Desert Stryker..
 

I will never give up my Excalibur, but I do have room for another bow or two..
I ran in to a Stryker today, I like the feel,I like the numbers (not the ones on the price tag) and I like the looks.
Have they stopped the issues with these things? All I remember in the beginning is hearing horror stories of destruction on the bow it's self. It wont be a purchase this year , but may be in my future.
Have they made them so they don't self destruct yet?

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

The DS is discontinued for next year, used ones do not have a transferable warranty, and yes the bugs are gone. All of this is from what I've read. I did get a chance on the buff hunt to shoot the full bore Stryker. Fast, accurate and nice trigger. Weighed a ton. Have you shot Don's Paradox? Only 10 fps diff w/ 20 grain lighter arra. Wonderful warranty, lol.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

The big issue was cured last year with a trigger re-design. Like any laminated limb bow, there were a few failures, but I had a Phantom that blew up twice on a customer, so unless every other bow I sell has a problem I dont think it a design issue so much as a crap happens issue in any production item. The DS has been discontinued and a new, faster bow the Strike Force is replacing it. It is pretty much an identical bow except the re-enforced the limbs (they are now 190lbs) added basicly an STS system, got rid of that butt ugly desert camo and have HD green (plus some options) and it clocks 385fps. I personaly had great luck with the DS and own one myself. I will have the very first Strike Forces here in two days so I will do a review on it once they show up. As far as buying a DS, if that is the bow you want, you may have issues finding it later in the year as these new bows replace it.I only have one left and it is my personal and is custom camoed.

Wyvern

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

I also own a Desert Stryker that I bought after a Limited Edition recurve bow I bought turned out to be the biggest P.O.S I've ever owned or seen. Just goes to show you that any manufacturer can make a lemon.

You couldn't pry my DS away from me. It is fast, super accurate, fairlly quiet with no add ons, nicely narrow and not real heavy. The new Stryke Force is supposely lighter, quieter and faster. That should be one helluva a bow to see and shoot.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Says you. I've read most of your diatribes on the various forums, and while we are all entitled to our opinions, mine is yer a windbag, lol.

If I coulda got my grubby little paws on that Y25, I'd of proved it.

Merry Christmas.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Does anyone know the price of the Strykeforce yet? Jus wondering!!!!

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

It is the exact same price as the DS. $899 for the stripped model and $999 for the "kit". I JUST got 4 in and will be doing a very quick review on it before I shlep to NY for the holidays

Wyvern

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

I don't think you were alone on that one Dan.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Yup, we are all entittled to our own opinions. Intelligent people don't voice opinions. Intelligent poeple also tend to have facts before they voice an opinion. But then there arethose who haven't the foggiest idea what occurred , I have learned to expect comments such as posted. There are those resident legends in their own mind, who believe the know everything about every situation.I just consider the source, as it is alwaystheir display of ignorance, stupidity and severe inbreeding. I could stoop to the same bottom feeding, scum sucking level and voice my opinion of a few people , but I won't. They're not worth the time it takes to type the words

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Intellegent people don't sling insults in every direction where ever they go.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Sorry but as far as the last two sentences go, you contradict what you say. Do you remember telling everyone to go F**k themselves and a few other insults when you were not happy about your Y25? Or how about at Crossbow Nation when someone kidded you a bit? I am sure you've burnt a few bridges at a few forums.
Everyone is interested in your experiences but not your brand of wild burst of insults at both man and machine. Even your "friends" refer to you as having a smoldering fuse.
Intelligent people do voice opinions like David and we listen to him and respect him. Bitting, flighting and name calling turns and opinion into an insult and is rarely regarded positive. Cut the insults and you'll find respect and may be admiration around each post you make at all of the forums.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

DNK:
I do not look for respect from you nor from Awshucks, nor several other people who frequent the forums. If what I say goes against their grain, so be it. I'm not losing any sleep over it. If people insult me they can expect the same in reply!!
If I think a product such as the Y25 I owned is a POS then I say so. If people don't like my opinion it's no loss to me. I know what I had and how it performed, it is evident that certain people only want to hear positive things about anything. Won't happen from me unless it happens to be a positive experience,

Whether I am short fused or not, that'sthe way I am. I know full well who my friends are , and I also know those who pretend to be. If people don't like me or the way I am they can go F__K themselves. They are the losers not me!! I don't deny telling people that and I will say it again when it needs to be said.

