You know what I mean, the .45 IMO is most famous for its "Knock Down power" I dont know about your fancy ammo, but I do believe if you are using fully jacketed round nose bullets (which is what we use in the beretta 9mm in the Marines), I dont see a 9mm bringing me to the ground on the first shot, unless it is a fatal shot, which we allKNOW is not always going to be the case.

by international law the military must use ball ammo (FMJ)... in the civilian ranks that isn't so... a high performance JHP is gonna make a real mess of anything it enters... unlike a FMJ which is meant to just make a nice neat hole and wound channel...

Yes I know all about the ball ammo, I am Air Force. Believe me, I would much rather carry a 1911 on my hip than an M9 since we are forced to use FMJ. However, using modern ammo the 9mm can be just as effective as the 45 ACP. Most people can handle the recoil of a 9mm much better than that of a 45, so they can shoot it better. If you can shoot a weapon well, it increases your confidence, which makes you shoot more, which makes you shoot better etc.

I think guys that put too much confidence in the new ammo for 9's and lighter are overlooking the fact that we don't get to pick the place and time for a dangerous encounter. These rounds just won't penetrate car doors, windshields, steel doors, walls like heavier rounds will.

I generally carry a .40 or .45, with a hollow point in the tube and then alternate FMJ's and hollowpoints. I want the ability to shoot through an object if the BG has cover.

I think some guys watch too much TV. Most handgun shootings occur within 7 yards. As far as a 9mm penetrating windows, car doors etc, maybe you should do a little testing before you form an opinion.

Now this is true and untrue, I have watched ballistic and performance tests and the .45 acp has the ability to penetrate cinder blocks. IMO that means it can go through a car door as well. Now on that same show, it proves that when shooting through automobile glass, that often your rounds are deflected so much, thata human size target is quite safe from a single shot through a windshield. I havent seen these tests with a 9mm though.

Law enforcement tests consistently show that auto glass is the toughest barrier to penetrate and hollow point ammo continues to have problems with the jacket separating from the core and even if they penetrate have come apart and lack significant penetration beyond the glass.

Since the guy who started this thread said he will carry this gun in his truck most of the time, I think it prudent that he consider the ability to shoot through auto glass.

The .40S&W Speer Gold Dot in 180 grain has been tested against automobile glass and doors and has tested well. It passed in a joint test here and passed the FBI test. It is our duty ammo and I also carry it in my off duty weapon. Excellent round.

just to put my two cents in. i will recommend the glock 30. it gives you the sub compact glock size in 45 acp. it holds 10+1. i shot one today and it really doesn't have that much recoil or muzzle flip. i was extremely surprised to find this out. i actually think that the subcompact 40 had more muzzle flip. also i tried out the gun in a concealed carry holster both in the front and the back and it wasn't noticeable at all and i'm skinny. so i would definately recommend the 30. plus i saw some personal defence loads that had been shot and frankly... any person that got shot with one of the wouild about have to be dead or wish they were. they were mean looking to say the least. so there's my $.02.

that's a very good idea and it isn't the first time i've heard it. that's what i would recommend doing too. when i get my cwp that's what i'll do. personally it makes the most sense.