RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Jason and Dave. You guys have your wires crossed and are both miss-understanding each other!
"My hats off to all of you for taking it to the next level and getting "up close" and enjoying the "hunt"!!!" Dave knows its different from rifle hunting, he just doesn't know the similarity to what he does.
Jason, Dave is open minded, give him a break. I am assuming theses are questions that he is asking answers to, not insinuations. I think this is an opportunity to educate someone that hasn't looked into our world.
Dave, our world is often under true attack. Jason is being protective as many of us be. What you have to do as a "bow hunter" is to realize that we crossbow owners also bow hunt when we us a crossbow. By your earlier statement, I have to assume that you think otherwise. What you have to do as a true sportsman is to try hunting with a crossbow to understand what I say. After you spend many a day in the field, hunting with a crossbow you will then be qualified to decide if using a crossbow is bow hunting or not. Don't take offence at this last statement.....at that point your oppinion on the matter will be an knowledgeable one, otherwise it will remain a baseless arguement. Anything else is predjudice. So having said that I own and hunt with compounds as well so I do know both sides of the fence. I also own more than one crossbow and you are welcome to hunt with me with one.
BTW Dave what makes you think using a crossbow disqualifies us from being "bow hunters"?

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Not that its any of my bis, age should have nothing to do with it,I know adults(over 50)that act like juvies and 20yr olds that act like they are in thier 40/50s.
Really dont know why I said that but there must be a reason [>:].

Sorry to hear you use Snap-on tools Dnk :D;)....I use Mac...but only in the hand tool line,I like the snap-on air tools......

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

LOL! You're a punk! or atleast anyone that uses Mac muck does! LOL! I acutally own one Mac screwdriver and it's probably the oldest one from when we had a dealer acutally come around. Also own some Hazet, Gray, Igersol etc. A guy who's been at it as long as I has enough time to toss inferior tools like Mac! LOL! Ok to be honest NO MAC dealer = no MAC TOOLs.

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Wow Don, I had you pegged for Craftsman Tools!:D:D:D:D

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Acutally if I were to do it all again I might go that route. Only problem is that service is what sells the Snap On brand. They come to me at my tool box. Other than that Craftsman tool are excellent!

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

My main line of hand toolsis Craftsman, but the Snap-On and Mac trucks came buy every two weeks. My biggest expense was the Safe & Vault specialty tools like, DrillingJigs, Bore Scopes,2000rpm 1/4" Drills (for Carbide), Diamond Coated3/8"Core Bits, etc.,etc.,etc.... And then the Automotive Specialty Tools.

On top of all the expense of Tools, I had the expense of stocking parts for Safe & Vaults, Automotive and General Locksmithing.:)Which I still have all the Tools and over $20,000 of parts stored in my garage.:)

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

My tool box has a "little" more than that!

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

I'm not trying to say that my tool box is better than yours, but my Specialty Tools are $1,200 and$2,000 ea and I have more than one of ea.:)I had to have oneof each inthe shop and one of each in3 service trucks fully equipped with tools and parts.

Just to give One example, here's one of 3 at $1,200ea,

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Guys, the hunting world overwhelmingly views "bowhunting" and "crossbows" as different. Even this forum differentiates- look for yourself! I am not saying it's fair, just pointing out the obvious.

This was NOT supposed to turn into a debate!!! I hope the MODS dont delete this thread. This is good stuff!

I have NEVER in my life seen anyone carry a crossbow and my questions were sincere. Most, if not all, states do not recognize crossbows as archery, thats why they only allow crossbows for people with a handicap.I NEVER said I support this, I made that clear to anyone with a brain from the beginning.

I have recently dedicated my life to archery hunting, and was just trying to get some honest, intelligent insight. No archery-only hunting ranch (that I know of) allows the use of crossbows, unless you are disabled. Why is this? From the outside looking in, it would be obvious that crossbows offer an unfair advantage! Otherwise the ranches wouldnt care, and theState Wildlife Departments would allow them during "archery" season. That is why I asked.

DNK, you mention my "opinion", I dont have an opinion on crossbows, I dont know anything about them! I made that clear. It appears, by immediately becoming defensive, that crossbow hunters get a lot of attacks. You also mention"remain a baseless arguement". Please consider your statement- I NEVER argued anything!