I don't want or need your advice so keep it to yourself.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

But Darrel, there is no need for the abrasiveness whatsoever. You know that, I know that, we all know it. Can't you bring yourself to round a few edges off? If not to gain respect but maybe not to rub others the wrong way for no reason?

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

I usually do not get involved in threads that bash people, use profanity or just plain are there to cause problems.I also did alot of reading to get up to speed as to what all happened. I probually do not know everything, but I read enough to know basicly what has happened. Yes, people have the right to put forth their opinion and what they think. But it is that, an opinion and not fact on any paticular product. The great thing in this world is that everyone is different and like different things, again that is a person preferance or opinion.

But honestly DaGriz, your above quote .......... just because someone does not like you ... they are losers. Again that is just a personal preferance or opinion, and is what you are claiming that you have the right to put forth. If you have the right to put forth an opinion, they they do as well.

Now about the bow and your review (personal opinion that is). I have never fired the Relayer Y25 but have handled a few and have found them to be a great fit for me. I have also shot and hunted with crossbows for almost 30 years so I do know a little about them. I have also been around many Excalibur Crossbows (have owned one for over 25 years, orginal Relayer) so I know the dependability that goes into each bow. I also know that if there are problems with one specific bow that has been made, the Excalibur company will make things right, that is just the way that they are (in manufacturing mistakes can happen, you know, people do build them). Your claims that the arrow speed is just not there, I can't see that unless you have done something to cause this by accident. After I read that you had another bow from a different Manufacture and had the same claim that it did not achive it's advertized speeds, I think that maybe your Crono needs to be checked out. I think it's important to the image to Excalibur that they not miss lead hunters or shooters and I have never known them to miss lead customers with speeds that can't be obtained with normal hunting arrows. Some compamies use arrows that you can't hunt with or shoot on a regular basis to get their speeds, not Excalibur. This is from being around them and many of their bows for over 25 years.

Now about forums. When you post something on forums like this, new people, who come here to learn can and probually will read it as gospel. Remember that if you bash people, products or organizations, or use profanity, you only lower your opinions in other people's minds. The use of well stated opinions, facts will only carry your opinions to a higher level.

For the people that do know me, they know that I could care less if you like me or not (so do not call me a loser :D). I do not know you, so Ihonestly do not have an opinion as to if I like you or not.I did not reply here to center you out or to attack you personally. I did it because I do not like forums that attack people or their opinions (know matter who is doing the attacking) and have left some forums for that reason.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

I hate to say it, but you are wrong here...Excal does not make, or sell a 350grain arrow. You cannot buy their bow, and their arrows, and achieve their "advertized" speeds. Will they get those speeds? yes, but I have to explain to my customers that the "305fps" listed on a Pheonix will really be 285ish with a "hunting weight arrow" even if they buy a "right stuff" package and use an "excalibur" arrow. I just pulled out another manufactures bow and came within 6fps of advertized speed with a slightly heavier than factory arrow. You cannot do that with an Excal. Though a great bow with many fine features and a great performer, their advertising is deceptive to the novice archer and TenPoint to be "competitive" did the same missleading advertising. I would sell more Excals and TenPoint recurves if the speeds listed could be achieved with the factory arrows and not some custom built arrow that is on the ragged edge of causing a dry fire...

Wyvern

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

I'm sure you know that this is common on many bows David and one should expect it. I am not saying it is right but compound bow manufactures do it as well. I don't want to use an IBO set up for hunting. The arrow would be to fragile, I would not have a rear peep or kisser button and I'd have to give up my serving and loop. I know it's an old discussion but all manufacturers should get their act together and agree on one MO. But is it going to happen? Not!
I got a 350 gr hunting arrow by taking a 340 Fatboy and cutting it down to 19", cutting my rear insert in half and then using Blazers. Does it shoot? You bet! Does it get 330 ft/sec? You bet! Did I get upset because I had to work to get the 350 gr arrow? No, because I've bought enough equipment that didn't acheive advertised speeds before these bows. I'm not disagreeing with you David, I'm agreeing with you but with qualification of my comment.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

