Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

if you now about this round . pat yourself on the back. you are now smarter than 90 percent of people. the ballistics on this round are the awesome. the new shock and awe. i m thinking of buying one and need to know if any1 got some info on it. like other than lazzerni with cabers this round?

thank you brad

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

I had the same glowing first impression with the first .30-378 Weatherby I built. Had to have one for myself. Bought an action just for that purpose. After a year or so of shooting other people's rifles in this caliber, however, I decided it was too much of a good thing. An extremely unpleasant firearm to discharge - loud, harsh, lots of muzzle blast. Short barrel life. I finally decided that if it was too far away to kill with a .300 Winchester, I was going to try to sneak closer or pass the shot.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

I dont consider myself as being smart but do know as impressive as the ballisticswarbird are, the 30-378 wby, which by the way has been with us since the 1950's has the same ballistics. Lazzeroni uses moly coated bullets and what reloading data I have seen the loads are over 65,000 psi . Some might disagree but that's my take.

No doubt, the Warbird is one heck of a cartridge, the Lazzeroni rifles are more expensive but are well made. I might have to look into getting one someday.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

Not trying to degrade the cartridge, but I often wonder why someone would want to shoot the beast unless you shooting at elk, moose or grizzly beyond 500yds. There is a such thing as overkill for shooting closer ranges. I believe I'll stick with my 300 win mag its alot more pleasant to shoot and 500yds and under with a decent rest it's always brought the meat home.

I bought a 378weatherby once and it didn't take long to dismiss all those impressive ballistics. At $4 a round it was lets say costing a arm and a leg to shoot. But if you like those big guns and can shoot them with precision then by all means have a blast shooting one.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

I was very impressed with the rifle, until I saw how much they cost. I just cant afford to drop $2000 on a rifle/scope.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

I had read a while back that Lazzeroni is getting these velocities with upwards of 75,000 psi. I can't remember the source thought I wish I could. He is really pushing the envelope IMHO.

He is also getting the published velocities with 27 inch barrels which he offers on only one rifle, the L2005LLR special long range. The rest come with 24, 25, and 26 inch barrels for the long magnums. So there goes 50 - 200 fps right there.

He also gets his published data for the short magnums with a 24 inch barrel but only offers 22 inch barrels on his rifles. So there goes about 125 fps right there.

Another little trick that he does is rather than the standard 1.5 inch line of sight above the bore he computes using a 2 inch line of sight above the bore. this gives him a better edge on paper when comparing his cartridges to everyone elses.

He also computes trajectories at 3000 feet above sea level instead of correcting for sea level like the rest fo the manufacturers. This alone will give him a trajectory advantage over everyone else of 2 - 4 inches when you get out to 500 and 600 yards.

$2000 for a rifle and scope???????????? His rifles with out a scope start at $5900.00 and go up.


So when you really look at the fine print they really aren't as impressive as they would seem.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

Blah blah blah, it's quite plain and simple guys. The round is THE king of 30cals and is simply awesome! What was true 20-30 years ago is as much applicable too what is true 20-30 years from today, who cares we are only concerned with today! The 30-378 is 95% what the Warbird is and all those "technicalities" that were espoused about John Lazzeroni and his methods are pure bunk. They are much more reasonable too the average hunter, if his charts are in deed displayed with 2" above line of bore correlations it is because most of his customers are using larger 30mm tubed, 50+mm bell scopes which obviously are taller than the industry standard 1.5". The temps for velocity given is an even 70 degrees! That doesn't sound like much "hiding" too me. The NP3 plating is quite useful and actually preferred too cut down not only on pressures (75K? come on, few of the loads rarely exceed 64K with 62K being the norm) but also to decrease copper fouling.

Now on with the mans question... is it a great round? Well first I ask, "How many of the above responders actually have a Lazzeroni to begin with?" If you don't then you simply can NOT make any recommendations or comments now can you? Mathematical "assumptions" and the best armchair ballistic "experts" are still not concrete or factual evidence are they? I mean I think I could fly the space shuttle, but I doubt NASA is going to let me just because I slept in a Holiday Inn Express lastnight!!! ;)

This fall will be my 6th season with my Sako TRGS/Lazzeroni Warbird and my best huntin bud is on his5th season with a Savage/Patriot and two other members in our clubs haveaWarbird and a Firebird respectively.I have taken well over 50 animals with it (all but two where whitetails, those other two were a mulie and antelope taken in WY lastyear). The gun is simply AWESOME for "point and click" long range deer hunting and it is like anyother high performance, top performing "toy". As do Ferrari's, Gulfstream jets and unbelievably beautiful women, "SUPERmags" cost more to operate, make alot of noise and aren't applicable too all situations. But I seriously doubt that anyone who is really looking at a Lazz is in the situation where it is/will be his only firearm. When I hunt my long range stands I take the Sako (though I have killed deer as close as 45 yds with and they were just as dead as the ones I've killed over 400yds and neither where blown too bits or even suffered any bruised or damaged meat!) when I am going deep back in the boonies I will dig into the inner-depths of my gunsafe and come out with something a lil more "practical".

