An explaination regarding the off season forum
05-19-2010, 05:25 AM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 8,561
I think a cooling off period would be ... therapeutic. If/when it comes back, I would personally like to see thread locked instead of deleted. That way, the mod to lock it can provide an explanation. The "mystery" of disappearing threads works some people up. Plus, a lock can be temporary. Might make people a little happier, and happier people are less likely to make the inflammatory posts.
I'm on other forums, and there are systems warning 1-> warning, 2-> one month suspension,-> warning 1-> warning 2-> one month suspension, perma-ban. The mods check a box and the consequences are carried out automatically. Not much more work than deleting a thread. But the members see what's happening. Offending posts are edited, and the official warning is announced. No mystery. Not that I want to tell HNI how to run things, but one specific forum I belong to (an online game forum) runs very smoothly.
Also, there has been a tradition of being a little more lax in the off season. Maybe that time should end?
I have a different take on what you refer to as "fan boy." Because this forum is an online community, members develop a sense of ownership. It's not ownership in the sense of property rights, but a sense or feeling that goes along with belonging. When someone is kicked out, it violates that sense, and it effects others -- friends -- as well. So the way discipline is handled is critical.
In some cases, dissennsion may be unavoidable, like the way people trash a house just before they are foreclosed.
But if everybody sees a ban coming from a mile away, maybe the constant dissension of the onlookers/friends would be avoided. Instead of "YOU BANNED OLD JOE! ARRRRRGGGG!!!" people would say, "Well, hot-headed Old Joe got himself banned (again), LOL!"
Nobody will be happy all the time. I know I'm not, but there's no need to go into my little pet issue right now. I probably wouldn't ever get into it with an overall happier environment.
So I think the Off Season needs a cool down and a reboot, where we all start over happier, and the negative threads get locked right away with an upbeat message from the mod.
Maybe I'm too hopeful here? I just like what we have (had).
I'm on other forums, and there are systems warning 1-> warning, 2-> one month suspension,-> warning 1-> warning 2-> one month suspension, perma-ban. The mods check a box and the consequences are carried out automatically. Not much more work than deleting a thread. But the members see what's happening. Offending posts are edited, and the official warning is announced. No mystery. Not that I want to tell HNI how to run things, but one specific forum I belong to (an online game forum) runs very smoothly.
Also, there has been a tradition of being a little more lax in the off season. Maybe that time should end?
I have a different take on what you refer to as "fan boy." Because this forum is an online community, members develop a sense of ownership. It's not ownership in the sense of property rights, but a sense or feeling that goes along with belonging. When someone is kicked out, it violates that sense, and it effects others -- friends -- as well. So the way discipline is handled is critical.
In some cases, dissennsion may be unavoidable, like the way people trash a house just before they are foreclosed.
But if everybody sees a ban coming from a mile away, maybe the constant dissension of the onlookers/friends would be avoided. Instead of "YOU BANNED OLD JOE! ARRRRRGGGG!!!" people would say, "Well, hot-headed Old Joe got himself banned (again), LOL!"
Nobody will be happy all the time. I know I'm not, but there's no need to go into my little pet issue right now. I probably wouldn't ever get into it with an overall happier environment.
So I think the Off Season needs a cool down and a reboot, where we all start over happier, and the negative threads get locked right away with an upbeat message from the mod.
Maybe I'm too hopeful here? I just like what we have (had).
05-19-2010, 01:27 PM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,327
The problem with just banning the 'trouble makers' was that the mods were trying to be nice and only ban a the worst... but those had their fanboys who felt it necessary to then constantly go after the moderators. So then a couple more would get nixed and then the next wave of fanboys would cry about it.
I don't think they even really cared about the banned members they'd just rather cause trouble.
I don't think they even really cared about the banned members they'd just rather cause trouble.
sad part is those that are to blame probably don't see it that way.
05-19-2010, 04:12 PM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jax beach Fl. usa
Posts: 4,031
I think a cooling off period would be ... therapeutic. If/when it comes back, I would personally like to see thread locked instead of deleted. That way, the mod to lock it can provide an explanation. The "mystery" of disappearing threads works some people up. Plus, a lock can be temporary. Might make people a little happier, and happier people are less likely to make the inflammatory posts.