I am looking for ways not to discriminate against crossbow hunters, like everone else does.

I understand the strength of "us vs. them", butmake no mistake- I am NOT the enemy. If you want to alienate me as "one of them", I couldnt care less!I am actually looking for ways to buck the traditional system and allow crossbows on my place- when nobody else will.

I entered into this to get insight, guys. Initailly, it started off well. Looks to be going south, though.I wish it had not taken this turn.

Thanks for all the input.

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Dave, when I used the word "arguement" I meant it in the pure form and it was not used as an attack or defence, just a description. In Ontario it is considered a form of archery by the Ministry of Natural Resources. Many, and I assumed yourself as well do not. That is what I meant as an arguement, a difference of opinion. I am in no way being defensive so please stay and talk or ask questions!

The edit is because I can't spell today!:eek:

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Don that hurts :D,gotta say Ive never been called a punk before:D:D:D.I just liked the feel of the Mac handtools(wrenches) over Snap-on...My home tools are all Craftsman even my tool box.
Besides the snap-on guy is tight with his T-Shirts where as the Mac rep gave me afew T's for nothing.....Bought a 1/2" air wrench from snap for just about 4 hundred no T,where as My 189.00 airhammer I got a T from Mac.

I wanted to shoot my crossbow today but its rainning and snowing[&o][:@].

SORRY I got off topic...................

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Reb, I didn't mean that my stuff is better than your stuff. Infact I would like to have some of your stuff like the borescope and your drill and taps!
Ranger, if Mac came around more when I was an apprentice I would have bought more. I certainly like their screw drivers and wrenches better. There's nothing better than a good hijacking! LOL!
I just replaced a string on my Ultra Tech and it's raining here too so I won't be tuning my bow today. It's string making weather!

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Wow! I know I have made a mistake. Back and forth about tools???

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Dave, wouldn't you say that Compounds have an advantage over Long Bows and Recurve's?

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Sorry Dave, we're a couple of motor heads!

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Yep! My apologies also Dave!

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Sorry also Dave.
Sometimes it just happens.....
Went and p/u my recurve and tried to draw it----Couldnt do it.....P/u my Tikka 30-06 hurt to much to hold it to look thru the scope....p/u the Profusion and it hurt to hold it also but not as much being how I hold it closer to my body...
Just another reason for me to go crossbow Dave.....

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Please note: I said "From the OUTSIDE looking in", meaning I didnt know squat about crossbows except they are not allowed during archery season (except if you have a disability), and they are not considered "archery weapons" on archery-only ranches. I acknowledged I was an uninformed "outsider".

You are not doing much to help bridge the gap between compound bowhunters and crossbow hunters, sir. Whether you want to acknowledge it (or not) doesnt matter, but crossbow hunters are NOT accepted as bowhunters in the hunting community, the hunting regulations, or even this site, for whatever reason. I accurately presume you want to be included and accepted as "bowhunters", but to alienate a compound bowhunter is a mistake. That only hurts your cause!

Do compound bows offer an advantage over long-bows? Of course they do! What kind of question is that???

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Does your Ranch allow all three? So you do admit thatCompounds have an advantage over the LongBow and RecurveBow archers. You think that's fair to them?

That's like saying No Inline Muzzleloaders, just Traditional Muzzleloads on this ranch!:eek:

Well on this forum, most of the guys shoot Vertical Longbows, Verticle Recurves, Verticle Compounds, CompoundCrossbows and Recurve Crossbows, And you are saying they are not Archers?

Why don't you admit that you just want a Specialty Ranch to satisfy your Ego?[:'(]

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

For the most part, you all seem like great guys that love to hunt. No apology needed!

This is VERY important to me as I just LITERALLY bet the farm on archery. I have no interest in dragging out a lengthy emotional debate about "crossbow hunters are not bowhunters", there are other forums for that!

Personally, I am leaning towards allowing crossbows at myRanch, which NOBODY does. I am starting to believethis is just "fear of the unknown" and ignorance on the part of,well, everybody! And I am a good example! I, unfairly and ignorantly, believed that crossbows offered an unfair advantage over compound bows. The laws say theydo. The ranch owners say they do. Even this site has separate "bowhunting" and "crossbow" sections. So you can see why the deck is stacked against you.