Sure it costs $5 to pull the trigger, but I don't care WHAT kind of hunting you are doing, when you consider all the other expenses of the typical hunt even emptying the gun ($20, and yes it's happened when I "herdshoot" several does here in west TN!) is the smallest fraction of the cost of hunting!Filling up your race car with bluefuel seems expensive likewise, but for what it costs to buy, maintain and race that car... filling up the fuel tank/magazine is but a small pittance by comparison. Besides, my philosophy is simply this, "If I don't spend it my wife and kids will"!!!

IMHO all you need is either a 6x24x50PVS Swarovski (which is what I have) or the 6x24x56 Zeiss (which is what I would've gotten had they been out when I got my rifle in 99), a couple boxes of 150 Lazerheads and a quality rangefinder and you my friend are set for ANY long range big game scenario you can come up with! I simply can't wait to take this thing to NM or AZ for elk. I just DARE em to show themselves!!!

Good luck and enjoy the thunderstick if you get one,
RA

ps
Now as for the other calibers, like I said I have a good friend with the Patriot and I love that lil gun as much as he does. I have been around 2 Firebirds in our camp for several years as well and they are no different than arguing the 7mag vs 300mag, they both kill like lightning. The only other one I have been around is a friend of mine who has a large lease in NE Kansas. After taking me on his place in 01 he simply had to have a Lazzeroni for those MONSTER bodied deer as he was used to having had a lease in Carrizo Springs, TX for many years and those deer were noticably smaller than the Kansas brutes he now chases. But he is an older fellow who had a large cancerous tumor removed from under his right shoulder a few years ago and he just can't take recoil like he used to. So he "settled" on the Scramjet. His L2000 is AWESOME and that cartridge dumps those huge Kansas brutes at long range much faster than his trusty ol 7mag Abolt of old.

Recoil wise, it's not as bad as most would have you believe (like I said, how many on here have one?). I have a KDF brake on mine and use hearing protection. I wish I woulda used the protection 20 years ago when I began hunting and the brake allows me to watch the shot and also I don't have to worry about clanging my Swarovski on window sills in my shooting houses when I "torch that mother off" as my guide in WY lovingly referred too it lastyear!

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

Can u still get the Sako and Savage models?

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

No Krat you can't, they can be found from time too time on Gunbroker.com and other such auction sites. Most any custom maker can likewise cut you a Lazz if you want one. The lil Savage is an AWESOME gun now I tell ya. Had I handled one before I got my Sako (they didn't release the Savage until after mine was around) I probably woulda gotten one of them. They are ballistically a 300Wby Mag in a short mag, lightweight, easy handling package. If only they woulda had the Accutrigger...

;)
RA

ps
Oh yeah, Bram you asked about the ballistics. This what I get with my rifle in 50 degree temps at roughly 300ft elevation here in west TN.

150 Lazerhead.
+2.5" @ 100yds with a .5" group.
-3.5" @ 400yds with a 3.5" group.

I don't know how to make it any easier than that!!!

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

If I really felt the need to spend $5 every time I pulled the trigger I'd do it with a .50. Screw paying all that extra cash for a glorified 300 Ultra. 30/06 will kill anything in NA, 300 WM will do it at range, and if you absolutely can't stalk something to get inside 800 yards of it get a 300 ultra. Seriously though if I had the inkling to blast stuff from another hilltop though and lay that kind of cash down on a rifle it will be something allot cooler then an overstoaked .308 round.

Not digging Lazzoroni as the guy makes an awesome product just the giggle/bucks spent factor really isn't there for me like some of the true big bore rifles.

Just my 2 cents.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

Ferris it's not a "need" that I feel to burn a Lincoln each time I pull the trigger, I don't think anyone could be so foolish. It's more typical of the American spirit of, "Because that's what I want" as too the reason for being. A Yugo will get you down the highway too the same place as a Z06Vette, but whichone is more fun?I have said on this site many times that the 300Ultra is THE Supermag of choice for those on a budget or have the time/inclination to reload and tweak that mother up to get the most from her. TheUltra is a bargain for the performance dollar spent and no sane person could make a successful arguement otherwise.I just don't have the time or desire to reload anymore and I really like Lazzeroni's ammo, the quality is simply awesome and unquestioned.

Sure my 06 will kill anything in NA, but so will my 22/250 under "perfect conditions". I like to take the "conditions" out of the equation and shoot something much more forgiving. As for the stalking something within 800yds, that's a weak arguement. Try stalking a mature buck that is 500yds away from you in a large, open beanfield that also has 20-30+ additional deer in it between you and that animal... Plus I can cover much more sheer acreage and funnels/crossings from one stand.

