Is it just me
 

or due some of you guys/gals go thru the same thing,what Iam trying to say is when it comes to Bows i.e Trad(as you see it),compound,crossbows I have no issues.My bows are set up pretty much with in a hour or so after I buy one,I have arrows flying right on and dont need to do any changeing of anything or tweeking everything is set just right.and I have no shooting form issues.....I dont need to tinker with arrow weight,brace hight,rests,sites,cams or strings.Everything is just there for me...granted I'am like few of you that have bowhunted forover 20 yrs and have my needs down to a tee.I just go out and shoot my targets and everthing just falls in place......SO is it the speed freeks that have most of the issues or is it just people that justdont understand arrow flight.......OR is it that Ivebeen shooting bow long enough that it isjust a givin/natural thing to understand the pincibles of shooting the bow.....If it is'nt broke way try to fix it......

Just something thats been on my mind for a long time.....

RE: Is it just me
 

I imagine that alot of people dont understand and/or have the knowledge need to be able to put together a setupwithout at least some tinkering to get it right, but in my case its more or less curiousity, and the enjoyment of tinkering, I guess you could even call it a hobby

I agree that if you know the basics of arrow setup that it really shouldnt take that long to put a setup together that works good, and I agree with the point of "dont fix what isnt broke" and in general I dont, but I personally like to tinker beyond what is presently working, just to see... but until(or if)I find something that works better, I always stickwith whats working at the time...

I'm the same way with loads for my firearms, I have a load worked up for my .270 that gives me consistant 3/4" groups at 100yards, thats beyond excepable for a hunting round, and thats what I use, but I still play around with different components, just to see if I can maybe come up with a little better...

I have a target hanging on my wall with an 1 1/4" group that I shot at 400yards with my 22-250 too and some would say that with that kind of accuracy there isnt any reason to work up any more loads for it, but I still mess around with that round too(with a different set of dies, I aint messing with my "good" setup :D)... and again,itsnothing more than for the enjoyment of doing it


I will saythough that once I get a bow or gun setup that I very rarely ever mess with that setup again unless I find a better arrow or load combination that requires it, although I do make changes here and there my experimenting usually always envolves the projectile, not the weapon




I'm pretty much the same way with everything I do, I have to know how everything works and I'm always looking at ways to imporve and/or modify things...
youd be hard pressed to find a machine in my garage that hasnt been messed with and has at least ONE modification done to it ;)

RE: Is it just me
 

Mybe thats one of the reasons I am getting into reloading......

RE: Is it just me
 

Speed freaks are born tinkerers. They are the kind of people that can be starving but stillfind issues in a bowl of beans. ;)

Not to mention that when you're pushing the raw edge of your equipment's capabilities, you're always going to have issues. It's the nature of the beast.

RE: Is it just me
 

But once youve met the raw edge/bows max there is nothing more you can do to the point of total failer..as far as arrow weight and speed goes....and if you put cat wiskers on and want to regain the fps you reallycant because you haveall ready have met the bows max thus creating failer if you try to gain again..as far as sites and releases go that justa preferance of shootersbut they have total limits too......
Once youve met the bows total max operaton abillities there is no tinkering in the wourld that will change anything....
I mean you go buy a 70# bow that has a failer limit of 320fps,you then put on a D-loop,site, peep,rest you get arrows the lightest that are exceptable including nock,fp and vains and you meet the total max performancewhat else is there.....youve met the max that bow can do....And it can all be done in a hour or soof buying the bow at a good shop or by yourself......

RE: Is it just me
 

strive for efficiency and accuracy...


for me its not about the fastest ormost powerful, its about making it the best it can be...
any reloader will tell you that the fastest, most powerfulround isnt usually the most accurate, theres a "balance point" somewhere in between where speed and accuracy combine into what could be called the most "efficent" that a round can be, finding what componants and/orcombination of componants that make that happen is the challenge, and where the fun lays for alot of guys...
there may be several setups that work good, you may think you have the best setup possible(or a "good enough" setup)only to discover that some slight alteration turns out to be just a little better, you never know unless you try...

althougharrow building is alot more limited in what you can do with them IMO itsbasically the same, maybe a different broadhead, different vanes/feathers, ormoving some weight front or backwill give you just a little better performance than what you have... in vertical bows theres an almost endless amount of bow/arrow componants and tuning you can do to make the bow/arrow setup the most efficent it can be, but you'll never find out unless you try... and IMO thats were alot of the funs comes from

once I find a good setup or two my tinkering usually slows down quite a bit, but I'm still always on the lookout for things to try, maybe a new broadhead will come out, new/different fletchings, nocks, inserts, new bullets, powders, it never really ends... :D

RE: Is it just me
 

You're not taking maintenance into account. When you are skating on that raw edge, then things are a lot more apt to go wrong, and in a hurry. Everything has to be much more precise, and small changes in adjustment are almost instantly apparent and need correction. It holds just as true for archery gear as it does for, say, aIHRA drag racingmachine vs the family SUV.

