Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

Matt / PA

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I'm not going to get drawn into a gigantic debate over this thing again but will only say that I will NEVER be in favor of X-Bows in the regular archery season and will lay out how I feel about it one big fat rant.

You want to see 270,000 Bowhunters turn into what?.......maybe 5-600,000 "Bowhunters" in a shorter season?
There's a win win huh? We'll start Oct 1st or so be done by 3rd week in Oct, lose the rut and every Remington 760 toting yeehaw will be scrambling for any crossbow they can afford.
Oh yeah.......and we'll be wearing orange while we do it.[:o]

You guys in crossbow states currently have ZERO clue what PA is truly like. Spend a lifetime hunting here as a resident on anything but a family owned posted to the gills property and you'll understand why this is a bad idea.

And this comes from a guy who is a rep for a company currently producing 2 of the most advanced and currently the most powerful crossbow on the market.
You guys who think rifle hunters are going to take a close up archery style mentality into the woods with them are BONKERS. :eek:Have you shot a new Bowtech Stryker? I can clank bolts together at 75 yards and still over 350fps at that range.

This is NOT archery hunting fellas and I don't really want to hear the crap about compounds being not much less than a crossbow. I shoot both.(Hell I shoot EVERYTHING.....flintlock, inline, rifle, pistol, compound and longbow and recurve)
There is no comparison to a bow you must draw, and hold back (I don't care about let off either, you still must draw and physically hold the bow out and there is a finite amout of time it can be done) VS cocking a 350-400fps weapon and resting it on a shooting stick until you flip the safety off look through the scope and shoot.

I can go on and on and on..........this united we stand devided we fall crap doesn't fly in this case, it doesn't. It's not a bow and is not an equal.......Crossbows do not fit in a season and state where we have the numbers of particpants that we do already sharing the same 2 months. We have small game seasons, turkey season, youth rifle season a week long early muzzleloader season all already cutting into the archery season and flooding the woods with people.
You do NOT want archery season turned into something resembling our general firearms season in the name of "Lets not bicker amongst ourselves" Don't get fooled into that logic.

It's hard enough to find any peace in what should be a peaceful season, so lets most likely double that participation in one season and see what happens?

If shooting a compound is so friggin easy.......that's the big argument. Compounds are so technoligically advanced and simple to master then put the 760 down and pick up a compound and give it a whirl, then pick up a scoped 350-400fps crossbow and tell me how they compare.
If a crossbow is NOT a bow, not held by hand,or drawn by handthen it doesn't belong in an ARCHERY SEASON forsame reason a rifle or pistol doesn't.
IF you want to participate in the archery season simply pick up one of these super easy to learn and master compounds I keep hearing about and welcome aboard. I can be the first person you seek for advice.
How can someone in favor of crossbows use the argument that a compound is so much like a crossbow.......I've even heard people say a compound is EASIER>[:-]LOL If that's the case pick one up and show me how easy it is. Why do you need to have your 175# 400fps shooting cocked and locked crossbow if my compound is so easy to use?

Crossbows might be a viable TOOL for management in a state where there are low hunter numbers yadda yadda but PA is, has been and always will be THE single most dysfunctional state in the country with respect to its hunting regulations, population and the general mindset of the hunters within it's boundaries. YOU simply cannot use ANY state as a model for what will happen here. It's a zoo now so lets screw it up even further if we can.

So who's with me!? Yes PA Game Commission please , please allow us to add another couple hundred thousand don't have the skill to use a "Simple" compound hunters to our season and while you are at it feel free to shorten it by 2-4 weeks to compensate and while you are at it can we also wear 250 square inches of orange too? I can't get enough of an orange blob behind every tree having to "Get their buck" for 2 weeks in December so please bring that joy to us a little earlier in the season where at least I won't be freezing my butt off. :eek:

< Message edited by Matt / PA -- 7/4/2008 11:10:44 PM >

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RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

Typical "my season, my deer, we're special in my state, the sky if falling " anti rant. Heard it all before. Another greedy hunter who wants to exclude others because archery is my season.

