accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Craig Boddington is recently on record saying that today's rifle manufacturers need to raise the bar on accuracy..... That (get this) MOA IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE FOR A PRODUCTION RIFLE.

How many of you believe that today's production rifles are MOA shooters out of the box?????

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

The vast majorityof the rem 700's,sako's,tikkas,a-bolts and howasthat I have fired were honest MOA shooters with proper handloads.Some model 70's were as well as some ruger 77s and some mark Vs.When semi autos,pumps and levers are included,mostdid notdo MOA.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Thanks Stubble.....I meant bolt actions only and didn't say that.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

It's been said before, but I think there are a wholelot more MOA rifles out there than there are MOA shooters.


firstshot
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Make your first shot count!

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Three factors involved
1. Rifle
2. Ammo
3. Shooter

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Well at the risk of getting bashed heavily I will say with the right factory load and me on a good day...all of my 700's and even my Vanguard will shoot moa or less. Not everytime..but when im on they will do it. My 700's have build dates from 83-04 and the Vanguard is from early 80's. It was a pleasant surprise after getting the bolt assembly fixed on it.


I agree with cma..if they wont do moa or close....its time to send em on down the road. Probably splitting hairs for hunting accuracy...but if ya gonna pay the money you better get what will make ya happy...if not happy send it on and try again..cause somebody will almost always be happy to give you your money back on a used or new gun.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

I see a good percentage of .223, 22-250 etc shooting MOA without modifications but not many at all in big game cartridges. It may be the flinch and not gun, but it seems the bigger the cartridge the worst the accuracy from a factory gun.

I lean toward the gun because a close friend bought a Model 700 in 300 RUM that shot 4 " out of the box with 2 different premium ammos. He sent it back to Remington and they returned it after trying to improve it. With groups now running 2.5 to 3.5 inches. He took the gun to a local gunsmith had the action blueprinted new Krieger barrel stock bedding etc. Alot of money later he now shoots 3/4 inch groups with the same factoryammo.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Small bores vibe the barrell less; I think it helps to weigh larger bullets for handloading. I am also not nearly the rock steady, eagle eye shooter that I was 30 years ago. Creak creak.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

I'll start a new thread and ask the question differently

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

i agree with boddington, if the manufacturers made more "out of the box" accurate MOA rifles then id have one less thing to blame my misses on. Pretty much what he is saying couldnt hurt.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

I am not sure about the measurments and don't really care to keep up with them.

Just speaking from exp. I have and can take my Rem. 700, .270, shooting 130gr Winchester Ballistic Tips and put three bullets in the same hole, with the entire hole only being the size of a dime or smaller at 200yds.

Yes, It was measured with a range fider.
Yes, Its off a rest.
Yes the shots were back to back, with only about 3 mins for the barrel to cool.

If I can do this, I don't see why this rifle wouldn't be considered accurate. And no, no work done to the rifle, just right out the box.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Typical 700 Remington.;)IMO

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Yep, typical internet report. Boy, I wish I was headin down to SC. I would like to put up say 5 bills on that report.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

My 30-06 shoots under 2 inches at 100 yards and under 3 inches at 200 yards. I have never seen a deer that wouldn't fall to a rifle with a 5-6" group at 200 yards, so that is plenty good enough for me.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

I agree with first shot. I'm 30 years old now and learned to shoot and reload from my Dad & Uncle. In the 15 years I've been reloading and taking trips to the range I've seen a ton of so called great shots show up to zero their guns. They come with a 30-06 and a box of Core-Lokts. They put up a target and start shooting. They shoot at 25 yards and zero their guns and then move to 100 yards. They shoot a 3 shot group and if it isn't an inch they begin to say foul words and call the gun a POS! Over the years I've seen my Dad give a little help to these guys and shoot their rifles for them especially since we live in a small town he seems to know everyone. Anyway he shoot the rifle and maybe it shoots 1.5" and this was from their 3" group. My Dad shot benchrest for a long time and is an excellent marksmen. He has bought countless guns from shooters saying it won't group and in the end showed them that it was the shooter not the gun. We had a conversation about this a few weeks ago and in all his years 50+ he said he only had 2 guns that wouldn't group very well. #1 a post 64 model 70 Featherweight in 270 Win. and a crudely customized Mauser 30-06. He gave the model 70 away and redid the Mauser. It will shoot the eyes out of a hawk flying now. It's a 6.5-06.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

My 3 factory Rugers 2-77 Mk IIs and a #1 all shoot sub MOA some with reloads and some with factory ammo. I am very happy with their performance both my 300 WSM and .223 Both 77s shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 yards.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Hate to doudt someone i dont know but i would have to see that.and honestly i would bet against it.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