But, hey!We are all open minded and willnever see eye to eyeon everything. Please dont alienate me, guys. I just asked "Why".

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

MODS, Please be patient! There is some good stuff going on here and I think it will benefit everyone. Keep it clean, everyone!

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Dave you said LAW....just remember these laws were more then likely put on the books by folks that have(or had)a hard time excepting the crossbow as a bow and more then likely have disliked the crossbow from day one because they were not educated in crossbows.(for the most part).

This will(the crossbow)be excepted by most hunters as time goes on just like Trad shooters accepted the Compound and Black Powder shooters have accepted the In-line Muzzle loader...
Education is the main thing......But there are thos that will allways fight or cry about it.....
In my 34 yrs of real hunting(32 deer hunting)I have never disliked crossbows......

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

RebelHog,

I am just getting started with my archery-only ranch. After quite a bit of research, I discovered a few things:

* I could make twice as much $ if I allowed gun hunting.
* No archery-only ranch allows crossbows, except for disabilities.

I, admittedly and incorrectly, figured there was a reason for the "no crossbow" policy everywhere. So I didnt question it. I figured 100% of the other ranches couldnt be wrong. At this point, I am radically thinking outside the box (as my therapist has told me I do for 20 years) and considering crossbows on my ranch.

As far as your comment about "fair to them", just so there is no confusion between us, sir- I dont care about fair! I was a police officer for too long and KNOW "fair" doesnt exist. I consider "reasonable", not "fair".

"To satisfy my ego"? Thats funny! You stumped me there, I dont know how to respond to that one. Keep 'em coming, though. (Ha! Ha!)

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Guys, this statement alone is the tie-breaker. This man has a business and he also has an open mind. He is asking to have his eyes open so lets not put him on the spit over the fire.

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

I'd like youns to see the PMs between Dave and myself so here goes. I really think guys like Dave are the link between "us and them".

Inbox From: Montana Dave To: Dnk Date: 4/1/2007 10:54:27 AM Subject: RE: your post
DNK,

I am ON YOUR SIDE!!! Why cant some people see that?No apoligy needed. I am just a bowhunter trying to expand my interests.

I was a little hard on you in my last post. It just got to me that you said I had a "baseless arguement" when an "arguement" was the farthest thing from my mind. I dont have an "opinion", as I dont know anything about crossbows.

I do believe you are being discriminated against, but not by me. Matter of fact, if you ever want to come to Texas, let me know. We have a 2,000 acre ranch (free range) full of deer that have never seen a crossbow, either! (Ha! Ha!)

Thanks.

Inbox From: Montana Dave To: Dnk Date: 4/1/2007 1:13:49 PM Subject: RE: thread
With you??? Thats an understatement! I am going to PROMOTE crossbow hunting at my place. To alienate compound bowhunters is a mistake! Archery is archery! Isnt that what crossbow hunters say they support? Crossbow hunters are treated differently, for whatever reason.For that, I am sorry. I dont agree with it- but it is true.
Thanks for being open minded and I will continue to do the same.
Dave

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

I think most folks with negative opinions about crossbows would change their minds if they just got a chance to shoot one. My friend in Texas has a compound that shoots faster than my Vixen. We have been planning a trip together with our kids to a ranch in East Texas since last season, but our schedules have not worked out. The ranch we are going to had a no-crossbow policy until my friend told the guy that his bow was faster than my xbow. He thought a crossbow was more akin to a muzzleloader in performance than a bow. When we go this year, it will be during rifle season, but the guy asked if I could bring the xbow to show him how it shoots. Hopefully he will change his mind and allow xbows on his ranch.

This crossbow is my first experience with archery, and coming over from the world of firearms, I have had trouble understanding this bow vs. crossbow debate. To me, they both use strings to launch an arrow, so where does the argument get started?

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: Montana Dave

That's great new's!:)

You got that right! I'm retired from the Sheriffs Dept.

That's the way I took it, but maybe I'm wrong!

