RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

Ferris it's not a "need" that I feel to burn a Lincoln each time I pull the trigger, I don't think anyone could be so foolish. It's more typical of the American spirit of, "Because that's what I want" as too the reason for being. A Yugo will get you down the highway too the same place as a Z06Vette, but whichone is more fun?I have said on this site many times that the 300Ultra is THE Supermag of choice for those on a budget or have the time/inclination to reload and tweak that mother up to get the most from her. TheUltra is a bargain for the performance dollar spent and no sane person could make a successful arguement otherwise.I just don't have the time or desire to reload anymore and I really like Lazzeroni's ammo, the quality is simply awesome and unquestioned.

Sure my 06 will kill anything in NA, but so will my 22/250 under "perfect conditions". I like to take the "conditions" out of the equation and shoot something much more forgiving. As for the stalking something within 800yds, that's a weak arguement. Try stalking a mature buck that is 500yds away from you in a large, open beanfield that also has 20-30+ additional deer in it between you and that animal... Plus I can cover much more sheer acreage and funnels/crossings from one stand.

"... an overstoked .308 round..." another weak arguement, technically ANY 30 caliber after the 30/30 or the 300Savage can be labled assuch. I can assure you that the ONLY similarities between a Warbird and the 308 "Warhorse" Winchester is their projectiles. The Warbird is doing at 400yds what the 308 does inside of 40yds!!!

"Giggle/bucks"??? I like that one, I'll have to use that. My dad always says, "Farts n giggles"! :DAnd yes I have giggled several times after dumping deer at obscene ranges with my 'birdas if they stood but feet from my loft.
RA

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

I never said that he was hiding anything did I? I simply pointed out that one needs to read the fine print when they start comparing his cartridges against other cartridges.

Any one can make a particular cartridge look better than another cartridge simply by manipulating the "controls" of a test like the line of sight to bore, barel length, and elevation at which it is tested.

Simply put it is certainly a fast cartridge however it isn't everything that it is advertised to be when you compare it on even ground with other 30 caliber magnums.



I can take a standard 300 Winchester magnum and shoot it out of a 27 inch barrel to up the velocity from 3000 to about 3200 fps. Have my line of sight 2 inches above the bore and shoot it at 3000 feet in elevation. Plug this into a ballistics calculator and the numbers look like this for a 300 Winchester magnum.

+ three inches at 175 yards
0 at 280 yards
- 3 inches at 320 yards
- 27 inches at 500 yards.


The Lazzeroni using the same bullet will look like this

+ three inches at 175 yards
0 at 300 yards
- three inches at 350 yards.
- 20 inches at 500 yards


So you only gain 30 yards in a maximum point blank range or +- 3 inches. The Lazzerone gives you very little until you get out to 500 yards and farther.

Just giving real facts on an even keel instead of manipulated facts to make one look better than another.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

What I ment was .308 class not 308 winchester itself. So no its not a weak argument to say overstoaked when they load their rounds to 75k CUP. That's friggen high preasure to get marginally better results then you do with 300 win. I also understand his ammo is second to none, but eek $5 a round.

EDIT: To be fair is should say 308 magnum class.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

Bigbulls do you honestly believe that or are you just quoting paper figures or hypotheticals? The 300Winnie IS a grand ol dame of a caliber but the Warbird (and likewise the 30/378 and 300Ultra for sakes of this conversation) are MUCH more than merely 30yds more capable than the ol 300. Scroll back and look at my actual results with respect too the trajectories and distances of my particular gun. I have NEVER seen (and don't honestly think anyone else has either) seen a 300Win that will shoot a 150grain bullet +2.5" @100yds while only dropping 3.5" at 400yds. Physics says it can't be done, the 300s I have seen can't do it and I know dang well my 300Wby can't do it so please let me know how I can get a 300Winnie to do the same thing the Supermags will do and I will gladly have one by daylight a.m.

One things for sure and as was said, we all get testy when talking about and defendingour favorite calibers! ;)
RA

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

What exactly are you reading where I said a 3.5 inch drop at 400 yards?

Plugging in his published velocities, which is what everyone reads in the adds, and calculating what a 300 Win mag will do out of a 27 inch barrel, at 3000 feet in elevation, and a line of sight 2 inches above the bore.

Using a maximim three inch rise and drop above and below the scopes crosshairs you get the numbers I listed above.

At 400 yards the same bullet (180 grain A-Frame) will be 11 inches below line of sight out of the 300 Winchester. The same bullet fired out of the Warbird will be 7.5 inches below line of sight. A 3.5 inch advantage.

350 feet per second really isn't all that much when you consider everything.

And sorry to say but if you use the same testing criteria that Lazzeroni does with his cartridges on other magnums his super powerful warbird will only have about a 30 yard advantage over the 300 Winchester magnum. This is using a plus or minus three inch rise and fall.

When you keep the testing controls the same with all cartridges these super magnums don't shine nearly as brightly as they do in the ads.

I'm not trying to get testy with anyone about this, I am just saying..... READ THE FINE PRINT.

Of course all of this will vary slightly from gun to gun and load to load but it will be close.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

i'm going to have to agree on this one. the lazzoroni is a great cartridge but i don't see the point in paying so much for it. by no means am i bad mouthing it but i could take 800 yard shots with a handloaded 30-06 if i really wanted to but i don't have the need or the money for something like the lazz.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

99.9 percent of the hunters cannot take advantage of cartridge capabilities of 800 yards or more. The 300 Win Mag provides about at much useful range as most hunters can use. I would never get my monies worth out of one because I won't shoot over 400 yards and very seldom would I even shoot at animals past 300 yards. Just to much chance of a poor hit and a lost animal. Its good food for the Rambo's though. Thats just My opinion so nobody needs to climb down my throat. I have been at it to long to change my views.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

A military trained shooter can shoot up to 700 yards with a .308 if they are good. I'm not saying that the .308 is the perfect long range rifle round, but I do think that the Warbird is overkill.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

But if you had one with a really big muzzle break just think how much of peoples stuff you could blow off of the benches at the range.