As far as i,m concerned the guy whom hired him,out to go jump in a lake. Col. this and col. that i hear all the time.He should have stayed were he use to be.He is so wishy washy,and doesn,t know tiddley winks about what he,s talking about.IMHO. vangunsmith

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Many of today's rifles are capable of MOA accuracy especially with the quality factory ammo. Its takes allot of trial and error for an experienced reloaded to match or exceed the performance of today's premium factory loads. In reading posts on this and other message boards, it seems many will save and spend big bucks for a quality rifle than top it with cheap rings and poor quality scope and wonder why the rifle won't group. Save time and money, purchase quality the first time and stay away from the cheap stuff.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

I won't question Craig Boddington about his style of hunting but let's be honest. For big game hunting a 1 MOA gun really isn't nessasary. Take a piece of trash gun that only shoots a 2 MOA group and push it out to 200 yards. Is it useless at that range when hunting deer? Of course not, it's still putting a bullet within 2 inches of your point of aim. The last time I checked a deer's heart was a lot bigger than 2 inches.
I've posted before where I used a 30-30 lever with a 4x scope on a 225 yard shot on a deer. It's a 3 inch MOA gun at best but I know how to shoot. I figured that a 3 inch MOA gun at 200 yards should put all of it's shots in a 6 inch circle. For arguements sake a deer's heart is about a 4 inch circle and it's lungs an 8 inch circle. Not exact but good enough. I aimed for the lungs (lethal in my book) and put a nice hole in it's heart as a bonus.
Now it's a much different story if you want to do headshots on a squirrel from 200 yards. Go ahead and get your 1 MOA gun, I'll sneak up and use my shotgun.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

I am not sure I would want to have to pay the price for a factory rifle that anyone can shoot one inch or better groups. You are talking custom grade guns now and someone is going to pay for the extra time and attention. I am happy with a gun that will group one inch or even 1 1/2 inches with my better loads. The great majority of Remington, Ruger and Savage rifles that I have owned would do an inch if you put in the time on load development and research and heck, that was half the fun.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

DURAMAXLT & BIGCOUNTRY

No skin off my back. "Typical internet report". Typical case of diarrhea of the keyboard.

I think that some people post just to get their post count up. I have nothing to prove to anyone about my shooting, my shooting speaks for itself. As for my rifle being that accruate, look up the history of the 700 rifles.

If I am not mistaken this thread was about the accuracy of today's rifles from our own experiences, not rather or not you beleive I can shoot.

If you notice I even put idiot proof tags on my post "yes it was off a rest...yes,...." Just b/c I knew that someone would get a good case of "he isn't better than me" and have nothing else to do so they type some **** about someone that they have no clue of their capibilties.

"Hate to doubt someone I don't know." Good quote. Stick to it.

Who are any of usto say that anyone can't shoot, hunt, this, that. If you have never witnessed it?I was reading the thread about the boy posting about his dad shooting deer running at 300-400 yards. If you noticed I made no reply.Arethe doubts in my mind? Yes, but did I just type away? Nope. Why not? B/c I am not there to witness it. Maybe ifmore people were like this then hunters could actually sticktogether and orgs such as PETA wouldn't be gaining such ground.

And thething is,I bet ifyou read every post on thisweb site, that its some of the same people that have nothing, but negative remarks to just about every thread they post in.

Both may go ahead and type away at some more insults they will get no response. Thanks for your concern though.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

You are leaving out a very significant factor,that being shooter error in the field.Sure you will get 6" groups at 200 yards off of a bench with a 3MOA rifle,but in the field those groups will grow,and it won't take much shooter error for those 6" groups to become 9" groups which can easily result in a wounded animal.The more accurate that your rifle is,the more shooter error that you can make and still make a clean kill.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Sorry StrutnBPS, that I hit a nerve. I guess, my question is, if you have nothing to prove, why would you post your results? No matter, just trying to make some quick easy money.

Take it easy, I don't think anyone on here wants to cause you harm or ill will. Just calling you out. Most of us have heard these reports before by many people but thenwhen it comes to proving, they always choke.And as someone that has owned dozen or so 700's, I know the history pretty well.There are a few on here, I don't want to make that bet with. Haven't quite figured out Stubble just yet, but I ain't willing to put up 500 dollars to see if he could take his rifles and hit subMOA every time. There are a few others, I wouldn't either. But he puts high dollar into his rifles and are hand tweaked.

Congradulations on your gun. Are you close to Spartanburg? Maybe we can shoot together within the next year. I usually make it to Darlington in the Spring. And see my family sometime or another. I will bring my checkbook. ;)

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

This is why I posted my results. My results were stating my point and experince with out of the box rifles.

