Mignolafan

Hey Board,

I'm totally new here and new to hunting. I've taken a summer job to help save up for some "toys" I've been looking at buying my first rifle. Thinking about going for a Savage w/ Accutrigger at wally world. My question is this: Any opinions on a good all around cartridge: I'm looking for something that shoots flat and far. (speaking of "shooting flat," can anybody clarify what exactly that means?) I live in Texas and will try my hand at deer hunting next season. An uncle of mine recommended a .243 but I know that lot's of people use a .270, but I've also heard if you want to hunt over animals that require long distance shots such as (big horn sheep, antelope) you need something that can travel in the 300 yard range. Okay, I'll stop rambling. Been checking out this board for sometime, it seems very respectable and some honest opinions.

Thanks,

Folically Challenged

Welcome aboard. Glad to see you didn't start out with too controversial of a topic!

"Flat", "Far", & "Long Distance" are all relative terms. So, everyone who replies is going to have a different idea of what that means! Here's one way to look at the "range game": http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm. [DISCLAIMER: I realize that I'm setting myself up for loads of folks to tell me that they've shot grizzlies at 600 yards with a .30-30. I'm just using Chuck's figures as a place to start.]

In short, if300 yards is your magic number, there are fairly few cartridges that will fit your bill.When you step it down to, say, 250 yards, there are tons more choices.If you look closely at the MPBR figures, you'll find that it generally takes a lot of powder (and recoil, and muzzle blast, and ammo expense...) to get to that 300 yard number, while keeping the trajectory within a 3 inch "pipe". However, there are some relatively mild cartridges that still top out at 275 to 295 yards.

I'd ask if you could give us some more information. Are whitetails the biggest animals you plan to hunt? Would you also like to shoot prairie dogs, ground hogs, foxes, coyotes, muskrats, etc.? Will there ever be caribou, moose, or elk on your menu?

Are you going to be a shooter, or a hunter? I've known lots of hunters who didn't shoot much at all. To them, recoil was a non-issue, since they didn't have to endure it for more than a handful of rounds each season! For those who like to blow a couple boxes of ammo per week, the cumulative effects of the recoil can add up.

What's been your shooting experience so far? Rimfires? Shotguns? Any centerfire shooting experience? If so, which cartridges? In which rifles? If you tell us a bit about your background, we can use that as a baseline for comparisons of other cartridges we might suggest.

The bottom line is that the .243 and especially the .270, will shoot plenty flat enough, and hard enough,for TX whitetails. And when you get 3,000 replies to your post, each suggesting yet another cartridge, most of those will be entirely adequate, too! Deer just aren't that tough, and most cartridges will be able to get the job done on them. The questions come when you start discussing the range of animals you're going after, and whether they'll be in the mountains, swamps, forests, or fields.

Take Care,

FC

Retaks

I have to agree with Folically Challanged, About anything you pick bigger then a 243 will work great. I found out im more of a shooter then a hunter and banging 4 or 5 boxes of 30-06 or 33 ultra mag ammo a week is harder on the pocket then the bank account. so i stopped shooting for a couple months and ended up saving enough for 3 rifles. Go figure $30 a box for 30-06 and $50 a box for 300 ammo adds up very quickly. I then added a 22 Mag, 223, and a 204 Ruger to my collection. Then my weekly bill went way down. Now im down around $50 for 140 rounds when it used to be $190 for 100 rounds. And the fact im shooting better since i shoot smaller guns i dont have any flinch to deal with. Now im as capable as my guns to shoot what they are capable of. Stick with what you feel is best. Here are a few good choices that ammo should be easily available. 243, 25-06, 270, 7mm-08, 7mm Mag, 308, 30-06, 300 Mag.

Mignolafan

Thanks for the speedy replies. Some good advice. Ya'll have given me some more things to think about. Okay, history: I did not grow up hunting so I have little experience. My wife's brother-in-law took me dove hunting last Sept. and that did it and got me hooked. Since then I bought a Remington 870 12 ga. shotgun and I've taken a couple of squirrels. I've been deer hunting once (enjoyed it). I hunt on Public lands here in Texas. Still learning how to walk quietly in the woods (told ya I'm pretty green) I have joined a shooting range, haven't been there enough. (I have owned a Marlin .22 rifle since I was 13-14..can probably count on 1 hand the number of times I've shot it.) About hunting game: Deer and hog will probably be the largest animals that I'll hunt with it. I would like to antelope hunt in the future (Texas has a lottery drawing for more exotics like this on their public lands). Eventually, I'd like to hunt for Mule deer and possibly Elk way down the road (I'll have lots of time to buy another rifle suitable for those) So let's say this rifle will probably be used for deer, hog and maybe, just maybe antelope and coyote. So, here are a couple of questions: Is a .243 enough knockdown for these animals? How much recoil difference is between the .243 and .270? What is this .25-06 that Retaks mentioned?

Thanks Again,

Folically Challenged

a HA! Now we're getting somewhere!