I'm on other forums, and there are systems warning 1-> warning, 2-> one month suspension,-> warning 1-> warning 2-> one month suspension, perma-ban. The mods check a box and the consequences are carried out automatically. Not much more work than deleting a thread. But the members see what's happening. Offending posts are edited, and the official warning is announced. No mystery. Not that I want to tell HNI how to run things, but one specific forum I belong to (an online game forum) runs very smoothly.
Also, there has been a tradition of being a little more lax in the off season. Maybe that time should end?
I have a different take on what you refer to as "fan boy." Because this forum is an online community, members develop a sense of ownership. It's not ownership in the sense of property rights, but a sense or feeling that goes along with belonging. When someone is kicked out, it violates that sense, and it effects others -- friends -- as well. So the way discipline is handled is critical.
In some cases, dissennsion may be unavoidable, like the way people trash a house just before they are foreclosed.
But if everybody sees a ban coming from a mile away, maybe the constant dissension of the onlookers/friends would be avoided. Instead of "YOU BANNED OLD JOE! ARRRRRGGGG!!!" people would say, "Well, hot-headed Old Joe got himself banned (again), LOL!"
Nobody will be happy all the time. I know I'm not, but there's no need to go into my little pet issue right now. I probably wouldn't ever get into it with an overall happier environment.
So I think the Off Season needs a cool down and a reboot, where we all start over happier, and the negative threads get locked right away with an upbeat message from the mod.
Maybe I'm too hopeful here? I just like what we have (had).
I'm on other forums, and there are systems warning 1-> warning, 2-> one month suspension,-> warning 1-> warning 2-> one month suspension, perma-ban. The mods check a box and the consequences are carried out automatically. Not much more work than deleting a thread. But the members see what's happening. Offending posts are edited, and the official warning is announced. No mystery. Not that I want to tell HNI how to run things, but one specific forum I belong to (an online game forum) runs very smoothly.
Also, there has been a tradition of being a little more lax in the off season. Maybe that time should end?
I have a different take on what you refer to as "fan boy." Because this forum is an online community, members develop a sense of ownership. It's not ownership in the sense of property rights, but a sense or feeling that goes along with belonging. When someone is kicked out, it violates that sense, and it effects others -- friends -- as well. So the way discipline is handled is critical.
In some cases, dissennsion may be unavoidable, like the way people trash a house just before they are foreclosed.
But if everybody sees a ban coming from a mile away, maybe the constant dissension of the onlookers/friends would be avoided. Instead of "YOU BANNED OLD JOE! ARRRRRGGGG!!!" people would say, "Well, hot-headed Old Joe got himself banned (again), LOL!"
Nobody will be happy all the time. I know I'm not, but there's no need to go into my little pet issue right now. I probably wouldn't ever get into it with an overall happier environment.
So I think the Off Season needs a cool down and a reboot, where we all start over happier, and the negative threads get locked right away with an upbeat message from the mod.
Maybe I'm too hopeful here? I just like what we have (had).
E2 I do agree somewhat with most of what you said, but there is more going on....
Some of the "fanboy" is true also....
I've been here for a long time and I've seen some things that I wish I hadn't.
I've seen people try to take advantage of the moderation team, and I've seen mods abuse their authority. It goes both ways. Unfortunately those mods who abuse their authority, and those who abuse the system(ordinary members) are the reason this has happened.
I remember when a mod would delete a post and give a warning, and that would be the end of it. But now it's gotten to the point where a mod does that and the poster cries about it and his/her fans cry also. Sorta like an Obama supporter. Wah, wah, wah...SO...the mods would just kick a field goal and delete the whole thing, no 'splainin' for the action...just to avoid all the grief from the "fanboy"
If only it was like it was ten years ago....
You get out of line, and a mod would say something, and you reply "sorry" and that'd be the end of it.
Now some people cry like 6 year olds...includng one or two of the mods, but that may be because some of the mods may not be PC enough withthe PMs they give people. I've seen some that basically said your on thin ice you do it once more and you are gone permanently!
I thought...what? my average is 1.32 posts per day??? and someone wants to do a permaban? Sure this is where attitude comes to play....