Whether he's a rep or not it's going to take a long time before xbows are considered archery by people with his mindset.

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

he may rep for Bowtech, and claim to shoot CB's. he must get paid to do that at their shop. just another person who wants all the tick toters for himself. dollar to a dime at heart he doesn't anyone to hunt but himself . a Mod of what and where ?

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

Under Crossbows on the main menu"This is not a crossbow debate forum"
Moderators should delete this post I feel.

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

I am not against using crossbows but I am against them being used in the ARCHERY ONLY season, I agree with the above statement to an extent unless you have a disability then you should be allowed to archery hunt with a crossbow in the ARCHERY ONLY season. In Texas you can use a crossbow in the general season and that is where a crossbow needs to be, I feel it is just like a rifle or any other gun in the fact that you do not have to get drawn on an animal, you only have to point and shoot!!!!!!! It is the same as a guy wanting to use a deer rifle in the muzzle loader only season.....

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

really ? i see you don't use any acrhery Bows or equipment. so why are you on a CB forum TexasBowHunter ?

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

To answer your question, NO. Not the ones that sell a bunch of crossbows.

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

I saw this post before...If he was my "rep" he would be looking for another job. I am fairly sick of this attitude especialy from a company that MAKES crossbows. IMO, if you REP for a company, you SPEAK for that company, and this guy needs a pink slip.

I think I will be making a few phone calls on monday...

Wyvern

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

Here ya go Tex!!

Cocked, locked and ready to rock..

The Concept99 Compound Bow

http://www.conceptarchery.com/

The Concept 99 Compound has a let off of 99%. That means that a bowhunter pulling 60 pounds will have a holding weight of 6/10s of a pound.

Now here is the "Cocked, locked and ready to rock" part of the Concept 99.

I attended the ATA trade show in Indianapolis a few years back and visited the Concept 99 booth. The owner demonstrated the bow to my son and myself. Quite interesting.

My son shot the bow and said it was nothing like he had ever shot before. As a request he held it back for more than 3 minutes. He finally shot as his arm was getting tired holding up the 3 1/2 pound bow.

He then pulled it back and rested the bottom limb on his leg so that he did not have to hold the weight of the bow up. He could do that all day long. The bow is pulled back - "Cocked, locked and ready to rock".

The owner also demonstrated another way to be "Cocked, locked and ready to rock".

He pulled the bow back, aimed it at the floor and released the handle of the bow. The 3 1/2 pound bow handle kept the bow at full draw even though he was not holding the handle. Remeber all the bow is at is 6/10s of a pound holding so the 3 1/2 pound riser weight offsets that. He was still holding the string with the hande just dangling. However, he was told by his insurance carrier to not promote the bow that way.

What does that mean to a bowhunter using one of these bows?

Whenever he wanted to a bowhunter could -

1) Draw and put the bottom limb against their leg and wait as long as it took for the deer to get into range. "Cocked, locked and ready to rock".

2) Draw the bow, aim straight down, let go of the handle and hang the fully drawn bow on a bow hook. When a deer comes along, remove the fully drawn bow from the hook and shoot it. "Cocked, locked and ready to rock".

More technological advantages that a bowhunter can use.
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RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

Yeah, sounds a lot like the DRAW LOK, which I don't think should be allowed either!!!!!!!!

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

Hey Tex where this archery Bows you use ? certainly you jest! that compound stuff ? thats not archery Bows! that stuf was developed in the 60's, CB's been around 3000 years

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

...Try spell check!!!

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

spell ck. what fer my grammer has nothing to do with the non archery gear you use. plus whats a troll doing here ? go back to where you came from

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

OK...I'll quit peeing on your party!!!!! You guys have fun with it!!!!

