to only take GOOD shots..none of this texas heart shot bs or running shots through the timber.

Theres almost no margin for error with that gun although Im sure I will get blasted by people who have killed loads of deer with it. This isnt directed at anyone personally so dont take it that way. Its just a rant from someone who is tired of seeing people feed the buzzards and not really caring.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

For an experienced shooter I would say proceed with caution. But for an 8yr old girl I would say no way.

Tom

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

frizzellr
You missed it. Out here in the country, when we butcher a beef everyone gets too help clean the kill. Thats what a "practical anatomy lesson" is. My little girl is well on her way knowing how to use a knife.
"Pulling the trigger" is poor marksmanship skill, if this is your technique, I'd suggest you seak a range sesson with qualified instuctor. At our ranch we teach all aspects of marksmanship, including trigger control.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

I guess there are two ways of looking at this. A youngster who is not yet a real marksman may well pull off a good shot with a gun that they are not afraid of. So too are they more likely to love to practice with a shoulder friendly cartridge. For adults I favor a Minimum of 25 caliber. For kids I would favor which ever legal gun that they can shoot best. I have taken deer with the old 222 without loosing any. Even one with the 22 Hornet which is no longer legal in our state. I don't recommend the 22 centerfires at perfect deer calibers but for some young shooters I can see a place for it. That said it is the responsibility of the hunter and parent to insure a quick clean kill.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

LSWOODY, do you handload? I can see how this would be a fabulous excuse to get started. You've got time to work up a load for which ever caliber you choose. I would still favor loading a .243 or (or any .25) or 30-30 light...but would feel *okay loading a .22 "up" with some Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets for a young deer gun. Even then, I'd opt for the 22-250 instead of the .223

I hope this thread doesn't discourage you from taking your daughter hunting. Even if you decide to just hold off on letting her shoot till she's older take her along...she'll have a blast and something to look forward to when she can finally do it herself.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

You can get a .270 or a .308 and use Remingtons 50% less recoil
and the recoil is right around a .243. The good thing is your are
shooting a bigger bullet to and the .308 and the .270 has more
foot pounds than a .243

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

Thanks for all of the replies. As long as a child passes hunter ed class they can hunt in AL. I would not let her hunt in a stand or a blind by her self. I will be with her at all times. A guy I work with just got his step son a .243 H&R single shot and he said she could try it. I understand that a .223 is on the bare minimal side for deer, but which ever caliber I got with. I'll be sure she has plenty of practice and can make good shots at the ranges she can consistently hit. Broad side shots are all I take with my 30-06 and I'd have her do the same. I don't hand load and probably won't start, but might go with the .270 or .308 with the managed recoil bullets. Will have to check into that. Even if I decide to let her wait a few more years on getting a rifle, I will still take her hunting. She wouldn't be to happy if I didn't take her. Thanks again, Scott Woody

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

No I didn't miss anything. If your daughter helps clean the kill then thats great. Thats what I am talking about. Too many times the kid makes the kill then gets put down for a nap while the work gets done. As far as "out here in the country" I grew up in Fred, Texas so I know all about butchering hogs, beef and deer since I was old enough to hold a knife.

Get real. How many kids do you think know about trigger and breath control, much less have the maturity level to exercise it when a deer is in the sights? A few do yes, but for the most part they don't.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

If you're set on taking her...which it seems you are...What about an in-line muzzleloader. The modern ones have almost no recoil and are deadly as hell past 100yds. You can even load it a little light and practice to make the perfect load. It's great fun, and she will begin to understand how the bullet actually gets the power to leave the barrel.

Just a thought.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

@#$%.! learning how to use this forum.
I totally agree! some kids are ready at a young age and some are not. I find that the kids that play the video game fanticy world stuff are not ready.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

Id say go with a 22-250 or a 223 WSSM loaded with a 60 grain nosler partition, both of these have very little recoil perhaps just a tad more then a 223 rem but will have much better performance on deer. a .223 rem even with a good bullet like thenosler partition still requires almost expertly placed shots, the 22-250 and or 223 WSSM wont increase recoil much but deffinately increase your margin for error.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

While I definetly feel that a .223 is a capeable deer cartridge when loaded with the right bullets I would never reccomend one to a first time shooter/ hunter.

The .243 is a very light kicking rifle. A bolt action with a scope will yield only about 7 - 8 foot pounds of free recoil energy. That is almost nothing. Any one old enough to kill big game should be able to easily handle the recoil of a .243.

An even better choice would be a .257 Roberts. It has almost exactly the same ammount of recoil energy (about 9 foot pounds) but you have the benefit of a larger and heavier bullet.

There is not doubt in my mind that she would be able to comfortably fire a .243 or .257 Roberts. Even on the practice range.