The idea that you can set up a bow right up there at it's peak performance leveland forget about it is just not correct. It takes consistent, nearly constanttinkering to keep it there.

Now, if you back off that 320 fps max to about 250 fps, then things get a good bit more relaxed. It's closer to a 'set it and forget it' deal. You're getting closer to having an SUV than a dragster. An SUV isn't glamourous, but it's a lot more reliable over the long haul. ;)

RE: Is it just me
 

Once the bow has met it max and has been set upright the rest is up to the person to learn to shoot it.Form and Accuracy.

RE: Is it just me
 

I don't know if it is necessarily true. I take a string material that can give you awesome speeds and use the qualities of the string material to yield good speed with low creep and low noise. I also bought a speed compound and extracted the most speed with a moderately weighted arrow set up. I can still pull 70 but I bought a 50/60 lb bow and extracted the qualities (mostly an efficient cam system and low brace height) to give me what I wanted. However, when I started I was very impressionable and started with the ruddest, fastest cams on my first bow using the lightest aluminum arrows that were available. I think much of what you say James is true for many that just start out but I think intellect starts to creep in and straighten things out, or I hope so anyways.

RE: Is it just me
 

Iam not saying anything about maintenance,thats just a gimmypart of it,i.e bushings,axles,bearings,strings,D-loops,fletching,nocks,servings that comes with the territory ofbeing maxed out or not being maxed out...
Bows come from there company with a set max limit witch can be met right away....Now if you talk motors thats a whole differant deal....They dont come with a setmax Hp...

RE: Is it just me
 

Ranger, there is accuracy and then there is 'accuracy'. I got taken to task on another post because I don't get all wrapped around the axle about making sure the crosshairs are aboslutely, positively plumb on a (bow) scope. Then the poster showed a picture of his 50 yard, benchrested group. I have to admit it was remarkable. But, I don't shoot at deer 50 yards away and I sure as heck don't shoot at them with my bow benchrested. I'm after consecutive hits in a 3-4" circle at 30 yards with an offhand bow. He wants his bolts touching at 50. Neither is wrong, we just have different standards for our (different) expectations.
I currently load a dozen and half metallic cartridges ranging form 17 Rem. to 45/70 (handgun). Same thing there. Some folks will 'show you the paper' of their reloading efforts. And I respect that. I don't go chasing minute of ant's ass just to show that it can be done. I'm after hunting accuracy; which can vary depending on what the target, and the gun, is. One can work up a load to max accuracy of a rifle or handgun by handloading but not all firearms are capable of minute of angle...much less minute of ant's ass. I also find that the folks that don't hunt all that much are the same folks that tend to obsess over accuracy. It becomes 'their thing'. Much easier to show the paper.... than the fruits of hunting.
BTW, you need any help handloading, give me a holler. I'm just up the road. Can save you lot's of wrong paths with my hard earned experience and have consierable print resources at my disposal. It's a great hoobby. I owe that to the man that got me started, who has since passed on. TC

RE: Is it just me
 

Well said.......Accuracy dosnt come from maxing a bow out,thats why Ive been beating myself up with this fps deal..I just find that alot of people are causing there own problems tinkering(as they call it)with there bows.Granted when I use the word tinkering Iam talking about the bow its self,they start moveing limb bolts in and out(with out marking them from factory)trying to get more speed or less poundage then start complaining about cam/cams not rolling/caming over right then they start having serving problems,bushing problems and then blame the bow,not realizing that they now have two limbolts that are not set right and now its the bow that must be bad and try to blame the mfg.
Then you wounder why people cut down other bow Mfg,when the problem started after they bought the bow,then there is the ARROW dosnt fly right thing,I wont go there;)............

When I start to reload Iam sure I will have 10 thousand and some ?.Ive got my powder choise's figured out for starting.I have a Rock crusher press kit still in the box never opend.It will be acouple weeks yet,I want to build a room in my basement before I start....

RE: Is it just me
 

Ranger, when did you quit smoking? LOL!:D

RE: Is it just me
 

Jan 2nd is it showing.....:D

RE: Is it just me
 

Rassin frassin dang didley friggin! LOL!
It's ok, keep at it!

RE: Is it just me
 

Venting or not smoking or both :D:D:D.....

RE: Is it just me
 

James, I think there is two people in this group. Some like to tinker and understand what they are doing and just want to kill time and maybe get better in the end, I like to do it and I think KLS is like that to. Then there are the speed freaks or just play screw ups that like Aurthur said could be starving and finding fault in the beans. Some people are green and have to master the learning curve. Then there are some you could set up a CB for and they would screw it up and say they are just trying to improve it.

