Basic caliber question?
 

I really just started getting into hunting and have a 30-30. I wanted a more powerful rifle for out west or for bigger game that will shoot longer distances but I don't even know what "30-06" "270" or "30-30" really mean. Every book on guns I find is for the knowledgeable individual- no guns for dummies book that i can find. Can anyone give me a brief description of what these numbers/calibers mean or point me in the right direction?

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

"Dummies" shouldn't be handling firearms. Sorry, but I couldn't resist. Hey, you opened the door for that one (ha,ha).:D
Anyway, 30-30 is a 30caliber bullet using approx. 30grains of blackpowder (back when it was developed). 30-06 is, again, a cartridge using a 30 calibur bullet, and was developed about 1906. The .270 Win. uses bullets of .277 diameter (caliber - more or less). It was developed by Winchester by necking down the 30-06 cartridge case to use .277 diameter bullets.
One thing to remember, there is no logic to the naming of most of our cartridges.
I would recommend you get the following books to read, and they should be a big help.
Check out your local library too.
a: Cartridges of the World (look for latest edition - softcover)
b: Book of the Rifle by Jim Carmichel
c: The Hunting Rifle by Jack O'Connor
d: Popular Sporting Rifle Cartridges by Clay Harvey (softcover)

Have fun!

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

Of the three you mentioned, I'd go with 30-06.....I've taken more than a few deer past 400yd. open sites with this cal.

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

Are you saying you shoot at deer at 400 yds with open sights? The bead would completely cover any deer out that far and make a precise shot total fluke I would think. I'm sure its done in competition but why risk wounding a deer with a shot like that?

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

400 yards with open sights seems like a great way to wound an animal. 30-06 has a good bit of drop at that range, not to mention a deer with the nekkid eye at range has to be pretty small.
The 30-06 was developed in 1903 and adopted by the army in 1906 and is a .30 caliber, so its called the 30-06.
the 30-30 AND 30-06 shoot the same bullet. The 30-06 does it faster and has better range. You can also get more loads in the 30-06 than the 30-30. The .30 caliber bullet measures .308 and a 270 bullet measures .277. I would recommend picking up cartridges of the world, its an older book but a good one. My personal favorite cartridge is the 270winchester short mag or 270 wsm. Nice flat shooting (means it dont drop much) deer/antelope/goat rifle and enough ump to take elk with the right bullet selection. It doesnt have much kick in my Winchester model 70 featherweight rifle and i just love it.

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

If you are looking for a GOOD standard bullet for out here in the West. Then why not go with either a 30-06 or a 7 Mag. The 7 STW Shooting Times Western is one hell of a round here in the West Texas Southern New Mexico part of the globe.


It all comes down to what you can handle and shoot well. A 270 Win. will kill anything in these parts. I shoot a little farther than some folks here and a whole lot shorter distances than others here.

Hunting is all about waiting for that one shot.

I guess I am rambling on here .

So anything from the 270 and up cal. Will do just fine here.

hunter338

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

Cartridge Designations for Dummies

Nothing standard in US nomenclature about cartridge names. Modern cartridges are named after everything in the world.
Older black powder cartridges made some sense:
.45/70/500: a cartridge firing a .45 caliber bullet over 70 grains of powder, with a 500 grain bullet.
This system made a lot of sense, but it is obselete.

European cartridges generally named metricly:
7x57, 6.5x55, 7.62x54R: respectivly, a 7 millimeter bullet in a case 57 millimeters long, rimless, a 6.5 millimeter bullet in a case 55 millimeters long, rimless, and a 7.62 millimeter bullet in a case 54 millimeters long, with a rim.

Now we come to modern US cartridges, and there is no standard!
the .30/30 is a thirty caliber bullet loaded over (ORIGINALY!) thirty grains of smokeless powder. Never loaded with black powder, but was a transition cartridge, thus the old style name. Also known as the .30 WCF (Winchester Center Fire)
The .25/20, .32/20, .38/40, and .44/40 were all black powder cartridges that kept the same name when they moved to smokeless. Also known as WCFs, too.
Your .30/06 means a .30 caliber bullet on a cartridge adopted by the US military in 1906.
The .270 is properly known as the .270 Winchester, was a Winchester development.
Some cartridges were named after people: .257 Roberts
Some cartridges are named for proformance: .250/3000 (.25 caliber, 3000 FPS, hot stuff when first developed).
Cartridges of the World is a standard reference, and as close to the Dummies books as posible when dealing with caliber/cartridge names.

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

I've done it more than a few times....as they say "practice makes perfect"! I've NEVER had a wounded animal at this range....all dropped instantly...using the right slugs helps. I don't recomend this shooting for everybody, but I've been using this gun for 20 yr. and know how it shoots. I've since scoped it......see thru mounts, irons are set for 150yd and scope for 300yd. I've Never had an animal take more than one step after pulling the trigger, whether it be luck or whatever else, that's just how it's been:)

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

Well, anything can happen on the internet!!!