I agree that IBO is annoying as well. One of the diferances though is that for lack of a better term crossbows are shooting out of a "machine" since they are shot at full draw all the time. I have not found factory speeds that far off with the other manufacuturers I sell when using their factory arrows. You are experienced enough to know that if you pick up an Excal off the shelf, stick in a factory arrow and shoot it it will not shoot the advertized speeds, but I can pick up any TenPoint(except their recurves)or Parker and get what they claim or darn close with the factory arrow. I get calls all the time where people are comparing bows and hear "Well, the Vortex shoots the same speed as the "X"" and when I tell them that it will not they feel like they are being lied to by Excal and buy the other brand. In compounds, it has been arround so long it is expected, but crossbows are attracting a diferant crowd such as novice archers and it is not right to "fluff" your speed numbers (not right for compounds either). If you could buya 350gr arrow from Excal then it would not be so deceptive. It would simply be a point of saying that the speeds can be achieved if you buy "this optional arrow", but that is not the case. Your average guy who reads all the "Excal is the greatest thing since sliced bread!" comments on these threads is going to look at the website, see 305fps, "may" read the little footnote, then buy the bow and rightstuff package and think he is getting 305fps when reality is 285fps. I gave Tenpoint crap at the last ATA show when they claimed 300fps with their recurve and I found out it was with a 350gr arrow. MY first questions was "are you going to be selling 350gr arrows?" when the answer was "no" I told them I thought that was deceptive advertizing. Their response was it was how they had to compete with Excal. You are right, the compound industry will not change, but crossbows only have this issue in the recurve end. It is not too late to change...all Excal and Tenpoint have to do to at least take the deceptive part out of the advertizing is to offer 350gr arrows. I dont see where this is a real problem.
Wyvern

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

I think they came real close at one time.

The GT's that came w/ a Right Stuff package I bought in 2004 [?] weighed 357 gr and I got 350 fps out of the Emax I shot them from. They had alum inserts and nocks and 5" vanes.

I know they changed from them somewhere along the line, but not sure when or why.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Excal does put the arrow weight at the bottom of the bow's page in red! Ten Point does not!

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Don, isn't the 'Firebolt" standard issue now? Aren't they around 380 gr? Admittedly, that's enough over 350 to keep them from getting max fps even w/ FFF strings.

Maybe the switch by GT to the thinner walled shafts has something to do w/ it all. a custom arrow maker on Excal was lamenting the fact he could,'t get 350 gr w/ them as the 'old' components came to 330 gr.

Excal could have got 350ish w/ them by providing 125 gr points, but suspect that would have turned into a disaster w/ guys going to 100 gr and being under limit.

Here's more trivia, lol. Many of us know Miller dances to the beat of his own drum [said fondly] but back in '04 he told me he didn't even carry the minimum weight GT's. His all had brass inserts and 4" vanes vs 5".

I recently weighed some he provided w/ an Emax, GT's brass, 4" vanes, 408 gr. What I don't know is if they were in a RS package or not.

I'm glad I don't have to sell them, lol. Wyvern is not the only one that doesn't care for this situation, [don't blame him either]met a dealer in Knoxville that carried on for a half hour on his dis-satisfaction. He sold his stock at wholesale and quit carrying them.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Dan, do you remember the discrepancy between the old and new Gold tip shafts? It was last year at your place. I suspect the difference has to do with the older thinner shafts.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Yeah, but I have it reversed in my memory, the new ones are the thinner and lighter. Think it's 1.1 gr per inch diff and .007" on OD. I think the old miked .345" and the new .338" by dial calipers.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

I haven't visited this site for a while.............................man!

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Hi All,

For the record, our crossbows will shoot as advertised...I know since I helped Bill shoot every crossbow model with various arrow/string setups. We did all testing inside using our chronograph. Our results are posted here:

http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/demo/m/content/article.php?content_id=132

It's true that the crossbow will not shoot at advertised speedwith the standard Excel string but it sure will with the Dyna Flight string. And for those interested the reason we do not sell the crossbows with the Dyna Flight string is to help prevent damage if a new user happens to dry fire his crossbow.