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Seems pretty civil to me.. My perspective on this splits when you speak of the legal aspect of crossbows. Where I live the law in no way what soever differentiates between a recurve, crossbow or compound. It is hard to get a feel for another guys perspective when his or her point of view has already been corrupted by an outside source, likea government agency or piers.
I shoot a crossbow, and I am indeed an archer.

When I shoot a compound I know my arrow is going faster, quieter, straighter and was released from nothing but modern technology, and my trigger finger. I don't see that as an advantage over my crossbow though, just different.
You have a good perspective on things Dave, seeking out an animal and keeping it at a short distance to harvest it with an arrow takes a skill that exceeds anyargument a rational person would have.

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

A xbow is not the magic tool that people think it is. There bulky in the woods, slow to cock after a shoot ( a person with a regular type bow can get off 3 to 4 shoots or more by the time i can get the xbow loaded and ready to shoot). I'm 63 oldwith a screwed up shoulder and thats why i shoot a xbow, after shooting recurves and compounds since i was 16 i ca'nt no more. I still love being out in the woods and with my family and friends and no one is going to stop me or change my mind about what weapon i use. You do'nt like it thenhunt some place else. Handle it, deal with it. Rich

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

[/align]People are narrow minded as a group but a little more flexible one on one. Dave my hat is off to you for having the guts to come to this forum and ask the questions you are. I believe you are trying to be open and honest in your persuit of the truith. So here it is as I see it. Who cares?!!!!!!! Some people hunt with recurve or long bow. Others use compound. Still others[the ones you are talking with now] use crossbows. The animals don't care what they are shot with. They would prefer not to be shot at all. We owe it to them to use what we are best with. I use both in different situations. As a land owner i would be more worried about the guy that is willing to rule out a weapon based on some idiotic predjudice. I use both because I care about the lives i take. We all should. We need to in order to promote the sport of archery hunting. Every archer is under fire by the nonhunting community.

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Montana Dave: Actually, xbows are legal in ONE FASHION OR ANOTHER in 47 states. Cannot be used in Oregon, New Mexico or New York even by handicapped. New York claims to allow them for handicapped, but one cannot use a normal trigger, but must use a blow-pipe device in lieu of trigger. Re: the 47, this includes handicapped only, gun seasons only, and parts or all of archery seasons. At the present time, there are about 13 states that either have an xbow season or allow them in part of archery season, or consider them archery and allow them the whole season. Arkansas is one of the latter, [my state] and about 15% of our bow hunters use xbows. They have been legal in all of archery here for close to 30 years. There are about 500,000xbow hunters in North America. There are a multitude of rumors, half truths, out right lies and misconceptions about them floating around.I commend you on your search for data, you are what's known as a "fence sitter" in the xbow debates, and quite frankly open minds are what we seek. There are a dedicated 10 % that are deathly against them for alot of reasons, none of which make much sense to the informed, and there are no statistics to warrant such paranoia in the states that allow them. I would also like to point out that we as xbowers get alot of grief from that afore-mentioned 10%. Guys tend to take things wrong and become defensive because they have been there done that before. Most of these same arguements or concerns were brought forth w/ the invention and eventual inclusion of the compound bow. Then again w/ all the bells and whistles that went w/ them, like high let-offs, releases ect. We live in a time that has seen more changes to archery than any other period in history, xbows are just the latest to become popular.

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Mountain Dave that is not necessarily so. Yes crossbows are usually in seperate collums on forums, but that is mostly to please the ratical archers that claim their way is the only way to hunt and always attack crossbows. These same people will constantly spout untruths and misleading information to try and sway the uneducated that crossbows give an undo advantage wich is not tru when compared to the compound vertical.


Again, it is the people that DO NOT WANT ANYONE else in the woods competing for their possible deer that fight to keep crossbows out of the woods. This is not based on advantages of the crossbow,, but on the fact that they do not want anyone else in their woods (even if it is public lands). Governments tend to lean on the sides that cry the loudest becasue they are afraid of maybe loosing some possible votes.

I could go on for hours and pages with data (or evidence) to prove that the vertical compound and the crossbows both give advantages to the hunter over the longbow and reccurve bows. Although this advantages are different, they are generally equal to the hunter, just that some situations will favour one over the other (sometimes favour the compound and another time the crossbow).