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

always a troll, glad you went away. getting in over here where it ain't none of yer business. i don't go cause trouble on yer training wheel site![:o][:-]

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

Well, I didn't mean to get in over here where it aint my business and I werent tryin to cause trouble, just voicing an opinion on the subject that the poster had posted.....yuo have yur self a nice day now ya her!!!!

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

If you read it you would see that he is a moderator, so what happens now. looks like he has been a membersince 2000 so he should know better than insult and rant. he insulted every one that has a crossbow or will ever have one on an archery forum and nobody mentioned deleting that one.

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

Ignorant, misinformed people usually answer with your answers. That concept 99 bow is a compound which can be legally used in any State which excludes crossbows. This bow, once drawn to full draw, will hold itself at full draw if hung upside down, only by it's own weight.

Why do all the States starting to open up the archery season to crossbows, ... there are many reasons, but the most prominate one is that they are starting to see that compounds and crossbows are generally equal to each other in giving the archer an advantage (over recurves and long bows .... although the advantages are slightly different). Actually many long time compound shooters find that hunting with the crossbows is too difficult for them (compounds are easier for them to use), but they like to have the choice of using either model bow.

Now lets get to the discriminating factor. You say to let only the disabled use them. This requires Dr's visits, forms to be filled out ($ for the forms, time off work, and travel cost) to be incured to the disabled only. IF you truely believe in this, then lets make all archery hunters need a Dr's forms filled out to hunt with the non-cross bow archery equipment. Along with that, include the State fees for each form to be processed. Oh by the way ...... the USA fedal government has ruled that it is discrimating to make the disabled incure any extra costs which the abled body hunter does not incure.

But then again, the world are learning that the anti's arguement againts crossbows are founded by nothing more then non truths and fear mongering.

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

So you're against blinds that conceal the hunter drawing the bow? Same effect as an xbow. Here's my answer to the draw and hold the bow line of crap.................... Looks extremely difficult to hold that one at full draw for more than say......... 10 minutes! LOL

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

Try hunting without a truckload of corn or apples for the deer to graze on while you wack 'em.

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

I don't hunt with that bow nor have I ever heard of it!!!!!! I hunt out of hang on stands and don't hunt out of stands that conceal my drawing of the bow...I just simply don't see the two being in the same hunting catagory, not knocking it, just don't see them being in the same catagory thats all!!!!!

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

i see your still here and causing unwanted trouble on a CB forum that says no debating. seems this a troll day. you use a compound training wheeled so called bow. you don't like using a real Bow ?

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

I didn't post this!!!!!!! And to answer your question yes I do hunt with real bows, I hunt traditional as well as with a compound.
Regards,
The Troll

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

seems to me your here posting or is it your sin twister"

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

Let it go, fellas. Ain't the first time this road's been travelled, by any of us, and we all know where it leads. Straight into the black hole of ignorance. ;)

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

Since this is more about the idiot that is the "rep" for bowtech, here is a copy of the email I just sent off to the National Sales manager of Bowtech: Anyone else want to contact bowtech and let them know what a great job their rep is doing at promoting their product???