I am not sure what in line ML's Pro Line is shooting but every one I have ever shot kicked a heck of a lot more than a .243. ;) Maybe he is built like a tank. :D

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

No I would not let a 8 year old use a 223 for hunting. what I would do is get a H&R heavy barreld rifle. According to H&R's website it weighs 8lbs. Then get a 3x9x40 rifle scope and a sling I think the rifle would be close to 10 lbs. I do not think this setup would kick too much, and if it does you can put a good recoil pad on it such as alimb savers. Or possibally you could get a 308 use managed recoil rounds and put a mercury recoil reducer in it.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

The problem you are going to have is not so much the caliber, but the size gun your daughter is probably going to require. She will need a small, lightweight rifle so that she can handle it easily. Yet, the smaller and lighter the rifle, the higher the felt recoil.

As for the .223, it is a very nice round. I load my own ammo and have put many, many rounds through it at paper and varmints. That said, I would not feel comfortable using the round on a deer any further than 50-75 yards with any of the ammo I have tested. Hitting the deer is one thing, finding it is another. For a beginning shooter, I would say go with something in the .25 caliber range, such as a .257 Roberts or a .25-06. Both will handle 110-120 grain bullets very well, yet are fairly mild mannered. Of course, I'm basing this off of my .25-06, which is a fairly large rifle. I thought the same thing about 20 guage shotguns one time, until I shot an Ithica ultra-featherlight and got de-stooled when the first dove flew over.

My recommendation would be to get a .223 for her to begin shooting and practicing. Ammo is cheap, and recoil is minimal to non-existant. Then when the time comes, get a larger caliber rifle for deer.

If they made a smaller version of the Thompson Center, you could buy one in .223, then simply buy a new barrel in a largercaliber when the time comes.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

The NEF youth model is available in 7mm-08. Put the "Shooters Friend" Recoild Pad from Cabelas on it and she won't hardly feel any recoil. This pad reduces recoil by 70 percent. It really works. I have one. Both the recoil pad and the youth model 7MM-08. When she grows a little more, you can purchase the adult stock for nearly nothing and its ready for bigger shooters.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

Bigbulls...I load mine light...90 grains, and still get plenty of energy without recoil. I shoot a cheap Traditions in-line, and with 90 grains of powder and 180 grain bullets, it doesn't kick much at all.

I believe it is a lighter recoil than my 243.

I shot my buddies Omega with 150 grains of powder and 240 grain bullets...that's a different story.:D

I am, however, built like a tank. LOL

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

Hey pro line how does that gungroup? I have a Traditions and it prefers 90 gr's with anything I use. Cant beat them guns for the price.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

Doedumper...Mine groups fine. It'll shoot 4" at 100 yards from the bench. Not rifle-type accuracy, but I feel comfortable taking the RIGHT shot at 100yds.

The gun is simple to clean...and works fine. I looked at an Omega or a T/C, but chose this one because it's simpler.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

My daughter, this is her first year hunting and used her 223 with 55gr TBBC and killed 2 deer each ran about 30yds. I agree it is not the best deer caliber but she is small and does not like recoil. So I feel that if she sits with me and we choose deer with nice shots and pass on ones with questionable shots the 223 will be fine. I think it is better to get the kids in the woods before they get interested in other things and don't want to try hunting ..

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

If you are gonna use one...thats the way to do it right there. Picking good shots and good bullets. Pro-line thats about what mine will do. Thats plenty good accuracy for hunting with a ml. I have been shooting the 300 hornady's in mine lately.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

I shoot the 300 Grain Hornady XTP in my T/C Woods rifle. It was the fore runner of the Black Diamond. It will group 2-3 inches at 100 yards. Thats about as good as I can do with any open sighted rifle.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

That bullet does a fine job on deer James.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

.223 is illegal for deer in Kansas. But hey, you could always use a .30 carbine!

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

Never get a 243 maybe a 223 i would perfer any 30 cal.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

Never a .243...maybe a .223??????

Where's the logic in that? A smaller bullet traveling marginally faster makes a .223 better?

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

I would buy her a 223 and take her to the range once or twice a month. Girls either shoot great or for some reason never shoot well at all.
Be prepared to take a second shot on the animal after she shoots. Shecould make a bad shot & get too excited to make a quick second shot? I wish her the best of luck. I know the 223 can do the job.

I would like to see you consider the 25-06 for her, second rifle. The 25-06 will give her a edge over the 223 & 243, for deer hunting. The 25-06 would also be a good back-up deer rife for dad.:) Just incase something everbrokeon your rifle or scope?:)

good luck,

WK

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

I would go with the H7R(New England) Handi Rifle (wieghs 5.25 pounds) in the .243. Bought my wife one (she's 5'0" and 98 pounds) and she had never shot a centerfire rifle. She has taken 2 does with it.

The same rifle in a 7mm-08 with the cabelas recoil pad would probably be ok.

I don't know about the .223 never owned one, never hunted with one.

RE: .223 for 8 yr. old for deer?
 

Just a suggestion, but if I was going to buy a rifle that shoots a .224 bullet I would get the 22/250. It can be used for coyotes with a 45 grain 4000 FPS bullet or down good sized der at 300 yards with a 70 grain at about 3500 FPS. While the .223 is a good round the 22/250 will offer so much more and has the same recoil.