sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

sorry ive been asking so many noobish question, because the fact is, im a monster gun noob. haha. anyway, im just wondering if when you sight in at the bench then stand up and shoot, will you be off again? or is the scope still sighted in? i was shooting pretty good (for me at least) on the bench today but then i stood up and it seemed like i was shooting considerably lower while standing. so the basic question is, depending on what position you are in, will your shot go different places even if your aimed at the same point.

thanks

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

From doing exactly what you did, I can almost always see differences in confirmed zeros. I don't shoot anything less than 200 yards and at 200 yards the differences in zeros are small, on the order of a couple inches worst case scenario for me anyway.

IMHO the difference is often to the recoil differences of leaning into the gun vs "free recoil" of standing. I find that my zeros differ the most between standing and all the others.

Of course your offhand shooting groups will be worse, maybe much worse and it all can be caused by poor trigger control trying to grab what looks good vs accepting the wobble and squeezing through it.

End thoughts--- if you are looking through the center of your scope in all positions and at 100 yards I"d bet the total difference in zeros from all positions should be on the order of 2 inches or less.

Jeff

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

As long as you don't shoot from a hard surface when sighting in there should be no change in zero. You may hold the rifle differently when it is not rested, if so, you'll need to correct that. [8D]

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

There should be no difference if sight alignement and sight picture are consistent when using open or iron sights. When using a scope there may be a variance with parallax. American made scopes are adjusted for "0" parallax at 150 yards. The European counterparts are normally parallax free to 100 yards. Beyond these parallax settings, any movement of your head behind the scope can make a difference in the positioning of your reticle resulting in a floating image. To eliminate this problem you must be very consistent in your setup centering you eye directly behind the scope, stay within the parallax parameters of your scope or purchase a scope with AO, adjustable objectives to eliminate parallax at any yardage.
Parallax: a condition in which the image of an object at a certain distance does not fall precisely on the reticle plane

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

Slamfire - you have hit on an aspect of shooting that many folks overlook. If you sight in off of sandbags, let's say, 2" high at 100 yards. You have a factory rifle that has fore-end pressure - ie. not free floated. The rifle, shooting from a Harris bipod, might be 10" high at 100 yards. And might shoot low and left from a tight sling. Stiffer heavier barrels with free floated bedding are usually pretty good about holding a consistent point of impact from different positions - and skinny barrels fitted to stocks with a pressure point out near the fore-end are the worst.

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

this months guns and ammo magazine handle this question perfectly. i would sugest buying/reading it due to the 5 pages it would take for me to type it to you

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

Shooting low free hand and perfect on the vise tells me you are pulling down instead of staight on the trigger. You may be putting to much finger on it as well. All of use jerk triggers which is why we always brag about our bench shots but hardly evey brag about about our off hand prowness.

Try using your last knuckle of your shooting finger only on the trigger and squeezing the trigger instead of pulling it. By last knuckle I mean the pad of the last part of your trigger finger. Also waste some rounds finding out how much creep to take up before you sqeeze off the round. This will get rid of at least two three inches of your group.

Good luck sounds like you are on your way!!! No noob anymore. :)

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

if your point of impact is changing it is not the gun. it is most likely you and your scope. if you are only shooting pretty good off the bags i am almost sure it is you moving not the point of impact. if you have a scope that the point of aim changes when you move your head a little the scope is useless for any precision. this is the whole idea for buying a good scope. the better the scope the less parallax error. with a good scope you do not have to be consistent in your setup nor do you have to center your eye directly behind the scope. with a low end scope the parallax error can get out of hand with any change in the way you look threw the scope. a cheap scope would work fine for a deer because you have giant kill zone. but say shooting at a squirrel the kill zone is about an inch so you want the precision. most anybody can learn to shoot good with the right equipment.:)

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

diff pressures on check pad, foregrip, eye position sling weight, sand bag pressure all changes the POI. if you sight in your gun one way the POI will be the same that way every time (theroetically, spelling?). I always sigh tmyne in on he bench, then go to free hand and see what the diff. is. seeing how most all my guns are fired from the offhand possition. only a few are sighted in with the bi-pod, and those are the distance rifles.

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

When you stood up (unless you raised your target) you changed your shooting angle to downhill. When you shoot downhill, your bullet never goes ballistic (never travels upwards against gravity towards your line of sight) so it starts to fall as soon as it leaves the barrel. Depending on your zero range, scope height, and range to target, the point of impact can drop quite a bit.

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

CZ2506 i don't really know how to break the news to you but every bullet, from every gun, ever made starts to drop the very instant if leaves the barrel. and believe it or not your point of impact will be slightly higher shooting down hill.

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

i thought the bullet raises before it falls...

