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- - 45-70 (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/firearm-review-forum/138719-45-70-a.html)

Yes you are correct, the modern levers are designed to handle the pressures of the .450 mar. and 45/70 hot loads. They are basiclly the same round ,shouldered different to keep them out of each others rifles. I would still pick the 45/70 over the .450, It is starting to gain its popularity back and with some of the super rounds being made by buffalo bore and garrett it is right there beside the .450. I hope the comment about it being just barely big enough for elk is a joke.That round put 1000's of buffalo down and that was with black powder ammo.I would have to think they are alittle tougher then elk.

Quote:

ORIGINAL: James B

Of course it depends on the rifle but the recoil of the 450 Marlin with a 350 grain Bullet at 2200 fps is 37.2 lbs. About the same as the 375 H&H. Also about the same as 45-70's loaded to that level. While these nunbers don't tell it all, it does tell you something about the 45-70's ability to recoil. Factory 45-70 loads recoil at about 17-18 lbs.

Ok, smartie pants now tell us what it is for little bit lower to like 2000fps? Or like my 45-70 with a 300gr at 2100fps.

Well, let me put it this way. My gun don't hold a candle to my old 300Rum or my 870 with a 3" slug. Maybe that will help you understand.

Judging by the same charts from Hawks, the milder loads would start about 30-06 levels or 17-19 lbs. I was not arguing with you its just that the 45-70 can be loaded to *****cat levels or bearcat levels.;)The same with rifles and their weight. Even 405 grain bullets at 1200 fps will thunp you pretty good in the NEF and Ruger Number Three rifles. The Marlin for me is not to bad, either the weight or shape and style of the stock, make it more pleasant forme to shoot. A heavy load in the 12 Ga NEF shotgun will hammer you more than most 45-70 loads. On that I agree.

I rarely agree with hawks numbers. Recoil has so much to do with powder charge. In other words, if you could get 2200fps with 350gr bullet with a 40gr load, its 36 ft-lbs, but with a 52gr load, its 40 ft-lbs. Alot of things they don't take into consideration but alot of young folks on here thinks hawks is gospel.

His tables are simply a tool or chart to campare one rifle to another in a simular way. I use them because if looking into a new caliber or cartridge, it a place to start. Nothing short of firing a specific rifle with a specific load will deliver the true story.. Even then it depends on how the rifle fits the shooter. The Marlins and 700 Remingtons fit me the best in rifles of the same weight, they have less felt recoil to me. I had a 700 Classic in 300 Win Mag that didn't seem to bother me much at all. I later bought a Savage in the same caliber and it was brutal to say the best. A couple range sessions and it was on the used rifle shelf.

Quote:

ORIGINAL: nyorange

Had a 45-70 and got rid of it. Only place I'd use it isinwoods setting at shortrange. Rainbow Trajectory limits it as a short range roundunless you are areal experienced shooter and like extrapolating rainbow trajectories while hunting. At short ranges I see no advantage to the 45-70 over a 44 mag in a lever action and many disadvantages like weight and cost and recoiletc. The 45-70 has seen its day, time to let it die the death it deserves.
See below and then ask yourself if you really want a rifle cartridge that makes a 44 mag look good at 150yds?

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=RH44MGA*R 4570G

This denigration of the great .45/70is crap of the worst sort! Nothing stated here applies to the .45/70 used in a strong action like a Ruger No. 1 with good smokeless powder ammo. Indeed, it only applies if the round is loaded with black powder or a modern factory equivalent load that gives the same perfoirmance as the old BP ammo.

For example, in mine I use the Barnes Original 400-grain semisptizer (BC .389) at an instrumental velocity of 2270 FPS 10' from the muzzle. This shoots flatter than a .30/30, and is deadly on all thin-skinned game (viz: anything except elephant and rhino) anywhere in the world, and shoots flat enough to beeasy to hit with out to at least 250 yards if you can stand the recoil!

Very true. And besides that, The 45-70 has taken the African big six several times. Versitile is the one word definition of the 45-70.

I guess it just takes some experence with this round to appreciate its
ability.I have to say before I had one it seemed old and outdated, but to my surprise it is alive and well !!! I am having a blast loading for it and more fun shooting at some unbelivable ranges of 200 yards;). I was very impressed with it on the deer I shot this year, it was just short of devastating. That was with a buffalo bore 405 grain at about 100 yards. Its one of the rounds that all the charts and graphs do little to tell its true ability.

Out at the Quigley shoot, they shoot 800 yards and many matches shoot at least a 1000 yards. You are right though. This takes the right sights and lots of prcatice. It also takes Black Powder loads to consistantly hit at these ranges. Many have found that smokless powder just does not do the job on long range targets like Black Powder does.

If I am doing my math right, that cartridge is about 133 years old. If the bison and grizzly had their old range and numbers back, then I bet you would see even more! But then, you would have trouble crossing the interstate due to the herds, too!