There is always talk about crossbows not shooting as advertised (not just ours BTW), remember there are many variables including chronographs. We work hard at publishing realistic numbers for our crossbowsperformance figures and don't make this stuff up.

Please contact me if you have any questions or concerns.

Peter Balfour
Excalibur Crossbow Inc.
519-740-6890

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

I think that you need to rethink what you said above. In my statement I said that Excalibur uses Regular Hunting Arrows in their speed readings. As a regular hunting arrow, That is an arrow which can be safely used and not under their recomended safety standards. The fact that they do not personally sell an arrow at that weight does not really matter, the fact is there are plenty of people that can build and sell them all the time. I bet I could contact more then a few different people on the internet and in a very short while have that weight arrow on the way to me if I want it. I bet if you even searched well enough you could find a store or two that sold arrows like that.

Now there are bow companies that use arrows to achieve arrow speeds that are under their min. safety weight restrictions. I can remember reading that these companies would actually print that if they used those arrows for hunting, not only would they risk injury and damage to their bows, but their warranty would be void. Now this is totally deceiving!

As the dude said above, there are many variables in achieving arrow speeds. Now only does the string (type of) matter, it's brace height, arrow weight, type of fletch and most importantly the crono itself could be reading wrong. And I do like a company that sells their products with the safety in mind of the bow and purchaser. The standard string will not get those speeds, but they are more safe for the first timer or novice. If a mistake occures with these strings (more stretch in this string), there are likly less dammage to the bow or the shooter. A dryfire with this string and more then likely there will be no damage. If my memory is correct, it was reported that they dry fired, on purpose, over 30 times with this string and no damage (I believe with the 175 or 200lb bow).They have always stated that the shooter will need the faster strings to obtain the faster speeds.

Now I am not telling you how to do business but if your statement of that you could sell more Ten Points & Excaliburs if they sold that weight arrow, then I would be either building my own at that weight or getting them from someone else to include with the bows. It would probually raise the profit margin as well :D. BTW, that weight of arrow with an Excalibur is not on the ragged edge of a dry fire. They can be shot and shot and shot because they are within their safety margin, put forth by them. With your thinking, I believe that your confusing them with the companies that use arrows which are under the safety margins for their speed tests.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

"The fact that they do not personally sell an arrow at that weight does not really matter"

Yes, it does...I never said they would not shoot what they claim with the weight arrow and string upgrade. My issue is that the little asterix and the fact that you cant buy the components from the factory is an issue. If you went to buy a car that claimed 400HP and you found out that the only way to achieve that is to go to a speed shop and add on a bunch of aftermarket parts you would be pretty ticked. That is the issue here. The factory arrows are 370gr with a 100gr tip (just weighed one) By your chart the Phoenix shoots 288fps with that arrow. Can custom arrows be made? Yes, but I can pick up a factory package from other manufacturers and shoot what they claim. It just makes for more explaination to the customer so he does not go home and shoot thru a chrono and call back thinking something is wrong with his bow and then get ticked that it shoots 20fps slower than it is advertised. Dry fire is not an issue at 350gr I agree, but it is listed as the "minimum" you should shoot. All I am saying is that if they are going to list these speeds then supply the arrows that can do it. If not, list the speeds you can get with the factory arrow. If people want more speed I will be happy to make 350gr arrows, but the speeds listed should be what you can get with the 370gr arrows that come from the factory. You can ask anyone who has inquired about a TenPoint recurve from me that I state upfront that it will not shoot what they claim. I am not bashing Excals bows here, just the speed numbers that people are looking at when they go to buy the bow.

Wyvern

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

You were up front with me when I bought my Curve,I knew at the
get go what to expect,appreciated the stats you sent with the bow!;)

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

And to think................I shoot 481 grain Power Bolt arrows in my Vortex:-) For hunting, especially with a heavy limbed recurve crossbow, I see no practical advantageingoing with extremely light weight arrows in an effort to get a few more fps. Too bad that so much importance is put on gaining speed at the expense of shootability, vibration, accuracy in somecases and noise.