Attn: Jerid Strasheim
National Sales Manager
Bowtech Archery
Dear Mr. Strasheim:
I am going to assume that you have no idea of the post that Matt Mickey from Pennsylvania, a self proclaimed "factory rep" for Bowtech did on Hunting.net this weekend. In response to a thread about crossbows in Pennsylvania he posted the "rant" I copied below. I do not know exactly what position Mr. Mickey holds in your company, but if he is a "rep" as he claims then I am sure you will be as horrified as I when you read his post. A factory representative is responsible for presenting to the public a positive image of both a companies products and the company itself. His post showed not only a distinct lack of knowledge of what your crossbows are capable of, but viciously insulted your entire crossbow customer base. He is entitled to his opinions, but since he is involved in your company, representing ALL of your products, the most that we the public should hear about his opinions on crossbows is that he does not deal with that aspect of the company. I know of quite a few crossbow people, many of whom either own, or have been considering your crossbows, that are disgusted that this is the best Bowtech can do as far as representation.
There is no excuse for Mr. Mickey's "rant" and as someone who has had employees that misrepresented my company if I was in your position I would terminate your relationship with him. Mr. Mickey is both arrogant and ignorant and that is a dangerous combination when your company and its image is at stake. With all of the untapped archery talent available Mr. Mickey could easily be replaced with someone who would better represent Bowtech's interests.
I have personally been involved in the building up of Bowtech's crossbows and damage control due to design flaws as both a dealer and a frequent poster on the public forums. I have probably done more for your crossbow sales than you realize. My insight and guidance has led to a number of purchases of your crossbows from dealers other than me that otherwise would not have happened. To have a "rep" undermine all that I have done for Bowtech insults and angers me more than you can know. Bowtech has a huge financial investment in the crossbow customer and I am sure you are not impressed with having Mr. Mickey be such a loose cannon. I would very much appreciate a response as there are many people on these forums who want to know if Mr. Mickey's attitude is prevalent within the company and the only reason you are producing crossbows is to "get on the band wagon" rather than having a vested interest in the customer. Considering the title of the thread that this was copied to reads: "Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?" you can see that your company's position is now in questions due to this one "reps" ignorance.
Thank you
Sincerely
David Wilkins
Manager
Wyvern Creations

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

I know Jerid and John Strasheim and I seriously doubt that they would knowingly tolerate having anyone idiotic enough to post anti-bowtech product rants whilerepresenting Bowtech or Stryker on their payroll. Don't be surprised at anyting you see posted on crossbow forumsby the "It's all about me andmy bow season" anti-crossbow trolls. Thisguy said nothing that we havenot seen orheard a thousand times. Thanks, David, for calling this guy out. As a Bowtech and Stryker/Desert Stryker fanandpromoter,I, like tons of others, will continue to let people know the truth about crossbow inclusion in bowhunting seasons. Virginia, like quite a few other states, is a prime example of the good that crossbows can bring into a stagnant hunting situation. That's the proof states like Michigan and PA need in order to make logical decisions and not rants from folks that you would expect that from.

Tom Butler

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

Matt is a good guy. He's one of the comparatively few people are on these forums that I would truly like to spend a week hunting with. I'm not going stab someone I consider a friend in the back with an e-mail, so count me out of your vigilante campain.

"I disagree with him so I'm gonna do my damnedest to have him fired." A little too Al Sharpton-ish for my blood anyway. Hopefully, the powers that be at Bowtech are a little more compassionate than that and will simply give him a talking to about publicly airing personal opinions that aren't in the interest of their full line of products. Nobody... N-O-B-O-D-Y... deserves to be fired simply because I don't agree with them.

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

WOW I say WOW...If anyone from the Bow company of bows I ownwould say something like this I would sell my Compounds and Recurves and Longbow of said companyasp..
This would be like a PSE rep bashing Trad shooters.........I just dont understand why some people are so anel over what type or style of bow you use.....I do but its such a p i s s poor argument it aint worh the sweat of my nads to get into a pee poor argument that wount go no where in the minds of self centerd people........Just remember the world revolves around me and not you type of attitude stinks......

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

I can only speak for myself of course but It's not about whether I ,or others, agree with him or not. It's about stabbing the company's sales efforts in the back by one of its own! Competition istough in this industry and there is no legitimate excuse that I can see to keep someone thatis so incompetent that he does not know, or care, thathe'sturning potential customers away. He's supposed to be doing the opposite of that don't you think?

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

I have yet to see a deer walking around or pics ofdeer walking aroundwithbolts/arrows sticking out of them like I do of compund and trad shooters.....And no Iam not bad mouthing Iam just saying being how I hunt with all 4 types of bows and its a personal observation........

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

I see nobody bothered to cut and paste my other posts on the subject here?

