bigbulls

Please!

The 338 Win mag as factory loaded with the 210 grain partition only has about an 85 yard distance advantage over the Federal.

Ifone considers the 338 Win mag to be a 400 yard elk cartridge then the Federal would do equally well at 320 yards with the same bullet.

The advantage the Win mag will have over the Federal is the ability to better handle bullets heavier than 225 grains.

goos_blues

Like I said, seems a little weak..especially if a 30-06 hits harder after a100 yards. according to ipscshooter that is. The round just seems like a waste.

ipscshooter

.30-06 180 gr
Muzzle...........100.......200.........300........ .400.........500
2750............2579......2414........2256.......2 103.......1957
3022...........2658........2330.......2034.......1 768........1530

338 Fed. 210 gr
2630...........2412......2204........2007.......18 20
3225...........2712......2266........1878.......15 45

338 Win. Mag. 210 gr
2830..........2601......2383........2176........19 80.......1794
3734..........3155......2648........2208........18 27.......1500

325 WSM 220 gr.
2840..........2605......2382.......2169.........19 68......1779
3941..........3316......2772........2300........18 93......1547


The above were taken from Federal's and Winchester's ballistics tables. Top line in each is velocity in fps. Bottom line is energy in ft. lbs. I only ran the 338 Fed out to 400 yards because I set a theoretical minimum of 1500 ft lbs for humane elk kills. I thought it was interesting that the .30-06 caught up with the energy levels of the 338 and 325 Magnums at about the 500 yard mark. I guess that means the '06 isa better long range elk rifle.

I don't see the 338 Fed as "a little weak". That would be like me saying that a .30-30 is too weak for whitetail deer. It's a matter of knowing your cartridge's capabilities and limiting your range/shot choice accordingly. (Or perhaps I could argue that the .338 Win Mag is a little weak because the .30-06 has more energy at 500 yards.)

bigbulls

Exactly what bullet are you listing for the 180 grain 30-06. Cause it aint the Federal nosler partition load.

I don't know of any 180 grain 30-06 load that is that good.


OK, I see it's the 180 grain XP3 from Winchester. I think they are a bit optomistic with those numbers though. Even so, if we are going to compare cartridges lets at least use the same bullet.

ipscshooter

That's how I started out... comparing the .338 Fed. vs. the .338 WM 210 gr. NP loads from Federal. Then I thought, someone mentioned the .325 WSM, and since Federal doesn't list any loads, I had to go to the Winchester site. Not sure why I picked the 220 gr. load over the 180 or 200 (both of which perform a bit better than the 220). Adding the .30-06 to the chart was an afterthought I had while on the Winchester site, as it's what I have, and what I would probably carry on an elk hunt. I've used Winchester Super-X 150 gr. Power Points on whitetails, but figured I'd spring for some of the expensive stuff if I took it elk hunting.I picked the XP3 load because it's the one that came up on their "bullet search" for large heavy game. I didn't even look at the ballistics of their other 180 gr. loads before writing down the XP3's stats.

Not sure any of that means anything, but, that's how my little comparison chart evolved.

Getting back to the original post, I think the .338 Fed, chambered in one of those nice 6 lb. Kimber 84's with some good 3-9X glass (and a limbsaver recoil pad), would make a heckuva nice elk rig for shots out to about 250-300 yards. If the range is going to be greater than 300 yards, then, yeah... the .338 WM or .325 WSM might be a better choice, but, I'm not a good enough shot to even try hitting something from a 1/4 mile away, so that part of the discussion is kinda moot...

kdvollmer

My hat's off to you for KNOWING that you don't shoot well enough to take that longer riskier shot. Having the kinetic energy at long range is probably the best reason for shooting the big guns. If you are not going to take that shot, then do you really need the extra.

my personal cartridge of choice is a .338 Lapua Mag. Sure, you all will say that contradicts what I just said, but, with my military background in long range shooting (slightly more than just basic and advanced infantry training) I am confident of hitting say a 10inch bull out to 600-700 meters ona consistant basis. Something the size of a bear or Elk ou tto at least 1000 would be easy to hit, but not necessarily a vitals. I wouldn't take that shot. I'm just not that good either.

goos_blues

Wow. I can't imagine anyone ever taking a shot at an elk from 1000 yards

kdvollmer

I never said that I would shoot an elk at that distance. All that I said was that a target that size would not be hard to hit with the proper rifle. At 1000 meters, with my rifle,I can hit it, i know that for sure. Can I hit that ever so imprtant vital area, to kill it clean from that distance. I won't even try, no need to worry about that. If youread my whole post, I even stated, I am not good enough to make that vitals shot at that distance. Now, 600 yards I know I can, if I am comfortable with all the variables involved. How much wind is there, how am I feeling right now, how much temperature difference from right now, compared to when I confirmed my zero, more or less humidity, how much more or less?There is a lot more that goes into that long shot than just changing your scope elevation. Fortunatly, I have that knowledge. That will decide shoot, or don't shoot past say 400 meters.

Now as far as enough energy to hunt that range effectively, check this chart for the .338 Lapua Magnum.

[align=left]**the following info was borrowed from
by Jeff Quinn

July 15th, 2004
http://www.gunblast.com/ArmaLite_AR-30.htm
[/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left]at 600 meters, just shy 0f 3000 ft-lbs of energy, and even at 1000 meters, you are lookng at just shy of 2000fl -lbs of energy.[/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left][/align][align=left]Like I said, all this does not mean shoot that distance, just to show that, it can be done. Though, 1000 meters for vitals...not be me.[/align]

ipscshooter

Hey kdv... How much does the ammo cost for that beast?

HEAD0001

I like the idea of the cartridge. I have two 358 Winchester's. IMO the .358 is one of the most underrated cartridge's there is. The .338 lay's right in between the .308 and the .358. It should do just fine. That extra bullet weight and diameter should fit the bill nicely. Recoil should also be manageable. Tom.