Where speed is a priority, like hunting situations around fieldswhere it's likely to get longer shots, I'll go with a crossbow designed to shoot 350 fps with a 425 grain arrow.................not a 350 grain arrow.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

I guess you've never hear the name Weatherby:D. Highly successful at marketing his rifles spitting out ultra high speed bullets! Flattest shooting with less margin for error. It's the America's "need for speed" and the marketing that satisfies it! Marketing + speed = sales. It's a mentality that won't quit. Sad but true. I think many will buy the bow that shoots a lighter arrow because it will apparently shoot flatter and leave you with less margin for error. I have two chronagraphs but I don't use them to find out how fast my arrows are out of my bows for hunting purposes because I don't care.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

I know speed sells :-) In the face of that, I stillthink Excal should market its recurvecrossbows differently becase they do not have a speed edge competing with compound crossbows unless they use extemely light weight arrows that I, and lots of other crossbow hunters, will not hunt with.

Excal's recurve crossbows shoot heavy hunting arrows with "authority" :-) For example, going from a 425 grain arrow to a 480 grain arrow in a compound crossbow will likely result in 25 fps in speed loss. A 200 lb draw Excal will lose only approximatley 12 fps by adding the same 55 grains to the arrow weight. With that in mind, I think Excal should always be touting its crossbows as great crossbows for shooting heavy hunting arrows. Even the speed fanatics can't argue with KE and penetration power. Another plus for this concept is that Excals shoot so much smoother and quieter with fantastic accuracy with heavy hunting arrows. I believe if Excal's marketing materials and salesbrochurespresented this angle rather than the silly 350 grain arrow speed angle, it would certainly not hurt their sales and many crossbow hunterswouldsee the heavy arrow logic as a real advantage.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Sorry that your so ticked off about that they do sell a heavier arrow. An arrow that is safer for the shooter and the equipment. Not only that, but it is also more quiet.

Lets go to your anoligy of the car ............ Lets say the manufacture listed it's speed from 0-60 MPH was 3.5 seconds but they did their tests with RACING SLICKS but they sold the car with QUALITY ROAD SPORTTIRES. Everyone knows that the racing slicks will out preform the Road tires so the purchaser will not get from 0-60 in the 3.5 seconds. Does this mean that all vehical manufactures are misleading when they post their speed 0-60 ratios (They probually do not use slicks in their tests, but they will be tires which are not sold with the vehical). This comparison is alot closer to what is happening with the crossbow here then your 400HP as the horse power is there no matter what arrow you use just not the speed.

I guess you do not understand what Excalibur is about. They build crossbows for hunters by hunters. They hunt themselves so they understand that DEPENDABILITY is MOST IMPORTANT and therefore they sell their packages to reflect that. The speed they show or list is what the bow can get under normal shooting or usage without going below the minimal arrow weight. To me, there is nothing wrong with that no matter who company is. What does bother me is when a company lists a speed that was achived with an arrow below min. arrow weight, that is misleading if not fraud. The heavier arrow will quiet the bow. If the company was to list both the arrow speeds and noise level are they susposed to list the fastest speeds possible and the quietest level achived. If so, they will never achive both in the same setup as the heavier arrow will be slower, but more quiet.

Now strings can vary to a great degree. I am not sure how many Excalibur sells anymore but they have always said that the Dacron was again more quiet and less stressful on the bow. Also using the Dacron was more forgiving with new shooters with mistakes like dry fires and some older bows can't shoot newer strings (carved tips). What Excalibur sells in their packages is not to misslead the customer, but to lead them in a dirrection which is more dependable for the Equipment. The more dependable the product, the better not only Exclibur will look, but the whole crossbow world. When I first got into crossbows, the best, most reliable bow on the market was a Astro Daco and by todays standards a 12 pound trigger and awkward safety (had to push in while pulling the trigger) ........ well lets just leave that at that .......:D:D:D. Companies like Excalibur and Ten Point had a major battle to improve the image of crossbows as dependable accurate hunting equipment. I think that they have done a great job.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

"I guess you do not understand what Excalibur is about."

