...A load of BS coming from a guy that shoots a big gun too, a lot more accurately than you.



.45-70 "big gun" fired 253yrds supported on a fence post. Double lung and heart, a lot better than pie pan accuracy, at a lot farther than 100yrds. In the "forest" no less, or at least as close as it gets to forest here in Flatlandia.

But then again, I'm not the one that took the ruler to the bathroom.

As far as "most accurate rifle" goes, the most accurate rifles aren't bought off of any shelf, they're built. That said, what you're describing, 2-3MOA groups aren't acceptable, especially considering how well so many of today's factory rifles do shoot, even with factory loads. I wouldn't expect that a factory rifle SHOULD shoot better than 1.5MOA, although many do, some much better. 2-3MOA is pretty rough though.

How did you do your load development for these rifles? What bullet weight and twist are you shooting?

a not too big of a gun, 348 win. bear was shot at 8 steps fighting dogs on the ground, coyote was shot running at about 20 yards
that rifle is sighted in 1.5" high at 100 yards
bigger gun, 458 socom AR-15 sighted in 2.5" high at 100 puts it about 4" low at 200, bear was shot at 40 feet.

I have the ability to shoot game as far as I want, but I don't have too, I do it to challenge my own abilities. my most accurate gun is a full house custom 6.5, it is amazing 3 shots at a lazered 752 yards with a 2 mph crosswind

50 cal muzzloader, sighted in 2" high at 100 yards produced a bang/flop on this whitetail at 208, offhand put the second stadia wire of a burris BP high on the shoulder

your rifle will serve you much better and you'll develop more confidance if you take he time to properly sight it in. Don't worry so much about the cost of the ammo, shoot as much as you can, if its too expensive....reload, the best woodsman in the world if he won't burn ammo is a vegetarian.
RR

I think someone is pulling everyones' leg (or is the correct term "stirring the pot"?), with the funny "practice is a waste of time" theory.

Some other good choices might have included:
- .22 LR is perfect for big bears
- skunks are good to eat
- head shots on running elk at 700 yards are easy
- Don't worry about TSA rules. Take anything you want onto an airplane.
- It is always wise to insult the waiter and cook when ordering food

He is surely getting a rise out of the comment. It must be that Oakland, Maryland sense of humor!

I know I posted a few threads back about my Savage .308 rifle and how accurate it is. I finally found an old photo on a thumb drive that I saved from a few years ago.

This is the result from my (older model - 1997) Savage model 10 chambered in .308 with a Bushnell 3-9x40 scope at 100 yards at the local rifle range. Hell, I don't think I even shouldered the rifle... I had it secure in a cheap Caldwell plastic rifle bench rest, and simply reached up and pulled the trigger each time I re-centered the crosshairs back on the bullseye. If I had really held the rifle better, or strapped it in or something, all those bullet holes would have touched.



Also, after a while I bumped up the scope's elevation turret 4 clicks, so the Savage .308 is 1" high at 100 yards (i.e. +/- 150 yards dead on), and that's good enough for me. I stupidly forgot to save the next target showing it 1" high at 100 yards, but take my word for it.

Guess you don't understand going to the range then. I roll my own ammo, I don't pay those insane ammo prices either. You go to the range to practice, not to constantly tinker with optics. If you are constantly adjusting your scopes, there is a problem. I haven't adjusted mine for several years now, and that was a couple of clicks when I did. I go there to practice, not socialize with the others. Kind of hard to talk if the gun is going off isn't it? Why practice? Probably because game animals, whether its deer, elk, or cape buffalo, deserve the respect of a clean kill. I have witnessed too many hunters who go out the two weeks before season(most of us have seen the type) and put a few rounds thru the gun and say "good nuff". That season they miss or wound several deer and say they need a better gun. Minute of pie plate may be good enough for you, but your odds are a lot better for a bad shot than me. It is a shame to see archery hunters thumbing their nose at gun hunters like you do(your comments lead to that presumption). We all are hunters, but yet because you chose to buy over-priced equipment that's "primitive" and gives you this huge disadvantage, bowhunting is some how better. Bet you would look at different without the swanky compound bow and sights, and carbon arrows with mechanical broadheads. Recurve, wood shafts, and a stone head. That is real archery hunting.