I am 4hrs + from Spartanburg, so thats a no go. However, I drive through Darlington every other day. No nerve hit (only by you). I haven't been a member of this forum that long, but since I joined I have read just about every post that is on the first and second pages of the deer and guns pages. It just gets me of how many posts I have read where "hunters" are putting down other "hunters", when they live 1,500 miles away and have no clue of what the person is capable of. I am sure that if I posted that I was a retired military sniper that had four gold shooting medals under my belt, along with 25 kills at 1,000 yards, that there would still be people who would mouth off. (No I am not a retired sniper, just a point).

Don't get me wrong, some are far fetched and I would have to see them to beleive them. Calling out, seems to me you may have an ego problem? I also read some of your current posts and see where you are a religion man? If this is so, and you are Christian (not for sure if you are or not), but if you are, wouldn't bringing out thecheck book and makeing a bet be kinda wrong? Not for sure if you read the same Bible I do, but mine says that you shouldn't take chances, that you should hold the faith that God will provide?

If I met up with you and you seen m shoot those results with your own eyes, I am sure that they would be followed by "You got lucky", "It was rigged". And if not, you would get on here and make a post about seeing the results, then some ignorant quick fingered poster would "Now both of your are lieing, prove it to me." Its a never ending battle.

Not trying to jump ya bones or send any wrong messages either, I just ask you and every other "hunter", and person, not to be ignornant and call someone that you have no clue of their capabilities a lier. Would it make you feel better if I said that I made it all up? B/c if it would, I will make a post saying that I did. Then you and everyone else can make a post on howthey "knew" I was a lier. [&:]Either way I have nothing to prove to ya and wish ya the best of luck on the range and in the woods.

Man I will be glad when Sept. 15th gets here, I have too much time on my hands along with many of ya'll.;)

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

It was my surprise that He'd think that today's standard in accuracy was 1MOA.... If any of you have returned a gun to Ruger or even Remington because of accuracy isues you soon learn that 3" at 100 yards is the standard they repair to. Not 1" /100 yards. Yes, it's true that most rifles shoot better and in some cases much better but it was my question to see how many agreed with me that we haven't operated on a 1 MOA standard at all and now here's an outdoor writer saying we need to "raise the bar".....when IMO we're not at the 1" level yet.

It's my desire to see if others agree that Mr. Boddington is this far out to lunch about today's production rifle accuracy or if he's been spoiled by numerous custom builds and assume standard rifles are the same.

It's my assertion that his writings are not aimed at me because he's not in touch with the shooting world I live in.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

I think like most upper elite of anything, from the real tree outdoor team to primos to John Barshness, they have far separated themselves from reality long ago. We strive to shootlike them, kill deer like them, and are usually disappointed in the end bringing ourselves back down to reality.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Finally Mark, I knew you had some good knowledge in you.

I agree with you 100% on that one. BUT one thing that you need to realize is that these celeb "Hunters" are hunting on the best land money can lease/buy, shooting the best bows/rifles their sponsors make.

I made a post on this subject on another forum that I am a member of also. Think about this.....how many deer hunting tv shows can you remember that you have seen recently that wasn't shot in IL, TX, Iowa, or Kansas? If you watched the deer hunting shows, you would think there were no deer in any other states. I know that this area produces the biggest bucks, but is that what hunting is about? To go to a place where the common deer is 160'' and walk around like cattle? I mean, come on, I could even go to those states on their land and kill monster bucks. I would like to see some of them come to SC and shoot a 160'' class deer. We have them, but not walking around like cattle. you have to actually HUNT them.

So what I am getting at is that people have "false idols". One of my biggest HUNTING idols is my uncle. I have seen him hunt places that no would else could get results and he kill wall hangers. He is a guy that doesn't own the most expensive rifle/bow/gun, doesn't hunt on the best land in the grain belt, but still produces record book deer year after year. Is it luck? Maybe. But it is funny that most of these tv "hunters" have to travel to the "deer cattle" states to make the record books.;)

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Well i don't think that these hunters get there by luck. I'm sure most of the tv hunters used to be average guys that hunted in average places. People are quick to put down television hunters skills or lack of skills because the hunts that they participate in on tv are often "easier" than those that we participate in. But who's to say they don't hunt more average places on their own? who knows.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

UT I have talked personally with a few. And every one of them tell me the same thing. Got there by being in the right place at the right time.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Well, I am one of those guys that were called out due to the accuracy of my shooting with my rifle. So here it is. I have a 700 Scendero in 7mm Rem Ultra Mag. I am sub MOA at 200 yards and MOA at 300. It depends on what kind of day I am having when I am shooting at 300 whether it is every time. I have high quality optics on my gun also.

And by the way....I can use the money. Anyone who wants to call me out...I live in Breaux Bridge, Louisiana and I have a range we can go shoot at....please bring your five bills.....

