Gm54-120

I find it interesting that you seem to be in the minority when it comes to getting BH209 to shoot well. When was the last time you heard of Pyrodex winning a inline event.....Like NEVER and BH209 has won them so many times i could fill 2 pages with the top 5 places over the years. I can shoot all day without swabbing and shoot great groups so i got not idea why you cant get BH209 to shoot or felt the need to swab.

bronko22000

Well to each their own GM but being in the minority doesn't make me wrong. We can have a difference of opinion and that's mine. I've tried BH209 3 times in different rifles with different bullets, charges, compression etc but could not get it to match the accuracy I was getting with either Pyrodex or Alliant Black MZ. As for swabbing between shots - that you don't do it or have to do it is more power to you. I swab between shots regardless what powder I'm using.
I'm not giving up on BH209 yet. I have two full canisters of it setting in my gun room. I have two 700MLs with Badger Ridge 209 conversions that I will attempt to try it in. One I just got together the other shoots between 1 and 1.5 MOA with 100 gr of Black MZ and a 250 gr Barnes 250 Expander MZ in a Harvester CR sabot.

Gm54-120

Maybe your entire accuracy issue was the swabbing which is not needed. Never has been needed. This issue has been covered since day one on the forums. Yet you choose to do it then blame the powder.

bronko22000

Far from it. Why would I want to shoot at the range with a fouled barrel then hunt on a clean barrel? That makes about as much sense as sighting in with one bullet then when you go hunting to use a different bullet. You do what you think is best as I will.
Swabbing should have no difference in accuracy unless you constantly shoot/hunt with a fouled barrel. I want each shot to be as consistent as possible and that includes getting as much fouling out of the bore as possible for each shot.
Any propellant will leave some fouling in the bore and this fouling will alter the internal pressures which would change the POI from a clean vs a fouled barrel. To say BH209 doesn't leave fouling would be a downright falsehood. There is a significant amount of fouling left in the bore from BH209.
As for this topic being covered, yes it has and from what I can see on this forum and MML there are those that swab and those that don't. Yes the majority don't swab but there are a lot that do and for the same exact reason I stated.

Gm54-120

Like i said you REFUSE to try it.

Thank you for proving my point. Every time it comes up about a fouled bore its been said pop a few primers and dry swab once. BAM you have a fouled bore with virtually no corrosion. Done this for ages and it works. Next 3 shots are well within minute of deer. About an inch different than powder fouled. We aint talking about making a money shot where 1/8" difference means you lost a match.

bronko22000

You are correct I do refuse to try it because I want consistency not shooting on a clean bore and a fouled bore. Te each their own I guess. But for the sake of argument I have 2 identical 700MLs. Next time out, whenever that will be, I will shoot one with swabbing after each shot and the other without swabbing after firing off a couple primers. Will see if there is any difference. I do have to get out one day next week to verify my flintlock is sighted in for the upcoming late primitive season. Today and tomorrow are definitely out due to this current snow/sleet storm wer're having and the weekends are usually crowded. I like to shoot alone so I can focus on what I'm doing.

Gm54-120

Shot on the left is the first shot on a 209 primer only fouled bore....Shots on the right are the next 3 with no swabbing.

bronko22000

Well GM if that's at 100 yards You're still shooting 1.25"-1.5" MOA and your first shot is about 1" from the remaining 3. That's great for paper. You can take an actual fouling shot then shoot for a group. That being said, when I shoot, my first shot on a clean bore then the next consecutive shots after swabbing are in the same group shooting the same MOA as you are. So with that in mind your first shot hits basically outside your group whereas all mine are in the same group. So for hunting purposes which is all I use my muzzleloaders for I see no advantage of fouling my bore as my first shot hits where its supposed to on a clean bore and I rarely need a second shot while hunting but if I do I know if I run a patch down the bore it will also be right there too.
The difference in both methods are actually insignificant.
Rather than hijack this thread as we seem to have been doing we can discuss this more in depth via PM.
And like I posted yesterday, when the weather clears I will take both 700s out and shoot one with swabbing and the other without. And if I have time just to eliminate any variables with the different rifles, I will clean them both thoroughly and switch rifles and repeat the procedure.