First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Unoriginal new kid question; I want to get into xbow hunting on the cheap, what crossbow should I get?

I am a Southwest Virginia hunter looking to extend the whitetail season and fill the fridge for the rest of the year (Archery season is three months in VA, one for rifle). Plus, crossbows are friggin sweet. Cost is a primary concern.

I think I want a recurve bow (simple, light quite etc) but could be convinced otherwise.

The only bow I am coming up with is the Horton Steelforce. 150lb draw weight, 260fps. 130$ package from cheaper than dirt. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/89189-4067-397.html

I have only been able to find a few scattered reviews, mostly good. Anyone with any experience?

Like I said, money is a big concern, but I don’t want to buy junk. I am looking to humanely harvest deer within 50 yards. I will likely be using 20’ arrows with broad heads, so the feet per second will be less then 260. Is that enough umph?

My other option is to save up and wait till just before opening day (Oct 6th, 2007) and get something like a Excalibur Vixen. I can afford the Horton now, and I figure the added practice time is more valuable than more expensive equipment.


Great forum, I am already learning tons of good info. Any help would be greatly appreciated!! Ian.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

You have alot that you will need to learn from this forum, keep posting and asking and you will be on your way to learning. The first thing you need to realize is the CB is not a long range bow. 130 bucks, fifty yards, and humanely do not belong in the same sentence. I know of a few people that have bought that "entry target" CB from Horton and it is a fine little CB for close range low risk shots. Horton has had that on the shelf for a long time and it has been unchanged by the novice engineers the have messed up alot of things in the past. If you get that you will need to keep deer to a max of 20 to 25 yards! The 260 in my opinion is way over inflated IMO. That speed is also with arrows that are hard to find and most of the time you can only get them from Horton directly. Most dealers refuse to sell that arrow for that CB cause guys will buy them and shoot them out of a regular Horton and then have to light of a arrow and then have a dry fire affect. If you put a regular 430 grain arrow in that little CB you will only get a little over 220 FPS. If you want my honest advice save up and get a Excal, and don't go out right away. You are used to one month and now have three. Save up, take the time to practice and get a Excal and then you can make thirty, some guys will say forty yard shots. Then you can be doing the deer the justice they deserve IMO.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Hotburn,

Thanks for the info. 20 yards is a more realistic range, I think you are right. There is a saying in the bicycle industry that is relevant here; Strong, Light , Cheap. Pick two.

Not to beat a dead horse, what a bout a lighter arrow? im not to familar yet with total weights but would using a 75 or 90 grain broad head, thus uping the FPS, make things better or worse when it comes to termianl ballistics?

Again, I am much more familiar with rifle ballistics, and am no master of that subject either! I plan on reading as much as i can on the subject before I make any purchases.

Thanks again! ian.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

That CB that you mentioned uses a 17" arrow and is only 325 grains in total weight with a 100 grain field tip on it. And like I said I think the 260 FPSis a little inflated IMO. So for that CB you will need that arrow. The regular 430 grain 20 inch arrow will shoot but the arrow will stick out past the end of CB and it will make it alot slower. The 325 grain 17 inch arrows are hard to find at shops since they do not like to sell them. Guys that have regular, larger CB's have visions of a lighter faster arrow and then by them light short arrows and try to shoot them and with a too light of aarrow they get a dry fire affect on there CB and break it. So most shops do not like to sell them cause the end up putting alot of guys in trouble that will not admit they went below the 430 grain Horton minimum for regular CB's and then try and blame shop or Horton. Also, if you are new try not and experiment to much at first. Horton recommends 100 grain heads for there products, they did not do this on a coin toss, its what works best, stick with that weight at first and then play if you must after you learn more. Is this the answer you where looking for or did I go down the wrong path. Keep asking, lots of guys in here willing to help.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Also, my point in talking about the arrows is not so much to give you a lesson on arrow weights, but pointing out that one draw back of that CB may be that it will be hard to find arrows for it. Most likely be stuck with mail order only.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Find a used Vixen and it may be the last xbow you buy.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

welcome to the forum. if you buy a cheap xbow.....that's exactly what you'll get....a cheap bow that you won't be happy with. you were saying that you liked the recurve type bows....you can't go wrong with an excaliber. a lot of us have them and are happy with them. i'd keep my eye out for a used excal or save my pennies and get a new one. good luck.:)

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Thanks to all for the quick posts!