"... an overstoked .308 round..." another weak arguement, technically ANY 30 caliber after the 30/30 or the 300Savage can be labled assuch. I can assure you that the ONLY similarities between a Warbird and the 308 "Warhorse" Winchester is their projectiles. The Warbird is doing at 400yds what the 308 does inside of 40yds!!!

"Giggle/bucks"??? I like that one, I'll have to use that. My dad always says, "Farts n giggles"! :DAnd yes I have giggled several times after dumping deer at obscene ranges with my 'birdas if they stood but feet from my loft.
RA

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

I never said that he was hiding anything did I? I simply pointed out that one needs to read the fine print when they start comparing his cartridges against other cartridges.

Any one can make a particular cartridge look better than another cartridge simply by manipulating the "controls" of a test like the line of sight to bore, barel length, and elevation at which it is tested.

Simply put it is certainly a fast cartridge however it isn't everything that it is advertised to be when you compare it on even ground with other 30 caliber magnums.



I can take a standard 300 Winchester magnum and shoot it out of a 27 inch barrel to up the velocity from 3000 to about 3200 fps. Have my line of sight 2 inches above the bore and shoot it at 3000 feet in elevation. Plug this into a ballistics calculator and the numbers look like this for a 300 Winchester magnum.

+ three inches at 175 yards
0 at 280 yards
- 3 inches at 320 yards
- 27 inches at 500 yards.


The Lazzeroni using the same bullet will look like this

+ three inches at 175 yards
0 at 300 yards
- three inches at 350 yards.
- 20 inches at 500 yards


So you only gain 30 yards in a maximum point blank range or +- 3 inches. The Lazzerone gives you very little until you get out to 500 yards and farther.

Just giving real facts on an even keel instead of manipulated facts to make one look better than another.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

What I ment was .308 class not 308 winchester itself. So no its not a weak argument to say overstoaked when they load their rounds to 75k CUP. That's friggen high preasure to get marginally better results then you do with 300 win. I also understand his ammo is second to none, but eek $5 a round.

EDIT: To be fair is should say 308 magnum class.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

Bigbulls do you honestly believe that or are you just quoting paper figures or hypotheticals? The 300Winnie IS a grand ol dame of a caliber but the Warbird (and likewise the 30/378 and 300Ultra for sakes of this conversation) are MUCH more than merely 30yds more capable than the ol 300. Scroll back and look at my actual results with respect too the trajectories and distances of my particular gun. I have NEVER seen (and don't honestly think anyone else has either) seen a 300Win that will shoot a 150grain bullet +2.5" @100yds while only dropping 3.5" at 400yds. Physics says it can't be done, the 300s I have seen can't do it and I know dang well my 300Wby can't do it so please let me know how I can get a 300Winnie to do the same thing the Supermags will do and I will gladly have one by daylight a.m.

One things for sure and as was said, we all get testy when talking about and defendingour favorite calibers! ;)
RA

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

What exactly are you reading where I said a 3.5 inch drop at 400 yards?

Plugging in his published velocities, which is what everyone reads in the adds, and calculating what a 300 Win mag will do out of a 27 inch barrel, at 3000 feet in elevation, and a line of sight 2 inches above the bore.

Using a maximim three inch rise and drop above and below the scopes crosshairs you get the numbers I listed above.

At 400 yards the same bullet (180 grain A-Frame) will be 11 inches below line of sight out of the 300 Winchester. The same bullet fired out of the Warbird will be 7.5 inches below line of sight. A 3.5 inch advantage.

350 feet per second really isn't all that much when you consider everything.

And sorry to say but if you use the same testing criteria that Lazzeroni does with his cartridges on other magnums his super powerful warbird will only have about a 30 yard advantage over the 300 Winchester magnum. This is using a plus or minus three inch rise and fall.

When you keep the testing controls the same with all cartridges these super magnums don't shine nearly as brightly as they do in the ads.

I'm not trying to get testy with anyone about this, I am just saying..... READ THE FINE PRINT.

Of course all of this will vary slightly from gun to gun and load to load but it will be close.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

i'm going to have to agree on this one. the lazzoroni is a great cartridge but i don't see the point in paying so much for it. by no means am i bad mouthing it but i could take 800 yard shots with a handloaded 30-06 if i really wanted to but i don't have the need or the money for something like the lazz.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

99.9 percent of the hunters cannot take advantage of cartridge capabilities of 800 yards or more. The 300 Win Mag provides about at much useful range as most hunters can use. I would never get my monies worth out of one because I won't shoot over 400 yards and very seldom would I even shoot at animals past 300 yards. Just to much chance of a poor hit and a lost animal. Its good food for the Rambo's though. Thats just My opinion so nobody needs to climb down my throat. I have been at it to long to change my views.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

A military trained shooter can shoot up to 700 yards with a .308 if they are good. I'm not saying that the .308 is the perfect long range rifle round, but I do think that the Warbird is overkill.

RE: Lazzeroni caliber 7.82 (.308) Warbird
 

But if you had one with a really big muzzle break just think how much of peoples stuff you could blow off of the benches at the range.