I believe that DNK mentioned our opinion as in your statement came from the woods which you choose to use in the orginal post. When you state something like you did claiming that crossbows were not archery (this claim is not new to us). we believe that becasue you stated it like you did, that you believed it (thus why it would become your opinion). No problem with your opinion or stating it like you did as long as your willing to hear opinions from the other side of the anti's war. Again this opinion is not new to us, as the anti's fight against the crossbow has mislead many people to believe the same thoughts as you have put forth. Again I do not believe that you were actually trying to cause harm in this thread, but only a misguided archer from propaganda from the anti's.

Hope this helps you a little better.

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

I believe that the reason most archery only ranches do not allow crossbows is to not get the few anti's upset and try to blacklist the ranch with fellow vertical bowhunters

You see, a small group of anti's actually carry quite a bit of weight in thier words (either hold top post on forums, archery clubs or writers with archery magizines) and have for years mislead the uneducated into believeing crossbows were as effective as guns, which of coarse they are not. They are just as effective as the vertical compound, no more, no less.

If you were to open up your reanch to crossbows, I bet in no time, you would have more then a few vertical archery clubs bann against you, telling all of their members to not ever use your services. This is the sad truth, but it would happen in a short time. But this anti 's threat is lessening as more and more people are learning the truths about crossbows. If you do open your ranch to crossbows, you would be opening your ranch up to a vast number of hunters that is not serviced by ranches (like you yourself even stated). This group size will only get larger and larger as more and more people learn the truths and their governments change the rules to include crossbows. Just look at what has happened in the last 5 years. How many States have changed to include crossbows. The truth is starteing to win.

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Well I am home from work and will try and give you the answer you have asked and a explanation for my initial questions. I will say that in my first responses I was trying to be civil, and actually as I was asking questions I was thinking I want to do this In a way Grumpy Tom would be proud! LOL!! So here it is and I mean this all with good intentions.

When I read this I was willing to give you a honest answer and help you out with a open mind and not wanting to take offense at all. I was behind you and on your side.

Will be totally honest with ya. When I read this line my ears turned read, my lip curled and I said to myself "while you little SOB, you have nothing against us, you just think your better then us, thats nice!!" That quote may sound ruff, but being honest as to what I felt after reading that line.

Now bear with me, I am, going to be honest and tell you my thoughts. I was thinking, "not only do you think you better, you are obviously uneducated in the capabilities to a Crossbow. This is one of the major myths about CB's that you have stated in reply post as facts, but they are untrue. A CB may come out screaming the first five yards, but they run out of gas real fast. Most responsible archers, and from here on out when I say archers I include CB's, will not take a shot past 35 yards. Actually anything past thirty is a gamble, and anything past 35 is just plain stupid. Are there CB people that shoot farther? You bet there are, and there are probably just as many long bow and compound archers that do the same. Long range is a lie about CB's spread by the pope and young and others that are supported by the long bow and compound companies that are afraid of sales being lost. They are lying and they know it, but money is there motive and not hunters. A accomplished CB archer has to learn and master the 20 yard game just like a compound archer. I am a twenty yard only guy, just cant get comfortable past that.

From what you have read from others I am sure you have the answer to this, I will answer this later about me.

I will answer this part right now, and that reliability and dependability are my factors. I chose in-line over side lock and flint lock for the simple reason I need that bullet to go down the barrel when I want, not when it decides to finally go off when my shot may have changed.

Hopefully after this and some of the other post you can understand how much less of a challenge there is.

I will be honest with ya, I said this as bait! Wanted to hear you say Compound. Sorry I was baiting, but that was my intentions.

Another post I maid, but just wanted to say it how you said it so you could see how it feels. I know I sure did not like it!!

When you replied with this it confirmed you did in fact enjoy it as much as me and immediately whet on the defense, it is easy to do isn't it! Also, DNK has that job in the bag, he does better then most of us.

This my friend is a lie that the anti CB Pope and Young has been able to make you believe. Currently there are eight states that allow the CB and do not limit it to the disabled. More and more states are waking up and allowing the CB, but the P&Y are trying to keep it quite and play it down, but the tide is rising and I think there is no stopping it. Here is a pic of the current CB status, it mayend up at the bottom, not sure.There are states that are currently in the process of opening it up and will be on track for 2007 and 2008. So the number will soon be at two digits!