Sounds like the steelforce is what it is; cheap.

Any thoughts on the entry-level Xcaliber Vixen? Sounds like its popular with the ladies....

i

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

My neighbor shoots a Vixen and he said it was advertised as a crossbow popular with woman and persons of slight stature. However, he stands 6'3 and is 230 pounds. He likes it because it is shorter and he also shoots it from the inside of one of those chair blinds. He says it is extremely accurate and fast enough for him.He has killed several deer with it and all of the bolts have passedthrough them, even the 170 pound 8 pointerhe got last season. I don't think you'll go wrong with it.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Hold on son![:-]Please take time here, save yerself a lot of frustration. CB's and long yds. over 40 don't go together fer good hunting. I own a Miss Vixen, she is an older carved tip limbed one. She is abit slower than the new ones. Will shoot 2216's 20" 100gr. pt. about 260/265 fps. She is a great CB. New ones would shoot about 275 fps with same setup. When you buy an Excal you invest yer money. Thats right they are well built and have no problem lasting at least 25 years with proper care. You can find used ones and they still retain their value. Mine probably sold new fer $260 bare bow and they will bring at least $240 used. I own 2 Excals and have my Fiddle up fer trade fer another. Anyone have a 97 or newer Vixen or Exocet 165/175 they want a nice Fiddle for?:)

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Go with the Vixen and you can't go wrong, it will keep its value and when you upgrade (almost everybody does) you can get most of your money back.

Martin

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

That steel force is kinda specialized it is good for bow fishing . Lee

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

I just bought a Horton Legend HD 175,and I don't think you could go wrong with It either.Right out of the box I put It together mounted my scope,and took It out to shoot.It was dead on the money,never had to adjust the scope at all.They have them on sale at Bass Pro for $499,with the 4x32 Horton scope.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Neutron, I would not get anything with a DialA range if you are going to use a scope.

Martin

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Martin what Is wrong with the Dial a range?My Horton has It,but when I shot It, I never moved It.Left It on 0,and at 10,20 It was dead on,at 30 It shot about 1/2 to 1 Inch low.I don't think you could ask for anything better,that you take out of the box,put It together and shoot and never have to adjust the scope.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Its hard to keep the scope set, the rope cocker sometimes rubs it and moves it, some people even lock them down to keep scope from getting off. I have a Barnett Revolution with the dialarange and evertime i got it out the scope was off, I finally had to epoxy it down. This is two ways Awshucks postedto fix a horton.

Here's one:
Ok Guys I Shoot a Horton. I have taken the scope off and you can take the rail off under the rail there are two screws attaching the non piviting part to the stock. Remove the back screw and put the piviting part back on. Then put the dial range to where your 20 line works IE 1 or 2. Then take a long screw and put it right through the piviting part into the stock it will lock the Dial range where ever you set it before installing the screw. then just use your multi range and forget the dial range. That seems to be the best solution and it stays solid for ever.. Good luck

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Shoot low boys their riding Shetlands.
Hoyt Pro Staff
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[/align]Here's another: [guy was a Horton guy, til he shot the world record xbow buck and they tried to cheap shot him, lol, now he reps 10 pts]

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Stop it guys. Real question, real answers.

If you own a Horton with a dial-a-range you know this is a serious issue. The first thing I would do, is remove the scope rail and pull the plastic plunger rod. I would then roll a couple small pieces of black tape to jam infront and behind the pivot point. By eliminating the movement via that blasted dial, the bow will be much more fault tolerant.

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For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

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Martin

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

I was thinking of using this older Tasco pro point red dot i have. that way ill be restricted to closer shots, and not over-confidant with a scope.

what type of broad heads would be suitable for xbows that are sub 300fps, like the Vixen ( i am leaning that direction) .

THANKS ALL! ian.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Just ordered a vixen!! Yalls advice swayed me....

Thanks to all who posted. I will post something when i get the bow. thanks again.

ian.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Welcome to the CB club! You will be happy indeed! Did you get a package deal or bare bow? One thing you need that I screwed up on is a stinging aid. It comes with a right stuff package. You can do it with out one, the video shows a fifty year old hunter doing it, but I feel I am going to break me or the bow in the process when I try it. Give us some details. Where and what price? Congrats again!