Drilling Man

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

The naming of rounds is a very weird thing. Some are named for the diamter of the bullet, some for the creator of the round some for the powder weight used, some for the date they were designed and some just get a cool name to sell more guns. As far as the calibers you named anyone would make a great deer gun and take just about any big game. The 30-06 has been around for a good while and is very popular and has a ton of factory loadings. The .270 is faster and flatter shooting than the .06 and is also extremely popular. Other callibers you might want to consider that are popular and do the job well
.308 Winchester
.280 Rem ( very comparable to .270 and 30-06, same casing as .06 necked down to .284 caliber or 7mm)
7mm/08 ( 7mm(.284 caliber fitted to a necked down .308 casing hence the 08)
As far as magnums go the 7mm Rem mag is extremely popular and what i shoot or the .300 winchester magnum.

There are so many guns and rounds out there, especially now with the barage of short magnums coming out. You are on the right track by asking around. Ask other hunters, shoot diffrent guns and just do you research and find what gun fits you best and does the job you want and you will be happy.

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

So you pop em off at 400 yds with iron sights and they drop instantly? WOW!;)

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

Isn't 400 yards minimum range in Montana?

I remember shooting the M16 at 500 meters with open sights. (We were all wishing to have the M14 back!) No problem if you have your dope on.

Besides, it isn't the 1400 foot pounds or so that kills at 400. The hit lands unaware, and then the muzzle blast finishes 'em off!

Heh, heh.

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

Arbeitler addresses a problem that is prevalent in our society. When I was a kid and wanted to know more about hunting and guns I had a friend of the family take me under their wing and show me the ins and outs of this great sport. Nowadays people that are interested have nowhere to turn for this info. Everyone plays golf nowadays instead of hunting and fishing.[:@] Arbeitler I would suggest a 30-06 or 7 Rem mag for your future hunting means. Both have about the same recoil level and both do the job on medium to large game. As you become more proficient or you want more adventure you can go on to different cartridges if you like but for some hunters they are all you'll ever need for a lifetime of hunting. I wouldn't be disappointed at all if I were limited to either of these 2 fine cartridges. 30/30 while a great whitetail cartridge within its means(150 yard max range) it will hardly do the trick on most western game at some long western ranges(200-300 yards)

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

plainsman,

What type of ammo are you using in your 30-06?

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

Ive taken 1 deer past the 400 yard mark with my 308, even with 4x magnification that deer was still pretty small, probably the biggest thing id be worried about shooting at that long of distance is exactly what happened to me, something called time of flight I was lined up on that deer and just as i pulled my trigger it took a step or two forward in the time it took the bullet to get there, my bullet struck it square in the guts, i thought it was good hit because it took off running and folded over after about 40 yards but when I retrieved it the deer had a hole in its stomach and intestines hanging out of the exit wound, when i field dressed it the intestines were perferated stomach was busted open the smell of the mixture of bowl and stomach acid is enough to make some of the toughest men puke I was having the dry heeves the whole time. The only vital organ somehow or another that was hit was the liver so the massive internal hemridging would explain why it expired after only 40 yards of running.

Nowdays I try to keep my shots as close as possible if I have any doubts I dont shoot.
I've learned to avoid the smell of the mixture of bowl and stomach acid at all costs just thinking about how bad it smelled is making me gag right now.

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

If you want a powerfull cartrige for out west then id go with one of these.
*30-06
*45-70
*300 weatherby magnum
*416 rigby

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

A recipe an old friend makes up for his 30.06, all I know is that the slugs are 165 gr. noslers. Haven't had any trouble yet. For those thinking that anything past 300yd. is a long shot haven't spent their lives hunting mule deer in Alberta. I don't shoot at moving animals or animals that I expect to move soon at this range, I won't take that kind of shot unless I think the deer will be stationary for a little bit longer.

Believe it or not!!;)

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

Western AFRICA maybe! :eek:

The 416 Rigby is an obsolecent cartridge that has little place in North America. If you are not a handloader, I wouldn't consider this cartridge for a New York minute, because you probably won't find ammo, and if you do it'll cost you MINIMUM $75 a box. If you handload, you can load it for cheaper, but you'll pay a premium for brass.

He asked about a rifle for shooting at longer ranges common out west. Sure, a .45-70 can do it if one is great at doping range and a crack shot, because by the time that big inefficient slug gets out to 300 yards the trajectory looks like an artillery shell. Not exactly a flat shooting rifle. If he hunts up close in the thick stuff, a 45-70 would be great, but in wide open spaces, it loses its luster really fast.

Another less popular and MUCH more expensive cartridge (albeit an excellent one if one handloads or has a lot of money). You have some expensive tastes in rifle cartridges, but I'm assuming that he doesn't have $35-60 to drop PER BOX of 20 for the ammo, and that he's not a handloader.

My suggestion would be to go with a cartridge that is popular enough that you can easily find ammo at Walmart (or similar) and that is cheap enough to shoot regularly to become proficient with the rifle, yet still meets or exceeds your performance needs without being excessivly loud or kick so hard it'll make you a bad shot if you don't practice like crazy.