Instead of threatening someone, maybe there should be a warning? there is a difference between a warning and a threat.
Yes, I have seen some of the mods delete a post and give a warning, (only once for me, about 6 or 7 years ago) but I have seen a threat of a permaban (for me also, less than a year ago with no other warning...came right out of the blue...)
It's like someone getting right up in yer face, if'n ya know what I sayin'...
It's like a flame war, and only one of you will win, but ya gotsta at least stand up...
Anyway, I don't think many will see this post as it will be deleted and I might be permantly gone into the WWW.COM
Last edited by thundermug; 05-19-2010 at 04:23 PM.
05-20-2010, 04:57 AM
#14
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: ne bama
Posts: 6,340
its not always bad apples in a basket that cause the problem, sometimes its a basket with a bad handle
...while i'll agree that there were things and post that were going crazy in the off-season forum...there were also situations that were/are being handled in a terrible manner...just so the moderator on that post realizes i have not ever had a problem with him (LBR), but there is a rouge moderator that is simply detroying this site...just like this post below:
those are very taunting post and very un-professional..it is your site, run it like you desire, while it is/has been a very good site it is not the only site on the web....i am a memeber on several that i frequent (about 10) and this site is middle of the road for me at this time (still a great site) it used to be my first stop in the morning
, but if it continues in the direction its headed i believe you'll continue to see a decline in new membership or activity as a result... i hope thats not the case, but time will tell...
now if i have offended anyone i assure you that was not my intention, but if you look at a time-line of when these actions started happening i believe you'll find out what the primary detractor has been
if we want to play the "blame game" lets all make sure we get our fair share of the pie
What do you do if a forum moderator becomes hurtful to your forums rather than helpful? A WebmasterWorld thread asks this question based on negative actions performed by a moderator of his forum that resulted in loss of membership. Consequently, he also demoted the moderator.
...while i'll agree that there were things and post that were going crazy in the off-season forum...there were also situations that were/are being handled in a terrible manner...just so the moderator on that post realizes i have not ever had a problem with him (LBR), but there is a rouge moderator that is simply detroying this site...just like this post below:
Quote:
If it comes back that is...
Quote:
Nope. A couple bad apples ruined it for everyone else. The Admins had enough of it.
If it comes back that is...
Quote:
Nope. A couple bad apples ruined it for everyone else. The Admins had enough of it.
, but if it continues in the direction its headed i believe you'll continue to see a decline in new membership or activity as a result... i hope thats not the case, but time will tell...now if i have offended anyone i assure you that was not my intention, but if you look at a time-line of when these actions started happening i believe you'll find out what the primary detractor has been
if we want to play the "blame game" lets all make sure we get our fair share of the pie
What do you do if a forum moderator becomes hurtful to your forums rather than helpful? A WebmasterWorld thread asks this question based on negative actions performed by a moderator of his forum that resulted in loss of membership. Consequently, he also demoted the moderator.
What I’ve learned from this experience: 1)Never reward a member with a moderation spot just because they have been an active/long time poster. Find other ways to reward good members.
2)Look for warning signs that they might not be a good moderator. Do they get snippy or argue with other members? Are they very opinionated? Do they have an even temper? Have they been ‘know it all’ posters?
3)Avoid mixing moderators and friendship. When things go bad it’s hard to separate the two.
4)Make sure you have written rules on what the moderator job is and how they are expected to act and make sure the see them BEFORE you make them a moderator.
5)Chose a moderator as if you were hiring an employee. Will they represent you well both on and off the forums.
6)Remove moderators quickly if they are losing a forum.
Some people just take the power trip for personal gain. This quote by another member is so true for this instance:2)Look for warning signs that they might not be a good moderator. Do they get snippy or argue with other members? Are they very opinionated? Do they have an even temper? Have they been ‘know it all’ posters?
3)Avoid mixing moderators and friendship. When things go bad it’s hard to separate the two.
4)Make sure you have written rules on what the moderator job is and how they are expected to act and make sure the see them BEFORE you make them a moderator.
5)Chose a moderator as if you were hiring an employee. Will they represent you well both on and off the forums.