Sorry Tom but I think I have at least half a clue about what I am doing and I sell quiet a few Excals. You are missing my point here, I am not questioning any aspect of Excal other than what happens when I as a retailer have to deal with a customer that is missinformed about a product. I am not ticked off, just frustrated. You have the advantage of being one person who has done his homework and understands the advertized speeds on this bow are correct with the 350gr arrow and you have no issue either sacrificing speed when using the heavier arrow that comes with the bow or buying/building lighter arrows to achieve the speed they list. I have the disadvantage of getting phone calls from novices who read these posts and the adds and do not do their homework and expect 305fps from a bow that will only shoot 288 with the components they can buy from the manufacture. Is that drop in speed a big deal? Not to a deer, but to a consumer who is reading one thing and getting another it is a big deal. Here is what I have to deal with all the time:

"I was looking at either an Excal Phoenix or the TenPoint Profusion. They both shoot the same speed so which one should I get?" I now have to follow with "Well, they really dont shoot the same speed. If I custom make really light arrows for you and upgrade your string they will, but out of the box the Profusion will be faster". At that point I end up selling the Profusion because the customer generaly feels that they were lied to.Quality, dependability, whatever, at that point it matters very little the customer feels that Excals performance was fluffed (even though it can be achieved safely) and he then questions whatELSE may not be "correct" with Excalibur. Was the information on the string upgrade and light arrows there? Yes. Did they READ it??? NO!! Welcome to retail where the lowest common denominator sets the standard. Many people will not read that little footnote.

Now with vertical bows the IBO speeds are such crap that it is a joke. No "human" will shoot what they claim without either breaking the bow or making it so loud and shock filled as to be useless. Crossbows however have the advantage of being consistant in the way they launch an arrow.Crossbow customersseem to have more of an expectation that crossbows will shoot what they claim than vertical customers. That is where I have run into issues.

As far as the automotive analogy the engine one is a better one since HP ratings have to be certified by an independant company where performance of a given vehical can be greatly enhanced just by a good driver.

All I am saying is that if a company (TenPoint recurves included here mind you and probably Parker with THEIR new recurves next year) is going to claim a speed then supply the components that will allow that bow to achieve those speeds or list the speeds that can be achieve with the components you do supply.....its too late for the vertical industry but the crossbow end can easily set this inplace.

Wyvern

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

They have done a great job. I dropped my Vortex out of my tree stand at 17 feet with literally no damage to it............................but the 350 grain arrow thing is still silly

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Wow DaGriz, your a wonderful person a class act! so you got a POS by your words. some how it seemed to have gotten lost being shipped back to dealer ! now your going off again on ppl. i really don't understand why you dislike everyone. Tis very sad i feel for you & i hope some happyness comes to you, have a good one. :)

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Your correct that I am one person that does his homework on a product. When I got my first Excalibur crossbow (the orginalRelayer) a long time ago, I did alot of quick research into this company. I bought it dirrectly from Bill & Kathy and picked it up dirrectly from the Farm, where they first started out building the bows. Yes I paid more money then if I bought it from a store, but I wanted the personalcontact with the company which to this day still comes from them.

I can understand some of your frustration. You see, I have been putting up with novice questions on crossbows for a very long time. Some of these questions are lazy questions (not doing research or the proper reading) and others can be attribuated to the nonsense coming from the anti-crossworld which people tend to believe. I feel that I have the responsibility to teach because I know because I have been around this sport for a long time. I have said this before, The only dumb question is a question not asked! I have been trying to educate people on crossbows for many many years, even before I came onto the internet.

I still think that you are missing what Excalibur is about. They are not about Speed bows, they are about dependable, safe hunting equipment. Yes they say that their bows can achive a certain speed with a certain arrow and certain string, but they feel dependability and safety is more important so they sell standard equipment wich is on the safer side of things so you get a slower speeds. This is not saying that using the 350gr arrow or other string is not safe, IT IS. It is just that with the standard equipment there is more foregiveness if the user makes a mistake like a dryfire. Believe it or not ..... many people do dryfire their crossbows, even the exterianced shooters, not just the rookies. Maybe you should explain this to the new purchaser not just sorta misslead them yourself by saying because I know that Excalibur can achive their quoted speeds with hunting arrows.