Quite frankly some of you guys are a cowardly sad little bunch. Someone doesn't agree with you or your views and he's an idiot. An idiot who lives and hunts in a state other than you guys wo seem to know more than I do about what we all want here.
:eek:

You guys don't have the balls or the wherewithall to debate or see why I feel the way I do.........just read far enough to see that I don't agree with you and begin an activist campaign to have me removed as a rep?

You know nothing about me, nothing about where I hunt and obviously nothing about what bowhunters in PA want so why is this such a crusade?

CUt and paste my other couple posts on the subject........PLEASE or I will. Read them and understand them beyond "OH My GOD he hates crossbows lets get him!"[:@][:o][:-][:'(]

I do not HATE corssbows, I am NOT anti crossbow. I like crossbows, imagine that! I rifle hunt imagine that! I pistol hunt imagine that! I own 2 inline muzzleloaders imagine that!
Crossbows have a season where they are legal weapons right now. 2 weeks to chase deer all you want.

I simply do not feel that a crossbow is a bow and doesn't belong in PA's archery season for that reason only, so the mob from every other state is gonna make me a target when I'm the only one from here?

All of a sudden a guy with 186 posts knows better for me about how I should conduct myself on HNI when I've been here for almost 9 years and helped put the forum on the map. READ a little closer beyond

"He no likey crossbows, him idiot" and maybe you reading comprehension challenged, want to be the center of the spotlight crossbow crusaderswill understand my point of view.
and since it's different than yours maybe you'll take an extra second to just realize we don't have to agree on everything.

Good lord. Anyone have the balls to just contact me man to man and discuss the issue or are anonymous letters to Bowtech all you guys need?

By the way I'll give Jerid a call on his cell phone and let him know to expect your letters. :eek: Sad really.
Rather than simply debate things on a mature forum level (THIS IS A FRIGGIN FORUM FOR DISCUSSION!) You guys feel the need to ram somebody because your offended that I don't agree with what works for OH.

Sad.

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

There are times that saying nothing trumps doing otherwise. Makes no difference how long or howrecently one starts posting on a forum. The old saying "don't cut your nose off to spite your face" has merit I think. I'm not doubting you being a great guy but your turning potential and existing cusomters away by your words and actions is uncalled for if your job title is as you describe it. Enough of this. I'm out of here and no letters are coming from me to Bowtech. I don't think it's necessary :-(

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

well your opinion is yours so be it. you feel a CB has no place in archery season, i feel that it does. its true i don't live in Pa. but if i was to hunt there i want to use my CB during archery season. to me i should have that right when i purchase a hunting lic.

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

Well, I am sending this letter. The title of this thread alone is enough to warrant at the very least a reprimand from Bowtech and an apology from you...but obviously that is not going to happen. You have no clue about how crossbows really perform, and a sad missconception of those that use them. And you have done a tremendous disservice to Bowtech who is still trying to get past a trigger issue and rebuild their reputation in the crossbow industry. Now, as a Bowtech crossbow dealer, I have to deal with the potential that people feel that Bowtech reps dont care about crossbow people???? See...your "rant" went a bit further than PA...it hits mine and every other crossbow dealers business. Hate to say it, but by reping for Bowtech, you are supposed to HELP me, not make it harder to sell Bowtechs product.

"This is NOT archery hunting fellas and I don't really want to hear the crap about compounds being not much less than a crossbow"

" but will only say that I will NEVER be in favor of X-Bows in the regular archery season"

"IF you want to participate in the archery season simply pick up one of these super easy to learn and master compounds I keep hearing about and welcome aboard"

"please allow us to add another couple hundred thousand don't have the skill to use a "Simple" compound hunters to our season"

All of these clips are your words...and they are insulting to anyone who uses a crossbow...physicaly limited or not. If this is how you feel then you need to work for a company that does not make crossbows or keep your mouth shut.

""I disagree with him so I'm gonna do my damnedest to have him fired."