I'm actually hoping you're right Uncle. Experience with certain hunters with his mindset over the years has left me jaded.

But then again, if a sheep wears wolf's clothing, then gets shot because I thought it was a wolf in my flock, I wouldn't feel bad for them, nor feel bad about wasting the bullet.

Guys the OP here, some quick thoughts, Nomercy448, nice buck, wish I had one that big. Went to the range on Wed, cold as heck. Vanguard, shooting factory Hornady168g match,2.75@100yards. Factory Federal fusion150g, 1.5@ 100yards.Reloads- CFE223 with 150g Hornady interlocks, first 3 shots, .75 fourth shot brought group out to 1.25@100, pleasantly surprised with this powder,will expermint more with this. 165g Game kings with Win760 first 3 shots .75 fourth shot brought out group to 1.5@100. My reloads shot better than the factory. So I think I can get this gun to shoot, on this day I did shoot two nice 3 shot groups. With the Ruger I did get a 1inch 4 shoot group with 165g game kings with IMR3031. I will fine tune these loads until I can get the accuracy I want, not quite there yet but getting closer. Also just to get this I have shot many bullet,powder combos. I love to shoot, just wish I could get to the range more often. Thx for all the replies.

saur, the 3 in and 2 out points to seating depth, check your throat length, establish a max COL and seat .006-,010 under that, see how it does.
RR

ive never missed a deer, never wounded one either, i give animals the respect of a good clean kill every time i take one. i carry one bullet with me when i go into the woods and i make it count.
the simple fact is i cant see more than a hundred yards anywhere on the property i hunt. my average deer kill is 30-50 yards.
if i felt a deer was further than what i KNOW i can accurately hit im not pulling the trigger.
so as for me being an unethical hunter no im not. im also a bowhunhter who lets about 50 bucks walk every year, so just so you know killing deer is not the only reason im in the woods.
great deer everyone sorry for being a !@#hole on that one, all im saying is i shoot nice deer too and i do it accurately. i just don't think you understand the terrain i hunt.
any my rifle hunting basically mimics my bowhunting, i set up in the same spots so the trails i know the deer will be on are all within 50 yards, its not like i pull the trigger on deer that are far away.
hitting a nine inch pie plate every single time you shoot your gun from 100 yards means that you can 100% for certain shoot a still standing deer at or within 100 yards.
its not like i hunt a field edge where deer might walk by at 300 yards.
and once again ive never made anything other than heart and lung shots. which are ethical kills.
we all hunt different, because i enjoy a close encounter (even just watching the first does of a morning stroll by 15 yards away) i setup closer to their trails.
i wish i had land with corn fields, or open areas but i dont. its dense forest and i hunt it that way. im not ever going to shoot a deer from more than a hundred yards.
if i ever missed a deer there would be a problem but i havent so if it aint broke dont fix it.
so for everyone just because i dont sight my rifle in for three hundred yards doesnt mean its not sighted in well enough, it means its sighted in for the distance i hunt from.
if i ever missed my 100 yard 9 inch pie plate then there would be a problem but ive never missed it either. i would never win a competition, but i would never take an unethical shot at a deer. like i say, i cant see deer from over 100 yards and have a clear shot on my land. you have to be close to them to get them here. i use the 45 for knockdown.
ive shot six bucks with this gun i must be doing something right.

This...

And/or might depend on how quickly you're firing your groups (didn't mention that...)

And/or... since you noticed your first 3 were 3/4", then threw the 4th or 5th shots, you might be shooting at your bullet holes, rather than shooting at the same POA. I only mention that since you did mention the group size of the first shots compared to the last shots. I make it a habit to never look at my POI when firing for groups until I'm done, that way I can keep myself disciplined to aim for the same POA without distraction. It's just human nature to let yourself subconsciously shoot towards your other bullet holes - kinda like your back of your mind thinks "the rest of those shots hit over there, I should aim over there..."

But yeah, I'd be grabbing a match or magic marker and checking my bullet jump.