DM, would you trust the 300gr partition on a nice brown bear kicking around 1900-2000fps?

I agree with DM. It might be kinda fun to play around with cast bullets for high volume pursuits like plinking or small game, but for bigger stuff I would stick with bullets made for full throttle expansion. The 300 gr. Barnes X bullets are another very good hunting bullet for this caliber. And the 405 gr. Remington JSP can be purchased in bulk at not much more than the cost of lead. These shoot well in the Marlin Microgroove barreland expand like gangbusters at around 1800 fps MV.

Not without testing them first as i've never used them or seen them used. I'm sure the bear would die, but would it break one down, that is what i'd want to know.

I saw a brown bear shot with a .458 with 350 Hornandys and the bullet never exited the rib cage. Same thing with the 400 grain Speer out of a 45/70. I like more penetration than that on big bears.

BTW, A friend of mine who hunted bears a lot saw a brown bear shot with a .458 with a factory 500 grain soft point on a quartering shot, and that bullet didn't exit either.

Drilling Man

Well, I found my load today. Shooting 45gr of 4198 and 300gr partition, I was astonished at the accuracy of a lever. I was getting around 1MOA. Then at 47gr it started falling apart, getting 2 touching and then flyers 2" away.

Thank you for the sensible responses regarding my question on hard cast projectiles. Using hard cast projectiles in rifles is a new thing for me. My original intention was for plinking as the Marlin has Ballard rifling.

Achieving that sort of accuracy out of my leveraction rifle with lead cast projectiles prompted me to do something different and challenging one Saturday afternoon, go head shoot some rabbits. Five rabbits for five shots. Seeing the length of ploughed up soil made me think these 405gn slugs could possibly be good on a pig. Hence why I asked the question.

I agree with Drilling Man, the only way to know is to conduct a wet newsprint penetration test with these lead projectiles. Just have to accumulate more test media.

For the record, to date I have only ever used 300gn JHPs doing 2140ft/s on deer and pigs. They are the original "one hit wonder".

Now I'm curious to know what the old blackpowder Bear/Buffalo load was for the 45-70 during the 1870s-1880s.

DM, I am confused, I was always told if you want penetraton on big animals, use hard cast even over swift, barnes or partitions. Well at least thats what the mags always say. I can't say I have ever taken an animal with cast.

Those original blackpowder .45-70's used heavy bullets - very commonly 405 grain lead - and pushed to a modest 1200 fps or so.

Original early load for the .45/70 was a 405 grain bullet. The later "infantry rifle" load was a 500 grain RN bullet, at a bit lower velocity, thus .45/70/500. The 405 grain load was downloaded a bit for carbine use, and ended up as the .45/55/405.

If you have ballard type rifleing, why all the worry about "hard cast" bullets? You should be able to get 1800 FPS easily with the correct bullet diameter and lube, along with a gas check. hard bullets tend to fragmnent, softer bullets will hold together and still penetrate well. IME, people worry way to much about bullet hardness!

There isn't a pig alive that your 405 grain bullet won't put down, assuming any sort of decent hit. If you can head shoot rabbits, go shoot some pigs and find out for yourself.

For those who worry about the Microgroove curse, while you are flogging around the Beartooth Bullet site, read Marshall's tech notes on the .444 Marlin. Cast bullets will work well in multigroove barrels if you do a bit of research. Bullet diameter is much more important than hardness, IME.

Thank you Charley.