Sorry for all the quotes, just trying to reply and respond to all your comments that I felt I could answer. I will now tell you why I use a CB. When I was fifteen I think, I was nuts about hunting. A friend had a old compound and he sold it to me for 25 bucks! My disadvantage was no one in my family had ever long or compound bow hunted. I had a hard time and dad could see my frustration mounting. So for Christmas I was given my first Horton. I was able to learn fast and hit the target great! But I did not get my first deer until I was eighteen, I needed to learn the 20 yard game, and did. I then continued to use the CB for about five years until a new friend exposed me to tree stand hunting. He used a compound and was willing to teach me. I had the same experience as DNK'sfriend Pype did. Pulled it back at twenty yards and hit the center. Did it several times. But as with DNK's bow, this was set up right so it worked correctly. Had a peep set up and a release so how could I go wrong. But I could not see myself in a stand trying to use it, and pull it back on a deer, which I think is the only advantage a CB has over a Compound. I also thought it would suck to do with alot of clothes on, some call it a challenge, I call it not needed for me. So I stayed with my Horton. I then went out a bought my Martin Dreamcast. I really enjoyed shooting it. But I disliked having to shoot it as much as needed to keep up the form and such. I enjoy target practice as much as the next guy, but I have no desire to be in love with my target in my back yard everyday. I was pretty good with my Martin, but I would still get a few "fliers" now and then, which I considered unacceptable and unwilling to do to a deer. So I use a CB for the fact that I do not have to spend all summer in my backyard to get some what good. My CB is a nock buster plain and simple. I can do it with the arrows that is recommended. I do not have to be bounced around with what someone thinks I should be using, Horton has provided me with a proven arrow, and it works. I know that with 100% faith that when I pull the trigger, or as most compound guys call it, a release, I know where my arrow will go. No BS story from me about my bow being off, of the string must have hit my coat and the excuses go on and on for people that miss. I have total confidence with my CB. I can also say I use it because I grew up in a state that has allowed it for thirty years and proved that what others are saying about the CB is plain lies. Ohio and AR has the record to prove the facts. I am sorry this was so long and hope I have give you a honest and good answer. I will also say sorry once again for baiting you with the compound question, I just wanted to see if you would answer why you choose a "easier" method. Hope you take this post with the way is was meant in good faith.

Jason

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Great map Jason! Red for retarded and Green for good! LOL!

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Hotburn you did good :D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Actually I do not do all the quotes like that for the fun of it, I go through all the trouble of doing that to try and make sure people do not misunderstand my statements. So they know which statement my reply was ment for, less confussion this way.

You map, I think is a little outdated as well. I had heard that BC in Canada was allowing crossbows, but I could be wrong. I went to their site http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wild/documents/h&t_synopsis_06_07.pdf and could not see anywhere where they said you could not use crossbows. They also have a full page set to help you choose your archery equipment, crossbows were listed on that page (page 19).

As what has ben stated, the crossbow world is growing.

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

You can change Nevada from red to blue. They will be legal during "all weapon season" next year. Some progress but still in the stupid rules category.
http://www.ndow.org/about/news/pr/032007_bg_changes.shtm

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Hotburn,

I am just puzzled as to how you couldbe upset about my statement: "I am an avid bowhunting fanatic and chose archery because I like the challenge of archery, up close, etc."

Please help me understand. Man, if that offended ANYONE, you know what.... GOOD!I enjoy getting up close and experiencing the "pure" spirit of the hunt. Why would that cause you to do a "lip curl"?

If anyone would understand, I figured you would.

RE: Why Crossbows????
 

Dave I can't speak for others but the way it was written it made it sound like xbows were a longer distance weapon and not up close like other archery. Again it's a common misconception that xbows shoot 100 yds and we've heard this stuff so much one just jumps ahead to what one is used to hearing. And we've also had many a "not trying to start a fight" threads that were really the opposite. Again xbow guys are pretty much shell shocked on the forums. Your's doesn't seem to be that and it's 1 in a million. We're not used to real questions here. Bear with us during the adjustment period.