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

See Stone, it wasn't because of what you shoot but your history of the questions you ask. I mean on more than 3 occasions, I ahve tried to help you when you asked advise about "your unhappiness" with the accuracy of your RUM. And asked goodbeginner questions.So it makes it hard to believe all the sudden its a tack driver. But glad you finally have it dialed in.

I pray, you made it thru the hurricane pretty well and all your familyis well.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Ahhhh.....but if you were really reading wellbigcountryyour would have known that my rifle was shooting well before I started getting rounds reloaded for me and it took a while to get the reload that I was looking for. BUT you automatically decided that I couldn't shoot as well as the results that I was getting once I found the load. It may have been a misunderstanding on your part but isn't that the point of not calling someone out if you do not know them?????

As far as the huricane.....I made it fine....I was well west of ground zero and had only 60 mph winds.....but just remember guys what you are seeing on the news is only what they can put on the air. It is actuallymuch worst than what they are showing on the news......there is dead bodies floating all over in New Orleans....they have basically pushed them aside to get to the people that are still alive......Volunteer private boats are being brought into N.O. to help rescue. From the talk I am getting from four of our company boats that are there is that they are shifting from trying to save N.O. to just getting everyone out....the levees will not hold much longer and this is the actual reason they are getting the people out of the Super Dome and moving them to Houston.

The worst part is the looters are shooting guns at the rescue boats like they own the city now and they also have people that need to be rescued shooting at the rescuers because they are not getting to them fast enough....All of our boats are having to carry guns to protect themselves......It is not a good situation at all....and it will get worst.

Did anyone watch the Larry King last night? Goes to show you a dumb A$$ mayor....We are about to lose all of N.O. 80% or the houses and business' have been lost and they are losing more and more every min. When Larry King asked how long it would take for N.O. to get back to normal....his answer was 4 to 8 weeks.....LOL.....more like years.....there are parishs which in every other state are counties but they don't exist anymore.....Pray for everyoneit is going to get worst.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Wow, I can't believe all that is going on there. Goes to show ya guys, things can get bad at a moments notice. I work with alot of people from India, and they all the time quesiton when I would ever need to protect myself. Well, this shows.

As far as the other thing Stone, not exactly but no use in getting into it.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

I believe that rifles out of the box today are more accurate than most people that shoot them.Why because most hunters don't even pick them up untill a couple weeks before hunting season.If you work with one and find the right loads that the individual rifle likes they will shoot close to moa or better.
I only have factory rifles and each one will shoot better than it takes to kill game.Why because I am at the range shooting one to three days a week,why because I love to shoot.
Example of practice,a fellow had me to mount a scope on his rem 270 this morning took it to the range and zeroed it in to 300 yds,will he shoot it before going hunting? I doubt it if so probably a 3 shot group at 100 yds.
I had one of my best days at the range this morning shooting 3 of my rifles,they are all factory rifles,the 260 has had nothing done to it except adjusting the triger,the savage 10 fp has had a bedding job because the heavy barrel would fall down in the fore arm when you laid it in a rest,the rem sps is a new one with trigger adjusted,trying to work up loads for.Took pics of the best groups to show (bragg ) could I repeat these I really don't know untill I try,but the .154 in group is the best group that I have shot in all my years of shooting at 300 yds.Hope it don't take me another 50 + years to get another one even twice that big.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Wow....No digs about his shooting or calling him a liar......man this is a first....good shooting Herman....the last time I posted about groups that were actually worst than yours they digged me saying I needed to be a competition shooter if my Sendero could shoot good 1" groups at 300 yards.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Well, carefully handloading a 223, 22-250, and 260 is pretty different than factory ammo out of a RUM. There's one thing in getting the occasional one hole group and doing every time at will is completely another. I have got groups like that too with my custom 300RUM, but I sure could'nt pull that off every time I go to the range which is what vapor was leading to I think. Thats the reason I wouldn't report that I could do it.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Have to agree with bigcountry,if I could do that on a consistant bases I would be hard to beat.But if anyone shoots enough and tunes his rifle up he is going to ocassionally get some tight groups.
I don't care anything about compition shooting I just shoot to pleasure myself.I go to the range to have fun and if I can I help others.And hope each of you have as much fun as I have.
And speaking of factory loads if you get the right ones they will shoot very good to.
A couple months ago a fellow liked the way my rem 30/06 shot talked me into tradeing it for a Browning stalker in 7 mag I had never seen it or shot it before but he said it would drive tacks using factory loads which I doubted untill I zeroed it in and shot the first 3-shot group with it.Think he was telling the truth.

RE: accuracy of centerfire rifles.....be honest now
 

Truer words were never spoken.I did shootone .080" group at 100 yards with one of my 300ultramagsbut my average group with that rifleis closer to 3/4" with my hunting loads.As such if someone asks how accuratethat rifle is,I will tell them 3/4" becauseI amsure that I can shoot a few consecutive3/4" groups to prove it to them.