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Well son ya done right getting the Vixen, i have Miss Vixen and they 're hard to beat![8D]

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

You made a good move. It's hard to favor one bow w/o sounding like you are putting other folks choices down, most of us try real hard not to get read that way, but in this case, the Vixen is way more bow than the Steelforce.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

I ordered the Vixen from ye old archery shop, along with some 100g 1inch Slicks, for a grand total of $379.98 shipped.

I am still unsure about bolt lenght and weight, any input would be super helpful.....

I plan on hitting the local mega-mart and getting some field tips and a target asap.

Next paycheck , I think I will get the 'just the right stuff' pack.

As far as sights go, what comes with the vixen? looks like a basic peep kinda thing. dose the CB come with any kind of mounting rail? I see there is a 'scope mount' accessory sold by Excalibur, will i need that ? Just thinking about what rings i will need to get my red dot on it.

Thanks guys! ian.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

I would tell you to just PM a certain person on here, but he may be getting tired of me sending questions his way, so here goes.

The best CB arrow for that CB are the Danny Miller Gold Tip Laser II's. They are made perfect for Excal's and are top notch for them. You can get the Excal arrows, but they have a front aluminum insert giving them a lower FOC balance. The Danny Miller arrows have a brass insert giving them a high FOC and are top notch. If you need to get your arrows from wal-mart you will need others to help you since I am not familiar with wal-mart arrows. But I have heard of some guys in here using eastons arrows and wal-mart has them. You will need one that has a flat nock and not a half moon nock, I know from what others have said that is important with Excal's release design. Smoke or awshucks will know, but I think you have to also keep your total arrow weight above 370 grains I think.

Stick with 100 grain, they come with it for a reason. I just bought a wal-mart 4*4 block target tonight for 28 bucks. I would say it is great for field tips but think it will wear out fast on B-Heads. a one year target for sure.
You will be happy if you do this! Did you get a stringing aid? If not, you will have to do better then I did with out it, or try not to get as mad as I did when I could not do it with out it! LOL!!

If you want a scope you will need Excal's scope mount. Then once you have that any plain jane wal-mart brand one inch rings will work. Congrats and good luck!

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

A Vixen well its a fine CB from Excal. You should enjoy it greatly, i have one myself. It shines out to 30 yds. Love mine.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Sorry for the delay in posts, but I have had Miss Vixen (love the name smokepole, its official) for a few days now. Amazing....

I have 'loosed' close to 100 bolts so far, groups are decent but not impressive. I think its the shooter.

Of the six 'Excalibur' Easton Firebolt 's I ordered with the CB, I currently have two. Three of the green, light green and black fletched bastards are in my back yard, one with a slick trick broadhead waiting to be found by a bare foot.

I did manage to split one bolt down the middle....felt like a bad-ass for 30 seconds, then the 5 plus bucks hit home.

Its been a blast, and a bit of a battle; more bolts on the way and some....

....."Lessons Learned"

!. Front adjusted sights are adjusted the reverses of rear adjusted sights! (duh!)
2. Hay bales do not stop crossbow bolts.


All in all, Ive still spent less on bolts sighting in Miss Vixen then one good session sighting in any high powered rifle. I love my crossbow.

more to come.....

i

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Glad to hear it! Keep us updated!

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

"I have 'loosed' close to 100 bolts so far, groups are decent but not impressive. I think its the shooter"

Gotta ask: Are you using a rope cocker?

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

no, im not using a rope cocker, pulling it by hand..... could that be the source of some of the inconsistancy? im starting to think that might be the case.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

Pulling the rope back perfectly straight is critical to consistent shots. Just being off a little makes alot of difference on the target. This is a big advantage with the rope cocker. If you do not have one you can mark the string with marker or white out on each side of the rail. Then as you pull back watch the marks and keep the string centered. A string not centered is like a long bow picking a different spot for his nock to go to every time he shoots, and that is bad news for accuracy. The others may also have some pointers on marking and centering string.

RE: First x bow... Steelforce ? Vixen ? Other?
 

To make a long story short, The Black Beauty Smoke has now was owned by a friend of mine that insisted he could cock it straight by hand. Caused me alot of head scratchin and sent what was probably a perfect V-zone back to D. Miller before I figured out what was up. At least mark the string at the rails, but I believe the rope cocker is the answer. You won't believe how much a teeny tiny bit off throws the arrow.