6)Remove moderators quickly if they are losing a forum.
" Power corrupts... and absolute power, corrupts absolutely"
Appointing moderators can be a pretty sticky situation if they are biased in such a way that it is destructive rather than helpful.Moderators who are immoderate and partial are very destructive, damaging users' trust. You can lose a lot of core/good members when even one mod gets rude/patronising/personal or is clearly editing in a partial or biased way!
Forum discussion at WebmasterWorld.
05-20-2010, 06:57 AM
#16
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 8,561
Maybe my post was too long, lol!
1) time off is probably good.
2) moderation to be objective, not subjective.
3) treat members (even when they are wrong) like they are important.
4) eliminate the mystery of disappearing posts.
5) to members -- make a fresh start with a positive attitude.
Thank you for your time!
1) time off is probably good.
2) moderation to be objective, not subjective.
3) treat members (even when they are wrong) like they are important.
4) eliminate the mystery of disappearing posts.
5) to members -- make a fresh start with a positive attitude.
Thank you for your time!
05-20-2010, 09:12 AM
#18
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Central Utah
Posts: 4,815
FYI, I am reading these. I just don't have the time to craft a post by post response right now.
I am taking into consideration all the posts/pm's and emails. Most are well reasoned and I appreciate it.
Two points I would like to make really quickly:
1) Moderating, by it's very nature, is going to be subjective. Some mods simply have thicker skin than others. This is neither good nor bad.. it just is. Some issues will really push certain moderator's buttons while others couldn't care less. Some will find a photo 'too racy', others will delete threads for content when I might just scratch my head and wonder what the fuss is about. The only thing we hope for is that we can find some semblance of consistency... which we are working on.
M T Hands, "Quote:
If it comes back that is...
Quote:
Nope. A couple bad apples ruined it for everyone else. The Admins had enough of it. "
This is an example of the subjectiveness. I don't really see a problem with this answer. However, I guess given some past history with a moderator it could be taken as 'snippy'.
2) Sometimes a thread or post (or user) is deleted without an explanation because none is needed. By the time a problem gets to the point where I have to step in, I am likely to employ a scorched earth policy rather than reading through 50 pages of posts and users' histories. This is why users need to work with the moderators a little better and avoid it becoming an admin issue. Having said that.. we are going try to give you guys/gals better feedback about why/what we're doing. This whip cracking is going both ways on this.
If you have a moderation question for the admins please use [email protected] .
Thanks!
I am taking into consideration all the posts/pm's and emails. Most are well reasoned and I appreciate it.
Two points I would like to make really quickly:
1) Moderating, by it's very nature, is going to be subjective. Some mods simply have thicker skin than others. This is neither good nor bad.. it just is. Some issues will really push certain moderator's buttons while others couldn't care less. Some will find a photo 'too racy', others will delete threads for content when I might just scratch my head and wonder what the fuss is about. The only thing we hope for is that we can find some semblance of consistency... which we are working on.
M T Hands, "Quote:
If it comes back that is...
Quote:
Nope. A couple bad apples ruined it for everyone else. The Admins had enough of it. "
This is an example of the subjectiveness. I don't really see a problem with this answer. However, I guess given some past history with a moderator it could be taken as 'snippy'.
2) Sometimes a thread or post (or user) is deleted without an explanation because none is needed. By the time a problem gets to the point where I have to step in, I am likely to employ a scorched earth policy rather than reading through 50 pages of posts and users' histories. This is why users need to work with the moderators a little better and avoid it becoming an admin issue. Having said that.. we are going try to give you guys/gals better feedback about why/what we're doing. This whip cracking is going both ways on this.
If you have a moderation question for the admins please use [email protected] .
Thanks!
and thats all we could ask.........
05-20-2010, 10:49 AM
#20
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 8,561
Moderating, by it's very nature, is going to be subjective.
Whether rule #3 truly applies may be debatable(the subjective part), but everyone knows why the thread was locked (the objective part).
Here's where it works in HNI's favor. Someone starts a new thread about the locked one, it gets deleted or locked with, "PM mod directly for this discussion." or something like that. If the PM leads to a resolution, the the thread could be unlocked, if the truth warrants it.