You've already said that you want to shoot "bigger game," which I take to mean bigger than whitetailed deer, excluding the VERY large and dangerous game like the great bears, bison and such. You also said you want a cartridge "that will shoot longer distances," which I'll assume to mean that you intend to reach out farther than a .30-30 can reasonably reach, which in my mind is 150 yards, but not really looking at shooting at extreme ranges (400+ yards, out where VERY FEW people can take ETHICAL shots on game. Let's face it, most people THINK they are better shots than they are).

Factoring in the conditions in the above two paragraphs, I'd probably choose the following cartridges in this order:

7mm Remington Magnum (7mm Rem Mag, or just 7mm Mag for short): Very popular cartridge, fairly inexpensive, flat shooting and powerful enough to take anything up to and including moose at reasonable ranges (400 yards). Ammo is readily available and the selection of factory bullets for a variety of different types of game is very good. Also doesn't kick too much harder than a .30-06 in most rifles.

300 Winchester Magnum (300 Win Mag): Excellent all around big game cartridge that with the right load will take anything on the North Amercan continent, although I'd probably opt for something a little bigger is my prey can kill me back. Popular and easy to find in a wide variety of loads (though not as common as the 7mm Rem Mag), it does also boast a bit more recoil and will take some practice to master without developing a flinch. Ammo is usually about $18-27 a box in my area, which is pretty good for a .30cal magnum.

.270 Winchester Short Magnum (.270WSM): A relative newcomer, but has become quite popular in the short time since it was introduced. Ammo is not as easy to find at places like Wally World, but it's getting better. Ammo can be easily found at sporting goods stores. Ammo is also not really that expensive. This seems to be an outstanding cartridge for medium to heavy cloven hooved game at most practical ranges. Very flat shooting without a lot of recoil. Also has the advantage of using a short action receiver, making the rifle shorter and lighter than a standard magnum. Handily exceeds the performance of the ever popular .270 Winchester, even in a shorter barrel. With a longer magnum length barrel (24-26") the performance is truly remarkable.

Just my thoughts,

Mike

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

If you join a local high powered rifle shooting club, go to the range as much as possible and ask questions. A pitfall in doing this, is that many shooters will only tout the rifle/cartridge combination that they are using! The very least that you can learn, is how the rifle shoots for them. Walk down range when they collect their targets and look at the results. Maybe keep a log and learn which cartridges will fit your needs. Many cartridge/rifle combinations will fit into the plans that you outlined and it is very difficult to pin down what you should get without your checking things out on your own. The shooting range is one place where you can see lots of rifles shooting lots of different calibers and have the chance to speak to folks who are using them.
I know, at our local range, people have shown up that know very little about rifles and cartridges. Most anyone at our range will take the time to answer questions and even allow someone to put a round or two down range. New people coming into our hobby are the life's blood of the sport and most are welcomed and encouraged to become gun nuts, just like we are!

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

If you join a local high powered rifle shooting club, go to the range as much as possible and ask questions. A pitfall in doing this, is that many shooters will only tout the rifle/cartridge combination that they are using! The very least that you can learn, is how the rifle shoots for them. Walk down range when they collect their targets and look at the results. Maybe keep a log and learn which cartridges will fit your needs. Many cartridge/rifle combinations will fit into the plans that you outlined and it is very difficult to pin down what you should get without your checking things out on your own. The shooting range is one place where you can see lots of rifles shooting lots of different calibers and have the chance to speak to folks who are using them.
I know, at our local range, people have shown up that know very little about rifles and cartridges. Most anyone at our range will take the time to answer questions and even allow someone to put a round or two down range. New people coming into our hobby are the life's blood of the sport and most are welcomed and encouraged to become gun nuts, just like we are!

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

Amen! Heck I once killed a running deer at 1500 yards with a 243 shooting free hand in a 60 mile per hour crosswind. Hit him in the eye right were I was aiming. Ain't the internet great. A man can do anything on it.

400 yards with open sights once I could pass off as a fluke. Claiming to do it consistently? Sorry I gotta call BS on that one. There is just no way to accurately aim open sights at that distance. The sights will completely cover even a deer sized animal at that distance. How can you tell which part of a deer you are going to hit when your front sight more than covers the whole animal?

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

some really good replies........Have you tried www.chuckhawks.com ? some of the
stuff on his site you have to pay for but alot of rifle and cartridge info is free. give
it a try. lots of info. what calibers for what, etc. good luck

RE: Basic caliber question?
 

Guys I admitt the scepticism on the 400yd open site shot, but give em the benefit of the doubt. He has a few things going for him. 1) he uses a 30-06 for deer(not a smaller caliber)which has knockdown power and to spare. 2)he uses heavy bullets for the animal 165gr(heavy for deer). 3)he uses handloads(always a plus). For personal reference there is an old guy here that goes to the range about 6 times a month near as I can tell. He shoots several old military rifles, 303brit, 8mm Argentine or something, anyways we have an old acetaline bottle at 1000yds and this guy sits there w/ open sites, obsolete pumpkin slinging cartridges, and gongs that 1000yd bottle 3 out of four shots sometimes better, whats more, he cant hit paper at 300 to save his bacon. Sooooo.......who knows.