It is unfortant but with crossbows being new (but only to a few, they have been around alot longer then compounds) but there will be those that either do not understand or do only believe what they hear from others (which many do not understand what they say). Because of this, we (you , me and others) have to educate people to the truths on crossbows. This includes not only the speed factors (what is needed to achive the fastest speeds safely, if speed is the factor) but the safety factor in maintaining a bow for an extreem long period of time. If this means explaing that the dacron string, heavier arrow will cause less stress on the equipment, then we need to state that.

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

I really dont understand how you feel I am still "missing what Excalibur is all about"?? I fully understand the dependable, safe, quality thing, if I didnt I would not sell them.Those aspects were never in question and I most certainly do explain those qualities when noting the features of the bow.

"This is not saying that using the 350gr arrow or other string is not safe, IT IS. It is just that with the standard equipment there is more foregiveness if the user makes a mistake like a dryfire. Believe it or not ..... many people do dryfire their crossbows, even the exterianced shooters, not just the rookies. Maybe you should explain this to the new purchaser not just sorta misslead them yourself by saying
[blockquote]quote:

"Well, they really dont shoot the same speed.[/blockquote]
because I know that Excalibur can achive their quoted speeds with hunting arrows. "

Well, first off, snipping out that one part took my statement out of context. The full line is:
""Well, they really dont shoot the same speed. If I custom make really light arrows for you and upgrade your string they will, but out of the box the Profusion will be faster". "

That is not missleading, it is stating a fact and answering the customers question as to comparative speeds. If I took your suggestion and changed it to:
"well, the Profusion will be faster if you use Tenpoint arrows than the Excalibur will with their factory arrows and factory installed string. The reason is thatif and when you happen to dryfire theExcalibur, because unlike the Profusion it has no anit-dryfire mechanism, the heavier arrows and stretchier string will help prevent bow damage". Where is THAT an improvement??? Now I just scared the customer that the Excal can and will potentialy blow up on him if he is not extreamly careful and it is still not as fast as the Profusion using factory equipment.

Speed is not everything, and IMO, it is only a factor if the customer really feels it is. My problem is that in many instaces it is the first thing asked about and tip-toeing around what is listed and what will be achieved without resorting to custom built components is unnessicary. All it would take is a factory 350gr Excalibur arrow.

Wyvern

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Someone should bury that dead horse!

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Ya know, you are right...I am just talking Greek here anyway and facts dont seem to really matter.
Wyvern

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Do you really think that the "anit-dryfire mechanism" is the best thing for a crossbow, if so then you need to take a second look at the issue. Excalibur chooses to not include the anti-dryfire because it is a mechanical device and Mechanical Devices should never be trusted in safety situations ( if you go though a safety coarse (electrical, mechanical ect)and trust a mechanical device for your safety, witout locking out, you will fail around here). You see, mechanical devices do have a tendicy in time to fail, when and were noone will ever know so it is better to develop safe shooting practices right from the beginning and not rely on a device. These devices are also something else which can go wrong with the bow. KISS method...... Keep It Simple.

You are correct that if the customer wants speed, that for him that is the important factor, but your blank statement that they are missleading the customer because factory equipment they can't get their advertised speeds is just plain silly. I contacted a location today and asked if I could get an Excalibur Crossbow, and arrows from them to achive the advertised speeds. The answer was yes but they would have to sell after market arrows (not excalibur brand), he would substitute to a different string& 100gr headsto go with the lighter weight, but everything was still safe to shoot. There was no need for the seller to get into deep conversation about this or that, only that the manufactur sold heavier weighted arrows and not the lighter but he carried the lighter arrows in the store. He did not tell me that the lighter arrow would make the bow more loud or that what was the reason Excalibur sold their bows with the Dacron or heavier arrows, he just wanted to fill my order to achive the rated speeds, there was no problem for his store.

I guess my training in SAFETY, that becomes the most important fact for me ............ SAFETY FIRST

RE: Desert Stryker..
 

Yep...you are right...Excalibur is the greatest thing since sliced bread and I need to change my approach to consumer questions. Argument done....

Wyvern