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

Only because the scope (or sights) are angled a little downhill relative to the bore.

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

and the downhill, siting to standing isnt a great enough of a drop to effect the bullet unless it is an extremely long shot. Or atleast thats what i have always been told. you have to have a nice downhill shot for any given effect

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

MA maybe you should start reading something other than Guns & Ammo for a change. Like a physics textbook. If your line of sight down a scope is level the bullet leaving the barrel has to rise to intersect the line of sight. Since the air pressure on all surfaces of the bullet are equal, this upward movement against gravity is caused by thrust. The bullet continues to overcome the force of gravity until it reaches the apex of its trajectory (the highest point above line of sight). At this point gravity starts to pull the bullet down.
If you're shooting at an angle where the the barrel is level and the scope is pointed downhill the bullet starts to fall as soon as it leaves the barrel. When a bullet starts to drop, gravity pulls it down at a constant rate of 32 ft/ sec^2 whether it's at the muzzle or the apex of the trajectory. Since a bullet fired downhill or level won't have traveled the distance to the apex of a bullet fired uphill, it will will hit the ground after less time. That's why you need to holdover on a downhill shot.
Clear as mud?

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

crystal =) use this http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/grav.html

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

CZ2506 YOU ARE STARTING TO MAKE YOURSELF LOOK SILLY. YOU DON"T HAVE THE SLIGHTEST IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. HERE IS A GOOD PLACE TO USE THIS LINE AND IT GOES LIKE THIS. DO YOU REALLY UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING YOU KNOW.[:'(]

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

CZ2506 nothing personal but you set yourself up on this one. here's an example. i'm driving down the road in my truck. using the gas pedal for thrust as you call it. i got equal pressure on all sides. how come my truck didn't float off into space. and yes i do like to read guns and ammo but not for silly things like this. maybe you should pick up a copy. man i can't wait to tell the guys about this one.:D:D:D:D

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

Roscoe,
I found out about the sling changin' the point of impact in the most embarrisin' way. I was visitin' my Dad after about a 7 year absense, he took me pasture griz huntin' with his new Mossberg Chuckster. I carried the rifle and he carried the glasses. As hog huntin' goes he spotted one when we were in the middle of a hay field, and it was in the adjoinin' one. It was about a 150 yard shot so I sat down and got into the sling. He said "You can't shoot from out here lets get up ti the fence and rest the rifle". Now I'd only been huntin' Caribou twice and elk 4 times since the last time I saw him. Not to mention speed goats and mulies in open country. To make a long story short I fired about 5 times and he kept sayin' "Low". Finally I emptied the clip, and we walked over to the chuck which humped up on the second shot. It was pretty sick so he stomped it's head and threw in into the hole. Then he took me to his rest, where I shot a 1.5 group at 100 yards. Then I got into the sling, and shot three shots into an even nicer inch, but all about 6 inches low. [:o]

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

CZ2506- you are completely wrong.

Shooting uphill or downhill will raise your point of impact not lower it, IE if you are shooting uphill or downhill, your rifle will shoot high.


Scopes, irons etc....

If the scope is adjusted so its parallex free- most hunting scopes are supposed to be free of prrallex at 100 yards and beyond, it shouldn't matter how you hold the rifle. Unfortunately, on alot of scopes, you have to go a ways beyond 100 yards before parallex disappears. Rimfire scopes often have an adjustable objective lens so that the scope can be adjusted free of parallex at ranges short of 100 yards.

With iron sights, it matters a lot how you position yourself behind the rifle. For shooting a rifle from a bench with iron sights I lock my cheekbone against the back of my right thumb to get a consistant cheekweld. When shooting highpower matches, I usually have to adjust my sights down about 2 minutes when shooting from a sitting position as my eyes are much higher up on the rifle than if I'm shooting prone or standing. If I were gumby and had unlimited flexibility in my neck and back I would be able to get the same cheekweld as with standing, but I'm not, and most people aren't as well.

A way of looking at open sights is thinking about shooting a bow with a peep sight. In order to get comnsistant groupings, the eye, and sights need to be on the same plane every time. How archers do this is by using the same anchoring point every time. If an archer were to anchor on their earlobe with one shot, then on their chin or cheek the next, even with a peep sight, the shots will not be consistant.

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

MA-- read your post (and others). did some research. went outside and shot a crow. ate it. from here on i'll follow grandpa's advice. "Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you're stupid than to start talking and remove any doubt they may have had"

RE: sighting in for different positions of shooting?
 

hay CZ i have been waiting for your come back. that was a good one. was your crow medium or well done. just picking a little. this is just a place to have a little fun and poke at one another. it a great site to pick up a few things also. see ya ma :)