Not my call, but I would think that the people who hired him would like to see what a bang up job he is doing promoting their PRODUCT!! Note I said PRODUCT...that means that he should not be doing anything that could hurt the sales of ANY Bowtech product. I dont see where his "rant" did anything but hurt Bowtechs image.

"Anyone have the balls to just contact me man to man and discuss the issue or are anonymous letters to Bowtech all you guys need? "

Call me anytime...and you can note that I signed my name to the letter....I was NOT being anonymous. Debating with you is a waste of time...you have said just that. However, I would LOVE to debate with you and Jerid about how great a job you did to instill confidence and a positive image of Bowtech to the crossbow customers that they are trying to sell their product to

Wyvern

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

Looks like we had a good day! Day after the fourth and everyone enjoys the freedom of speech for sure!!

Only thing I can add for Matt is PA is messed up compared to most states. I think the DNR over there has to be one of the worst for game management. Most of the guys have some of the hardest times finding spots to hunt, people are fierce to keeptheir hunting spots. There are several states that show CB's wont affect deer at all, only thing CB's affect is vertical sales. Sure, a few guys will run out and think they have a magical deer killer, but most will give up and stay with their rifles after one or two seasons. The main impact comes when the guys that use vertical make the switch to horizontal, thus impacting the sales, which is the real issue with CB's. As more and more vertical companies make their own or buy CB makers the debate will slowly die IMO.

Hope all pans out withMatt and his boss. A guys needs to be careful what hepost, more so when he represents a company.Butthe guy may have a wife and kids and no heated post would make me want to puta kids roof and belly on the line over a forum debate! Hope your boss post on forums and knows that 95% of it is just hot air.

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

Exactly (Except for one thing you have to put the word PENNSYLVANIA in this statement "you feel a CB has no place in archery season".......and you should have the right to say so and I respect your opinion.

Not sure how many different ways I can say it........I'm not anti crossbow, I'm sure it works just fine in other states and I support your desire to use it or your use OF IT. I support the use of CB's in PA's general deer firearms season I simply do not see it as a good fit for PA based upon it's function and the current state of bowhunting and it's season here.

I'm not trying to tell anyone in Ohio, or Wisconsin or Texas or the dark side of the moon how or what they should use in THEIR states.
I only know what I know from 23 years of growing up and bowhunting here in a state with 1,000,000 hunters and I do not see a CB as archery gear by my own personal definition and experiencethat belongs in our archery season.

If you guys think I'm somehow damaging Bowtech's sales potential of crossbows in other states because I don't support their use in PA's archery season , man you are looking way too hard.

One more time:

I Like crossbows, I'm not anti crossbow, I may HUNT with a crossbow this year on archery club grounds (In our rifle season), I support their use by disabled individuals for any season in PA.........just because I don't view them as a "bow" when compared toeven the most technologically advanced compound,I'm somehow Darth Vader.

I'm sorry I offend you because I don't believe what you believe. OH well.[&o]

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

"This is NOT archery hunting fellas and I don't really want to hear the crap about compounds being not much less than a crossbow"
"It's not a bow and is not an equal."
"IF you want to participate in the archery season simply pick up one of these super easy to learn and master compounds I keep hearing about and welcome aboard."
"Crossbows might be a viable TOOL for management in a state where there are low hunter numbers yadda yadda "

You are full of crap and you are back pedaling...

Wyvern

RE: Bowtech ... do all their reps feel this way?
 

"If you guys think I'm somehow damaging Bowtech's sales potential of crossbows in other states because I don't support their use in PA's archery season , man you are looking way too hard."

Actually, you are completely blind because I am inNew Hampshire and I now know what a Bowtech rep now thinks about the productthat the company herepresents makes and the customers of that product. If thiswas strictly a PA thing, then I should have never heard about it. I can only hope that your boss can knock some sense into you and make you see that if you have any negitive opinions on the product that the company you rep for makes that you either keep your opinions to yourself or go work for a company that makes nothing but product you like...

Wyvern