Knockdown power, you ask? Here are a couple of treatises onthat subject: http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power.htm, and http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power_list.htm.

Recoil difference? Take a look at this table: http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

.25 - 06? Naturally, he's got a full breakdown of the history, capabilities, and recommended usages for it. However, this is on the paid portion of his site, & propriety forbids me to throw it out to the non-paying public without his consent. Basically, the .25-06 is a .30-06 case necked-down to hold .25 caliber bullets. The .270 is also a .30-06 case, necked down to hold, you guessed it, .27 caliber bullets.Both of these calibers will take the deer, hogs, & antelope that you mention, and the .25-06 will do it with less recoil, & slightly less muzzle blast. Cartrigdges based on the .30-06 are so-called "long action" cartridges, so the bolt throw (should you choose a bolt action rifle), will be longer than with a "short action" cartridge.

So, you ask, "what's a short action" cartridge? Well, it's any of the cartridges based on the .308 Winchester, including the .243 Win, .260 Rem, and 7mm-08 Rem. The cartridge is shorter, so it burns slightly less powder than the long action cartridges. You'll get slightly less velocity in most (but not necessarily all...) cases, along with less muzzle blast (again, generally speaking), and less recoil.

The recoil page posted earlier gives you one way to evaluate these cartridges. Another way to choose would be based on ammo availability & cost, which generally go hand-in-hand. I would say availability in most places would be as follows (in decreasing order): .30-06, .270, .243, .25-06, 7mm-08, .260. Of course, it matters most what they carry where YOU live, so go toyour favoritestore, & see what's on the shelf.

If I were to inject my personal opinion here, I'd say pass on the .243, and look at the .25-06, 7mm-08, and .270. Throw a dart among those 3, and you'll have a great cartridge! I've had less than stellar results on deer with the .243, but I'll admit that my shot placement was seldom great when I was shooting that gun. And there are, without a doubt, many, many folks on here who've had outstanding success with that cartridge. Again, this just my personal opinion. (I had to insert it somewhere in here!)

The quandary in which you now find yourself is trying to pick one of these cartridges, for any of them are well suited to what you've said you're trying to hunt. When you come to this site asking for opinions, you're going to get the die-hard fans of each & every cartridge, swearing that theirs is far & away the best, & that you'd be a fool to choose anything else. The best thing to do would be to make friends with your fellow sportsmen at the range you've joined, & ask if you can shoot their rifles in those calibers. Then you can let the cartridge choose you!

Keep us updated,

FC

Retaks

Yes a 243 will have plenty of power for what your wanting to hunt. Very mild recoil. The 270 will have noticable more recoil; the a 243 but its still a mild recoiling rifle. I have to agree with Folically Challanged and try different rifles and calibers. Im a big fan of 30-06 and the Magnum cartridges but for what your wanting to hunt a 243 is plenty. Actually a 22-250 would work but i would try to stay away from anything smaller then a 243 until you get alot of practice and know your going to hit where you want every shot.

CZ2506

If you want to start hunting, I would bring that .22 out of the closet, stop at Wally World and buy a couple thousand rounds of ammo (get several different kinds) then practice, practice, practice. No matter which gun or cartridge you pick (I would vote for a 25-06 Rem) it will be cheaper and easier to become a good field condition shooter by plinking with that .22. Not to mention the fact that it's a lot of fun.

Mignolafan

Thanks for the info. I was at wally world today looking at ammo and this Savage Model 10 in .243. I had the lady behind the counter (a hunter as well) let me look through the special order book. This Savage rifle is black synthetic w/ a scope for about $365 (I think this particular model only comes in .243, .270, 300 WSM, and .300 Rem. Ultra Mag.-but it doesn't have an Accutrigger according to their special order book) The rifle I had in my hands does feature the Accutrigger though...I'll have to go pester the Walmart folks again. Shooting the .22 sounds good to me. Any body tell me about the recoil of the .25-06 vs. .243, and is the .25-06 between the 243 and 270? (as far as caliber?)

Thanks Again

Red Lion

Savage makes fine rifles and .270 would be a very good caliber for deer, given your terrain and needs.

Retaks

A 25-06 is going to have more recoil then a 243. A 243 has very little recoil at all. Where at the 25-06 is going to be more noticeable when you shoot it. The 243 could easily be shot all day by all adult shooters and never got sore shoulders but the 25-06 a few people would be done after 30-40 rounds.
As for the 25-06 and the 270 i would say the 25-06 is slightly less powerful then the 270 but they are very similar calibers(someone correct me if im wrong i never owned a 25-06 but am really looking into getting one).
If i was you i would shoot as much as possible with your 22 and from many positions. Ive seen many people go out and shoot good from a bench but cant hit a truck at 100 yards when you take away the bench. And yes i do know someone that really cant hit a truck sized target at 100 yards under hunting conditions.
Savage has a very fine rifle for the money. As for the one with the scope i would just buy the regular rifles and save the extra money for a decent scope and good bases. The scopes and mounts guns come with from the factory are usually junk.