You will enjoy reloading. I have a .204 Ruger H&R single shoot that I am getting ready to start playing with soon. I am getting ready to order a RCBS case trimmer and a nice scale. The case trimmer was what made me put it off last time, was tired of using a guys from work. But making your own loads is really rewarding. Best I had was 3/4" at 100 yards with five shots. That was 28 grains of 4895 and 40 grain Vmax. When I get going again I plan on using Reloader 10X and alot of guys are liking the berger bullets. Have you been to www.midwayusa.com yet? They have some really good prices on stuff IMO.

RE: Is it just me
 

I would like to think your not referring to me in this post cossack, but I know better..;)
http://www.excaliburcrossbow.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20635&postdays=0&postorder =asc&start=15

Today I shot 4 rounds at the range, hunted for 2 hours, and obsessed about accuracy for the remaining 21 hours (probably obsessed while I was hunting to:)).. Did the same thing yesterday and the day before, going to do the same thing tomorrow, and the next day....
Cossack, as usual you are being a horses a$$, there is no disputing a level scope, it's easy, free,fast and it's just common sense.
Cut the crap, your stabs are growing old.

RE: Is it just me
 

Hey Cossack!! I started out w/ a $9.95 Lee Loder for .218 Bee and $1500 later was close, lol. What the hell loads are you using for 17 Rem?? Never could get same accuracy as factory loads in that booger and believe me,I tried ALOT of stuff. Won't bore you w/ my successes w/ the other calibers, suffice to say it wasn't pilot error, lol [stolen from Dan Miller, lol]

RE: Is it just me
 

Both James, bitch all you want if it helps, we'll support you..............between pokes at you! LOL!

RE: Is it just me
 

Seems ol' cossak is getting here as well as at another place.

RE: Is it just me
 

You know I can handle all the pokes you can give me[:o],I remember when I 1st came to this site.[:@].Ouch,but understood...
I just needed to open this can because to me people want to make it harder then it really is,granted when you get into IBO and 3-D shooters the tinkering with sights and rests,arrows is a big factor to hit the X for top score or to shoot arrows out too 50-100yrds hopeing to get a 10 for 10 in center.
I was at a shoot last spring and a IBO shooter was showing me his setup with the mico adjust site(textonic or something)then pulls out a computor printout that he had made forall the fine adjustments for fps/yrds and arrow weight just to fine tune his sight...WOW I thought,things have changed....
So its not like Iam blind to what people do its just the amazment at what lenghts people try to go and end up with bigger problems.[:o]

Jason are you thinking aboutgetting the RCBSdigital scale that you can save your powder info in [X(]....That would be one of my big investments if I really get heavy into reloading...Right now Iam going to try and keep it simple till I get the hang of it......I have heard that Berger bullets are hard to work with when it comes to certain loads and calibers....I guess it could have to do with what powder they are useing too.....But I know Zero about reloading,well not really zero but close..:D

RE: Is it just me
 

I guess you are talking about the geeks. These guys have just taken the sport that we all love and turned it into a computer game. Are they the ones you are talking about?

RE: Is it just me
 

And others.....;)...

This is a hyp....
Here is one example.A guy sets his bow to 70lb's(so he thinks)andis shooting a 345 arrow but cant get past 282 but should be getting 305,then he changes arrow rest because that has to be the reason,,nope still slow,well ithas to be thearrows then.lighter arrows(all things he has been told to do)and cranks the limb bolts down, now he is in the state of dryfire,the bushing goes out the serving up on cam is goes bad and now it has to be the bowright....well then someone asks what scale did you use and he says my fish scale(the spring type)bingo..He was really at say 64lbs and when he cranked on the limb bolts put it to 74lbs with a 320grn arrow...
If I had a bow set to70lb's and 345 arrows,good rest and getting only 282 I wouldnt need to ask,the poundage is the 1st place I would go...So anyway

By the way I like how that new string works....

RE: Is it just me
 

Big NO on that one!! The wife bought me a 160 dollar Layman digital scale with a built in powder trickler on it. First thing I read on the instructions is the scale must be on in the environment used for at least 24 hours before use. This is a big problem, since I plan on doing most of my shooting at another spot and do my reloading there to. I also have little faith in it since some days it will read a 39 grain blitz king at 39.1 and some days 38.9 depends on the day I guess. The scale is going back and getting a RCBS balance beam, the old tried and true. Maybe I had a bad one, but not willing to play games with trying more. If you read the reviews on digital scales they are mixed some are 100% good and some say the digital are not perfect. When working up a load I want to be nuts on and not wander why my crono reads all over the place.

RE: Is it just me
 

I see where you are comming from on that...more of aheadace then anything else.

RE: Is it just me
 

I must have got off easy, I just bought the Vixen and got as much accuracy as I need from a bow. The second shot I took with it at 40 yards ruined two arrows and 1 broadhead. Last time I ever used the same aimpoint more than 1 shot.

RE: Is it just me
 

I learnd that lesson too,thats why I have the Morrell Magnum 16 spot bag..